2021 hopes

[daltonparva]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

 

Unlike CoY, I don't see Accurascale picking off any steam loco — how many steam locos have they done so far?

 

 

There's a YouTube video of Jenny Kirk interviewing an Accurascale gent who confirms there will be a steam loco soon.

[exet1095]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Yes please, preferably 2721 or 1854. 

No thanks! 2021 please - open and closed cabs, auto-fitted ones, dock bells and industrial liveries too. Lasted into the late 1950s on BR and many were painted black and given red-backed numberplates. Most large sheds had one until they were replaced by 16xx locos in the 1950s.

 

The large panniers had gone by 1951, were not repainted, and tended to lurk in yards on shunting duties.

[MarkSG]

Wartime models are something of an under-represented sector in the RTR market, at the moment. When a manufacturer releases a model in Big 4 livery, it's typically in the classic 1930s version, which isn't usually suitable for a wartime layout. If you want to build a wartime layout then you will usually need to be prepared to do a fair bit of repainting, which can be offputting. Plus, of course, the standard wartime colour scheme for almost everything was black, in different shades of rust and dirt, which is often precisely the opposite of what people who are attracted to the more colourful Big 4 era are looking for. So it's often not something that apeals to the average enthusiast, to coin a phrase.

 

But, on the other hand, wartime modelling does open up a lot of opportunities. There's a clear and obvious crossover with military modelling, for example, and there are some really good layouts on the exhibition circuit which exploit that potential very well. It was also a time of intensive traffic on the network, with the addition of military transport alongside normal civil passenger and freight movements, which is something else that makes for a good modelling experience.

 

One of the key aspects of the wartime railways, though, was the introduction - even if only short-term - of a lot of new designs of locomotives and rolling stock. Warwell and warflat wagons, for example, several classes of "austerity" locomotives and, most strikingly, the USATC locos. Unlike the austerities, which generally remained in the UK and became a staple of early BR, the USATC classes were mostly only here for the war. So their presence on a layout is one of the things that immediately marks it out as set during wartime, even if everything else looks much the same as it would in the 1930s or the early 1950s. But the average, non-kitbuilding modeller can't, currently, include many of these more esoteric (to British eyes) designs.

 

So I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. A wider range of wartime models would make modelling that period easier and more attractive. But manufacturers won't make the models unless they have a reasonable expectation that they will sell.

 

Maybe what it will take, therefore, is for one of the manufacturers to take a gamble on a wartime prototype that would fall firmly into that category. And maybe the S160 is that prototype. Just like nobody was really sure whether industrials would sell until Hornby took a punt on the Peckett.  And now we've got industrials a-plenty, and no sign of the flow stopping.

[Dunsignalling]

1930s liveries persisted well into WW2 and, in a few cases, lasted right through. Paint wasn't wasted on locos that didn't need it.

 

However, the sort of weathering/distressing required to create a realistic impression would horrify the rose-coloured-spectacle-wearing devotees of the immediately preceding period.

 

John

[robmcg]

27 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

1930s liveries persisted well into WW2 and, in a few cases, lasted right through. Paint wasn't wasted on locos that didn't need it.

 

However, the sort of weathering/distressing required to create a realistic impression would horrify the rose-coloured-spectacle-wearing devotees of the immediately preceding period.

 

John

 

I wonder what those Stanier Pacifics looked like still in 1939 livery in 1945! 

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

At least the APT did something, looked quite nice and was high profile, the latter two characteristics have already sold many Midland Pullman livery HSTs in many peoples minds. My "it would cost a £1000 to replicate" may have been closer to the mark that I thought; 2x EMR livery with DATS branding power cars- £250, TWO Class 91's in LNER livery (as they won't do a "dummy" 91!)- £400. One Mk3 DVT in DATS- £50 and assorted livery Mk3 @ £35 each all-in comes to £980!!

 

Absolutely not disagreeing with you at all but ....... How many people would actually assemble a full length train and run it on a model railway.  I am guessing that a fair percentage of model acquisitions simply get bought, test run then put in a box, on a shelf or in a display case and a full ten or 12 item train is rarely run except maybe at exhibitions. 

 

As I said above I am quite ambivalent about the idea of DATS, but surely it is a marketing decision by the model manufacturer who consider whether it is worthwhile. 

