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New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits


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8 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Wayne is also developing a crossover as one complete kit so the issue of timber spacings will be dealt with. These are great developments in terms of track building but we all need to remember it is Wayne working on his own and he has another business as well to run. Also he is developing the ranges across multiple scales gauges with an existing product range as well.

 

I know it’s hard but we all need patience. I like others want more but have to sit on my hands and wait.

 

Keith

We also have to remember that these are kits, not bespoke sets of parts. If you can't use the kits to realise your design, you will either have to a) change the design; or b) build your points from scratch (or get someone else to build them).

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41 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

So I guess I've answered my own question: The timbering will only align for certain track spacings and below 50mm some fettling will be necessary. It's relatively easy to work out what those spacings are for straight track but some experimentation/modelling would be needed to work out the spacings for crossovers in curved track.

 

Hi Phil,

 

I strongly suggest that changing the track centres to suit the timbering is not the way to go, and not at all prototypical. The track geometry is usually known first, and the timbering layout designed to fit.

 

For Standard 00 (00-DOGAI) I imagine most users will stick to 50mm (or Peco 2" / 50.8mm) spacing throughout. For crossovers the timbering on these B-7 kits matches quite well as I posted above, and it's just a matter of trimming the vee rails to fit when laying the track.

 

For 00-SF I imagine most users will want to follow prototype practice and use 44.67mm spacing on straight and gently curved track (although that is only a minimum, prototype spacings can be wider). On sharper curves the spacing must be increased for running clearance. The spacings can be established using the dummy vehicle functions in Templot.

 

At 44.67mm spacing in 00-SF, this is the result:

 

00_sf_b7_xover.png.23301f55a18608c2ffd0c0e8519a80b8.png 

 

So you chop 3 whole timbers off one turnout, and use bits of them to extend the timbers on the other turnout. That doesn't strike me as too difficult to do? Curving the turnouts doesn't by itself change this, but increasing the track spacing will do.

 

Or, using say C&L parts, create 3 long timbers to replace the ones cut from the kits.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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I plan to use the kits as a start point (no pun) in creating formations. Previous false starts on my railway, with PECO bullhead points have had reduced spacing but I expect the work required with the kits will be much easier.

I model in 00 standard but think the PECO track spacing is more of a distraction than the 16.5mm track gauge. So, reduced spacing will be necessary.

 

As for crossover kits. Yes, we do need to be patient. However, I wonder how flexible they will be to modification for curved track and reduced track spacing. I wonder if it might be easier using separate points anyway. 

 

Anyway, loads of great advice and good ideas on here. Can't wait to put it into practise. 

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15 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Hello Martin

I'm planning to make crossovers on much tighter curves than Bob (in OO-SF). A straight double track and a straight single track joining and transitioning into three tracks onto sweeping radii of 34", 31.75" and 28.75".

Hopefully I will also be able to curve Wayne's kits sufficiently?

Dave

 

14 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Dave,

 

While you can probably curve the FinetraX kits to that extent, the result is likely to be too tight for 00-SF:

 

00_sf_b7_on_34in.png.7163af7b3a3841e09f3a217335247c19.png

 

Putting the FinetraX B-7 turnout on a 34" radius curve means the inner radius will be down to 504mm (19.9") which is too tight for 00-SF (and very tight in 00-DOGAI). To put crossovers in such sharp curves you need to use longer turnouts such as a C-10 or longer.

 

However, if you can get the crossovers back into the transition curves, it should be doable.

 

Just try it in Templot and see -- Templot tells you what the radius will be.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Dave

 

I believe with careful adjustments and the correct 3 point track gauge, the required gauge widening could be achieved, but this would require careful partial rebuilding. or I guess in this case reverting to 00 gauge 

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These kits are so well thought through and designed it is/will be very easy to adapt then into a bespoke item using a few Exactoscale or C&L parts, and a decent Templot template (plan) 

 

The simple fact is to build these turnouts you have to cut the rail to length, then slide the rail through chairs, end of !! To adapt then you just add/replace a few extra timbers, then slide on a couple of extra chairs. A simple extension to building these kits

 

Anyone sating they cannot get their head around Templot, cannot have visited it recently. joining in this thread is far harder than making a template of either a single turnout or crossover, as the method is automated!!

 

The final hurdle is only obtaining a small number of parts cost effectively. Speak nicely to a track builder !!

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6 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Currently working in CAD for a 00 Gauge B7 crossover @ 50mm spacing (ready for an upcoming Hornby Magazine Article ;) )

1282816303_b7crossover.JPG.9fb43929599a4da89fd9c9cd11e7d938.JPG

 

It's difficult to cater for every single formation, but as Martin says, these are only kits! :)

 

 

This may be a silly idea, but by  adding one or two more long timbers on each half crossing, (and making  all the longer timbers overlength), would it be possble to make a crossing kit adaptable for different track spacings? That is assuming you aren't just about to add chairs to the extended timbers to fix the spacing...