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, robmcg said:

 

I wonder what those Stanier Pacifics looked like still in 1939 livery in 1945! 

Given how hard those got worked, I doubt any would have escaped the need for a "General" in that timescale...

 

John

[MarkSG]

(Having presented the argument for why wartime models are, potentially, like industrials, I will now proceed to present the opposing point of view...)

 

One of the things that makes industrials an attractive proposition for a manufacturer is that, if they do sell at all (and that gamble has been taken, and won), they are very sweatable assets. Most industrials had a long lifespan and were sold in a large number of different liveries. Hornby could do a new livery for the Peckett 0-4-0 every year for a considerable number of years without exhausting the possibilities. Given that the initial tooling development costs will have been covered by the first run, that makes them a pretty effective cash cow, even if each new version somes with some tweaks to distinguish it from the others. They're also cheap, very cheerful and, unlike their mainline counterparts, were often colourful. So they are very attractive to train set buyers who really don't care about prototypical accuracy but just want something that looks nice and doesn't cost much.

 

The short-term wartime visitors, though, such as the S160, are very much one-offs. The austerity designs can be presented in both wartime and post-war liveries (and, often, industrial as well for that matter), so they, too, have repeat value built in. But the S160 really only has one option for use on a UK-based layout (and use on a European-based layout would require it to be in HO rather than OO), as they simply didn't have any post-war use (until much more recent preserved examples).  So it's not a particularly sweatable asset; the first run is likely to be the only run (unless they sell out really quickly). There won't be any scope to repeatedly do a new variant in successive years. And they're bigger locos, and hence will cost more to develop and be priced accordingly. So the stakes are a lot higher, and if they don't sell it will be more costly.

 

I have a feeling, therefore, that if Hornby (or any other manufacturer) does want to look at the wartime era, they're more likely to start with wartime liveried versions of otherwise standard British prototypes.  There are lots of potential opportunities for that in the existing range.

 

But, still, an S160 would be the kind of left-field prototype that has proven to sell. The APT-E and the Hush-Hush had even shorter working lives and were much less widespread. So it might still be worth a punt, just on the "And now for something completely different" principle. It would probably sell well enough just to the people who like oddities and one-offs. But if it also sells more widely, it could indicate a market for more wartime models. And that demand could be at least met by new liveries of the existing range.  

 

 

[daltonparva]

1 hour ago, MarkSG said:

Wartime models are something of an under-represented sector in the RTR market, at the moment. When a manufacturer releases a model in Big 4 livery, it's typically in the classic 1930s version, which isn't usually suitable for a wartime layout. 

I'm afraid that's the exact opposite in Bachmann's case of LMS locos, a pet gripe of mine. Midland compound, 1P, Lanky 2-4-2 tank, all plain black when they should be red and lined black.

[JSpencer]

2 hours ago, daltonparva said:

There's a YouTube video of Jenny Kirk interviewing an Accurascale gent who confirms there will be a steam loco soon.

 

And with Paul Isley working down south, there are a couple of Southern types I can think of not yet in RTR.

Edited December 11, 2020 by JSpencer

[GreenGiraffe22]

Models in wartime black often end up in the bargain bins which is where I snap them up =D 

 

The most frustrating thing for me modelling the war years is how poorly documented it is photographically because of wartime restrictions, I usually have to go by photos of a few years before or after to get some prototype ideas.

 

But on the flip side, because it's so poorly documented it does give you some artistic licence to run more unusual things in unlikely locations using the war as an excuse! 

 

For example, my Merchant Navy was absolutely needed to take troop trains along the Sussex coast

[Ruffnut Thorston]

11 hours ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

I thought the recent Railroad one was the one with the problem.

I seem to remmeber a review by Sam's Trains showing that the guide wheel at the back is not sprung and so lifts off the rear set of drivers. Funnily enough the one with the traction tyre on it.

The first Railroad, and the Warley special edition models were these...

 

I had heard that after an absence from availability, the re introduced models had improved, possibly going back to the sprung rear axle?

 

Can anyone shed light on this?

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

actually assemble a full length train and run it on a model railway. 

 

That is one appealing factor in some of the modern stuff, where a prototypical express passenger train can be done in around 2 metres.

 

5 car 800s (although the ones Hornby model seem to always be 9 car in 5 car config)

4 and 5 coach HSTs (Inter7city, GWR Castle and NMT, not passenger I know but a HST, spring to mind)

TPE Nova 3s

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by TomScrut

[Ouroborus]

HST Midland Blue Pullman please.