 

Thanks

 

Dave

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36 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Currently working in CAD for a 00 Gauge B7 crossover @ 50mm spacing (ready for an upcoming Hornby Magazine Article ;) )

1282816303_b7crossover.JPG.9fb43929599a4da89fd9c9cd11e7d938.JPG

 

It's difficult to cater for every single formation, but as Martin says, these are only kits! :)

 

 

Now that we've seen the CAD for the crossover, my worries about modification for curvature and spacing look to be unfounded. "A picture paints a thousand words" .... Don't worry, I'm not going to break into song. Mind you, Telly Saveloy managed it without singing.

Anyhow,  crossover kit or separate points with C&L parts, the jobs a good'un. Thanks.

 

As for my Templot limitations, I do regularly go back to it and have another go but my brain isn't wired for that sort of thing. It's not a problem with Templot. I'm the same with most applications. It's just as well I'm coming to the end of my working life so that Templot will be the only application I need to worry about.

 

I'm sure my planning process would be much more successful if I could master Templot. As it is, I'll have to use a bendy stick and pencil.

 

Bob 

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1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Now that we've seen the CAD for the crossover, my worries about modification for curvature and spacing look to be unfounded. "A picture paints a thousand words" .... Don't worry, I'm not going to break into song. Mind you, Telly Saveloy managed it without singing.

Anyhow,  crossover kit or separate points with C&L parts, the jobs a good'un. Thanks.

 

As for my Templot limitations, I do regularly go back to it and have another go but my brain isn't wired for that sort of thing. It's not a problem with Templot. I'm the same with most applications. It's just as well I'm coming to the end of my working life so that Templot will be the only application I need to worry about.

 

I'm sure my planning process would be much more successful if I could master Templot. As it is, I'll have to use a bendy stick and pencil.

 

Bob 

 

Bob

 

Have a look at James' YouTube video 

 a novice talking to novices, plus he is a good communicator

 

I can understand building a track plan is an issue, but a single turnout or crossover is so simple, curving them a little harder but not rocket science

Edited by hayfield
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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Bob

 

Have a look at James' YouTube video 

 a novice talking to novices, plus he is a good communicator

 

I can understand building a track plan is an issue, but a single turnout or crossover is so simple, curving them a little harder but not rocket science

Thanks for that. He does make it look easy so I've subscribed on YouTube and will watch it a few times and have another go.

The trouble it, I watch these videos and tutorials, open up Templot and struggle to remember what I've seen. So, what I plan to do is have it paused at critical points, flick to Templot, carry out the action then go back. What our training department would call "sit-by-Betty".

Thanks again.

Bob

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7 hours ago, RBAGE said:

The trouble it, I watch these videos and tutorials, open up Templot and struggle to remember what I've seen. So, what I plan to do is have it paused at critical points, flick to Templot, carry out the action then go back. What our training department would call "sit-by-Betty".

 

Hi Bob,

 

On the Templot instructional video pages, there is a purple Download button below the video. If you click that, and have Templot installed on the same computer, it will open in Templot's own video player in a separate Window. You can then drag it around in front of Templot and stop and start it as you go. The image quality will also be much clearer.

 

There's a full list of Templot videos at:

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/companion/online_video_list.php

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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48 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

On the Templot instructional video pages, there is a purple Download button below the video. If you click that, and have Templot installed on the same computer, it will open in Templot's own video player in a separate Window. You can then drag it around in front of Templot and stop and start it as you go. The image quality will also be much clearer.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Wow! I've achieved more in this last hour than I have in the last two decades.

Thanks to Martin and Hayfield.

Bob

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Just now, RBAGE said:

Wow! I've achieved more in this last hour than I have in the last two decades.

Thanks to Martin and Hayfield.

Bob

I have a crossover.

 

How many full length timbers would you expect on a typical B7 crossover?

I realise that you probably wouldn't see a B7 crossover on a high speed main line but I'll work with what is available.

Small steps.

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1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Thanks for that. He does make it look easy so I've subscribed on YouTube and will watch it a few times and have another go.

The trouble it, I watch these videos and tutorials, open up Templot and struggle to remember what I've seen. So, what I plan to do is have it paused at critical points, flick to Templot, carry out the action then go back. What our training department would call "sit-by-Betty".

Thanks again.

Bob

 

Bob

 

Have Templot open at the same time, watch a small part then pause the video. Go to Templot and copy what was done. Go back to the video and either watch the part again or go on and watch a bit more, pause then have a go at the next part

 

Plus join Templot club, there are some very helpful people there, providing you are making an attempt to do it yourself they will help out

 

The thing is first just learn how to make a turnout the size and shape you want first. Then add a piece of track first or press the button for a crossover or slip. The basics are very easy.

 

I learned a couple of things from James video that I had not realised were there

 

Any issues PM me

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12 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

I have a crossover.

 

How many full length timbers would you expect on a typical B7 crossover?

I realise that you probably wouldn't see a B7 crossover on a high speed main line but I'll work with what is available.

Small steps.

 

 

Bob

 

A track builders response is, as many as needed until the sleepers on the plain track do not go under the next tracks rail

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This is what I'm aiming for.