[DutyDruid]

 

[DutyDruid]

2 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

Link to Hornby Advent Calendar 12 Dec

 

Sorry, couldn't resist....

[RyanN91]

Ah Hornby do love the BR Class 43 HST Intercity 125 train sets the 2019 GWR is a very good seller!  I remember the enthusiasm and hype about how it was reintroduced into the 2019 range catalogue! "plus a very welcome return to The High Speed Train Set brought right up to date in latest GWR livery". 

 

I wonder what Train sets will be launched for 2021 usually 3 or 4 new train sets launched each year isn't it? to reengage people back into the hobby, or newcomers who are starting out in the hobby, or to expand or his or hers first train set! Perhaps an LNER Intercity 225 train set would sell well for fans of InterCity 225 trains around the price of the Eurostar, I reckon they could use the old BR Class 91 MK4 carriages and a BR MK4 DVT. they have used their older tooling's for the BR MK3 Coach and Railroad BR Class 43 power cars for the GWR High Speed Train set. or perhaps a Diesel Freight set with either a BR Class 37, or BR Class 40, or BR Class 55 ( I think a Class 37 would be good for this as its been ages since launched as a train set)  in BR Blue with 3 wagons. or they could issue a BR diesel passenger express set with either a BR Class 47 or a BR Class 37 in BR Blue with 2 or 3 BR MK2 carriages from the railroad range.

 

They may even release an Avanti Trains Pendolino Train set. or even a revived 1997/1998 Diesel breakdown set with a BR Class 06 shunter, Operating Maintenance Crane, B.R. Engineers Tippler Wagon and B.R. Engineers 45 Ton Steel Carrier.  or for steam they could produce a  1950s late steam set as in 2018 it was ex- LNER BR early crest East Coast Express with a beautiful B17 steam locomotive with some MK1 coaches. So perhaps next year it can be the south west coasts turn! Perhaps it could be called  GWR Rivera Express or Devonian Rivera Express with a Railroad GWR 1000 Class locomotive, GWR 1006 County of Cornwall, or RailRoad Ex GWR BR late crest 1005 County of Devon, with 2 BR MK1 carriages 1 Corridor Composite Coach  and 1 Corridor Brake Second both  in BR Chocolate and Cream livery from the Railroad range.  

 

along with a starter shunter steam freight set with some wagons which they usually launch with the every popular Flying Scotsman set.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by RyanN91
typo

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, exet1095 said:

No thanks! 2021 please - open and closed cabs, auto-fitted ones, dock bells and industrial liveries too. Lasted into the late 1950s on BR and many were painted black and given red-backed numberplates. Most large sheds had one until they were replaced by 16xx locos in the 1950s.

 

The large panniers had gone by 1951, were not repainted, and tended to lurk in yards on shunting duties.

No use to me; Tondu had two 2721s and an 1854 during my time frame, but no 2021s. 

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

The AS ones are GBRF, not Drax as such (because Drax don't own them), but go there regularly.

 

I am presuming the OP is wanting the Drax ones as per the Revolution release (I am wanting a rerun/new tooling of these too), there are 2 new liveries Hornby never did. Although I'd not fancy spending £75 a go for them I probably would if they were redone. Why would they destroy the tooling?

 

Technically if you're including the GBRF ones as Drax wagons because they go there then the Greenbrier IIA Tanoos wagons also occasionally do deliver biomass to Drax (they mostly do the Lynemouth runs). I'd be keen for a release of these too. I base my rolling stock around York so Biomass is a good proportion of the freight.

 

10 hours ago, 1whitemoor said:

 

Let's be honest, nobody can say that.

 

Plenty of examples where limited editions or items have appeared again in all walks of life - there's no contract to say this and just like a bands "farewell" or "final tour", there's no substance to it. 

 

Paul A. 

 

9 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

How is it certain that it will never happen again? When asked about OO Revolution said something about Hornby owning the rights (or something on those lines) which gives inference that there is some existing financial interest.

 

And the Revolution thing might be just what is needed to spark the idea in Drax/Hornby's heads that there may be a bit of money to be made. For example if the person at Drax responsible for licensing the wagons thinks "Revolution can justify doing it and paying us a worthwhile amount of money, so surely the tooling we own (if it still exists) could be of commercial use"

 

Firstly, regarding my confusion with the DRAX hoppers, I always thought there was one type (the one Hornby did), but when I had asked about DRAX hoppers once, I had a few people tell me that there's more than one and was pointed in the direction of the Accurascale one. But yes those are GBRf ones. I stand corrected. 

 

Regarding the tooling being destroyed, that is something that I recall reading at length, if my memory serves me right, it was on a Facebook group. Whoever was talking about it said that since this was a one time thing, keeping the tooling was pointless and it was being sold for scrap. Thanks to @Islesy for correcting me on that, OP is now edited to reflect that. 

 

As for re-runs, yes I know other limited edition models have been done again after a certain period of time. However I was always led to believe that the DRAX biomass hoppers were a one time thing and one time thing only. This is what Andy Y said in the main thread about the Hornby DRAX biomass hoppers - "The comparatively high price is due to the limited run commissioned by Drax with the associated cost, no-one's making any huge margin on it and it is very definitely a one-off opportunity as the tooling is not owned by Hornby and isn't likely to be used other than this publicity run."

 

 

[MGR Hooper!]

9 hours ago, Islesy said:

Not sure where you got that information from, as it definitely still exists ;-)

 

That would be careless old me spewing misinformation that I read on a Facebook group and should have fact checked first.... 

 

But thanks for the correction Paul. 

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

Ah Hornby do love the BR Class 43 HST Intercity 125 train sets the 2019 GWR is a very good seller!  I remember the enthusiasm and hype about how it was reintroduced into the 2019 range catalogue! "plus a very welcome return to The High Speed Train Set brought right up to date in latest GWR livery". 

 

I wonder what Train sets will be launched for 2021 usually 3 or 4 new train sets launched each year isn't it? to reengage people back into the hobby, or newcomers who are starting out in the hobby, or to expand or his or hers first train set! Perhaps an LNER Intercity 225 train set would sell well for fans of InterCity 225 trains around the price of the Eurostar, I reckon they could use the old BR Class 91 MK4 carriages and a BR MK4 DVT. they have used their older tooling's for the BR MK3 Coach and Railroad BR Class 43 power cars for the GWR High Speed Train set. or perhaps a Diesel Freight set with either a BR Class 37, or BR Class 40, or BR Class 55 ( I think a Class 37 would be good for this as its been ages since launched as a train set)  in BR Blue with 3 wagons. or they could issue a BR diesel passenger express set with either a BR Class 47 or a BR Class 37 in BR Blue with 2 or 3 BR MK2 carriages from the railroad range.

 

They may even release an Avanti Trains Pendolino Train set. or even a revived 1997/1998 Diesel breakdown set with a BR Class 06 shunter, Operating Maintenance Crane, B.R. Engineers Tippler Wagon and B.R. Engineers 45 Ton Steel Carrier.  or for steam they could produce a  1950s late steam set as in 2018 it was ex- LNER BR early crest East Coast Express with a beautiful B17 steam locomotive with some MK1 coaches. So perhaps next year it can be the south west coasts turn! Perhaps it could be called  GWR Rivera Express or Devonian Rivera Express with a Railroad GWR 1000 Class locomotive, GWR 1006 County of Cornwall, or RailRoad Ex GWR BR late crest 1005 County of Devon, with 2 BR MK1 carriages 1 Corridor Composite Coach  and 1 Corridor Brake Second both  in BR Chocolate and Cream livery from the Railroad range.  

 

along with a starter shunter steam freight set with some wagons which they usually launch with the every popular Flying Scotsman set.

 

Ah well, that's 2021 to 2031 inclusive taken care of....

 

John

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

Ah Hornby do love the BR Class 43 HST Intercity 125 train sets. The 2019 GWR is a very good seller!  I remember the enthusiasm and hype about how it was reintroduced into the 2019 range catalogue! "plus a very welcome return to The High Speed Train Set brought right up to date in latest GWR livery". 