You can see that the junction is virtually straight but there a three crossovers, just at the start of the curve.

This should be a piece of cake with Wayne's kits.

It looks like the crossover turnout on the fast line has a straight through road, leading to a turnout on the slow which is curved. I'll have to practise that one on Templot.

 

Anyone recognise the location?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

Quick edit to point out that I am referring to the crossover which is just this side of the gantry.

725022266_NewtonHall1.JPG.98dbec2c7f449bc78b7454ab7c3acca9.JPG

Edited by RBAGE
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1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

How many full length timbers would you expect on a typical B7 crossover?

 

Hi Bob,

 

Everything depends on the traffic. I wish I had a pound for every time I've written that. :) And also to some extent on the prototype company -- the GWR loved timber.

 

In a fast running line -- lots of long timbers. Especially if on a curve.

 

In goods loops and layby sidings -- a few long timbers.

 

In yards and sidings -- very few long timbers, or sometimes none at all.

 

Here's a GWR 1:7 crossover in running lines - lots of long timbers:

 

gwr_7_xover_1200x622.png.4bfb5b9c21c776eb6530ea39f04ac129.png

 

*note the 6ft-6in GWR track spacing to the gauge faces. Which means GWR double track is 1/2" wider spacing than other companies (which have 6ft way between the rails).

 

Here's an LNER 1:7 design for use in sidings - no long timbers, but a lot of interlacing to hold the gauge:

 

lner_7_xover_sidings_1200x912.png.168449d934191521c54c6dcdff5be805.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
GWR spacing note added
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40 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

This was my first attempt at the junction with hand built turnouts. Looked OK. Ran like a pig.

Version 2 was PECO bullhead points. Ran well, looked terrible.

Version 3 will be Wayne's kits.

P1060183.JPG.17e8ff5d8b38f47e472ace520bd39cfc.JPG

 

The main issues with hand built track is firstly having a good plan to work from, having the appropriate gauges to ensure the standard of building is to the correct standard and within the set tolerances. Finally something people forget is to check the quality and back to back measurements of all stock

 

 

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On 21/08/2021 at 11:08, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Guys,

 

Currently working in CAD for a 00 Gauge B7 crossover @ 50mm spacing (ready for an upcoming Hornby Magazine Article ;) )

1282816303_b7crossover.JPG.9fb43929599a4da89fd9c9cd11e7d938.JPG

 

It's difficult to cater for every single formation, but as Martin says, these are only kits! :)

 

 

Just a thought, with the publicity offered by the Hornby magazine article, should I place my full order now, before the rush?

Bob

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On 21/08/2021 at 16:32, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

Everything depends on the traffic. I wish I had a pound for every time I've written that. :) And also to some extent on the prototype company -- the GWR loved timber.

 

In a fast running line -- lots of long timbers. Especially if on a curve.

 

In goods loops and layby sidings -- a few long timbers.

 

In yards and sidings -- very few long timbers, or sometimes none at all.

 

Here's a GWR 1:7 crossover in running lines - lots of long timbers:

 

gwr_7_xover_1200x622.png.4bfb5b9c21c776eb6530ea39f04ac129.png

 

*note the 6ft-6in GWR track spacing to the gauge faces. Which means GWR double track is 1/2" wider spacing than other companies (which have 6ft way between the rails).

 

Here's an LNER 1:7 design for use in sidings - no long timbers, but a lot of interlacing to hold the gauge:

 

lner_7_xover_sidings_1200x912.png.168449d934191521c54c6dcdff5be805.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Martin,  you need to write that book...!  then you would get a £1 every time..!

Patrick

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Discussion earlier in the thread considered the transition from 16.5 mm flex track to 16.2 mm OO-SF. Attached photo shows Wayne’s OO-SF Turnout joined to Peco Bullhead track.

 

This happens to have one sleeper’s worth of rail beyond the Finetrax base. Those are exactoscale chairs, currently hovering over an unpainted black timber under them. That was not to allow for the transition, it was just coincidence, but it does work well. 
I am not even sure 1 sleepers worth is necessary. 

461DA469-B435-4BC0-92D4-F78845C3DA3F.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, Dominion said:

Discussion earlier in the thread considered the transition from 16.5 mm flex track to 16.2 mm OO-SF. Attached photo shows Wayne’s OO-SF Turnout joined to Peco Bullhead track.

 

This happens to have one sleeper’s worth of rail beyond the Finetrax base. Those are exactoscale chairs, currently hovering over an unpainted black timber under them. That was not to allow for the transition, it was just coincidence, but it does work well. 
I am not even sure 1 sleepers worth is necessary. 

461DA469-B435-4BC0-92D4-F78845C3DA3F.jpeg

I'm sold.

I'll have to make a massive U turn.

In light of the demonstration here and the assurances that modern stock is generally unaffected by the reduced gauge, I'll eat my words and go for 00-sf.

Does anyone want to buy half a dozen 00 standard turnouts?

Bob

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