 

I wonder what Train sets will be launched for 2021 usually 3 or 4 new train sets launched each year isn't it, To re-engage people back into the hobby, or newcomers who are starting out in the hobby, or to expand or his or hers first train set! Perhaps an LNER Intercity 225 train set would sell well for fans of InterCity 225 trains around the price of the Eurostar, I reckon they could use the old BR Class 91 MK4 carriages and a BR MK4 DVT. They have used their older tooling's for the BR MK3 Coach and Railroad BR Class 43 power cars for the GWR High Speed Train set. or perhaps a Diesel Freight set with either a BR Class 37, or BR Class 40, or BR Class 55 ( I think a Class 37 would be good for this as its been ages since launched as a train set)  in BR Blue with 3 wagons. Or they could issue a BR diesel passenger express set with either a BR Class 47 or a BR Class 37 in BR Blue with 2 or 3 BR MK2 carriages from the railroad range.

 

They may even release an Avanti Trains Pendolino Train set. or even a revived 1997/1998 Diesel breakdown set with a BR Class 06 shunter, Operating Maintenance Crane, B.R. Engineers Tippler Wagon and B.R. Engineers 45 Ton Steel Carrier.  Or for steam they could produce a 1950s late steam set as in 2018 it was ex- LNER BR early crest East Coast Express with a beautiful B17 steam locomotive with some MK1 coaches. So perhaps next year it can be the south west coasts turn! Perhaps it could be called  GWR Rivera Express or Devonian Rivera Express with a Railroad GWR 1000 Class locomotive, GWR 1006 County of Cornwall, or RailRoad Ex GWR BR late crest 1005 County of Devon, with 2 BR MK1 carriages 1 Corridor Composite Coach  and 1 Corridor Brake Second both  in BR Chocolate and Cream livery from the Railroad range.  

 

Along with a starter shunter steam freight set with some wagons which they usually launch with the every popular Flying Scotsman set.

 

I like a lot of those suggestions for train sets.

However some may be a hit and miss. When it comes to train sets, they need to target two markets i.e. present day and fictional.

Under fictional we usually see the odd 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 with an assortment of wagons. Some are prototypical others are fictional and yet others are based on real companies/railways but the livery, locos and rolling stock are fictional. These sets cater to the new comers mainly. People who usually just want a train set.

Under present day, we usually see something like the GWR HST set or the East Coast Express or any steam loco that is in preservation and running on the mainline hauling scheduled services and excursions. These sets capture a bigger audience. Newcomers, children, grown-ups on a budget, people who just want a prototypical set and so on. Train sets based on what we see today - LNER, GWR, Cross Country, Grand Central etc. or train sets based on steam hauled trains in operation today are more likely to get the attention of children, newcomers and others who see these on a daily basis or a regular basis. I'd love to see train sets based on a LNER, VTEC, Cross Country or Grand Central HST. Maybe even a Network Rail themed one as well. The older Class 91 and Mk4s would make a good LNER themed set.

The only problem I see with having train sets based on the sectorisation and early privatisation era is that it will appeal to a smaller audience with more of a nostalgic connection. I'm not saying that they won't sell, but I feel that something present day is more likely to attract a crowd especially if the sets are sold at the right places. A child is more likely to want a HST he/she can associate with more readily that a Class 37 or Class 47 in a sectorisation livery.

 

There is a way around that though - train packs. An NSE or BR Blue themed train pack with a Class 50 and Mk1 or Mk2 coaches will be a hit amongst the number of people who model the BR Blue period or the NSE. Same goes for an Intercity themed train pack with either with a Class 37 or Class 47 and Mk1 or Mk2 coaches. You could do a Regional Railways train pack. Anything with the Class 31 or Class 50 can be marketed as a full spec Hornby product, the others will be better off as a Hornby Railroad product.

[Hilux5972]

1 minute ago, MGR Hooper! said:

However some may be a hit and miss. When it comes to train sets, they need to target two markets i.e. present day and fictional.

And occasionally you get one that is both fictional and modern day ie The Hogwarts Express lol. In all seriousness though, it would be great to see Hornby follow what Bachmann does and produce some sets that include a fully detailed loco and 2 coaches, instead of just railroad detail versions. 

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I wonder what those Stanier Pacifics looked like still in 1939 livery in 1945! 

The pre-war bits apparently looked very nice when cleaned up and lasted without any problems into the post war period until the engines were repainted according to a former LMS loco engineer I knew back in the 1980s.  

[hellotojasonisaacs]

25 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

I very much agree with the sentiments about an HST pack vs 37s/47s. That said some mk1s in Regional Railways livery would be very nice to see.