2021 hopes

[atom3624]

BR blue ones in good used condition are selling for frankly ridiculous money on Ebay - obviously plenty of demand for them.

 

Al.

[Chris56057]

11 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

BR blue ones in good used condition are selling for frankly ridiculous money on Ebay - obviously plenty of demand for them.

 

Al.

At this rate it's cheaper to get one of the current models resprayed than to buy one off the well known auction site. 

[CazRail]

4 hours ago, Chris56057 said:

I can not understand why they haven't released anymore variants of the Class 56 last year and I'm not holding out for any in 2020 either. It doesn't really make sense as I think they would sell quite well, particularly the BR Blue and Large Logo?

 

I'm hoping for a few more 56s this year too. BR Blue and LL do indeed sell well.

 

A Transrail Dutch one would be great, along maybe a standard  Transrail and maybe EWS/EW&S.

 

Also thinking along the lines of the Hungarian 56 they did this year, how about a French one in Fertis livery?

Edited December 21, 2020 by CazRail

[Rhydgaled]

On 09/12/2020 at 21:46, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I'm still one of those lunatics that think that the Lima Mk3's have yet to be beaten as slam door HST trailers. Add the Lazerglaze flushglazing, and install one of those great new interiors* in the TS vehicles if doing any livery post blue/grey and tidy things up a bit around the end beams and couplings and to my eye a very good standard of HST can be produced when sandwiched between a pair of Hornby power cars. Having come at the TRSB problem from both directions my conclusion is that hacking about with a Lima Mk3 buffet to create a four window version is a better starting point than the Limby RFM (you need a donor TF or TS to rob two full window bays and the "blank canvas" of a standard trailer roof to add the correct pods to, but the RFM is miles away from a TRSB when viewed from above). 40619 (to which you refer) was a three window bay buffet with first class (so not far off the Lima or Hornby buffets) was only ever a short term spare in the Cross-Country fleet on and off during the 1990's and is a bit of a hybrid/freak show to trial "cuisine 2000" which fell out of favour almost before it began.

 

*declaration of personal interest whilst stocks last!!

 

Lima's mark 3s certainly beat the Oxford Mark 3a hands down; the underframe skirt on the Oxford model is the wrong shape.

 

Regarding buffets, is the 4 window buffet something Lima made in a range of liveries (I asked this before (in a specific topic) but have no answers yet)?

 

On 09/12/2020 at 16:33, wombatofludham said:

The Oxford and Hornlimby Mk3s don't sit well together in a rake.

Of course. The Hornby (scale length) slam-door and Lima mark 3s I have are far more similar to each other than either appears to be to the photos I've seen of Oxford's mark 3s. Even so, I'm not sure Hornby mark 3s and the Lima TGS will sit well together in a rake (the Hornby is a different livery). I'm not sure whether to stick my Hornby TSO on Ebay and try and source 2nd hand Lima items or whether it would look ok if I resprayed it into to the desired livery (which the Lima ones are in).

 

On 13/12/2020 at 20:14, RyanN91 said:

Also a BR MK3 Sleeper coach could be reintroduced the prices for second hand and old new stock at the moment well I...

 

What are/were the formations of the Night Riviera and Caledonian Sleeper with mark 3 stock? I know the Night Riviera has a mark 3 BFO (which if you had the CADs for a TGS and an appropriate LHCS mark 3 (3b I assume, or is the BFO mark 3a?) would probably be only a minor job on the CAD front) but what else do you need? What mark 2s did Caledonian Sleeper use; 2d, 2e or 2f?

 

On 14/12/2020 at 17:07, adb968008 said:

i’d class mk4’s as historical at this juncture, but equally think a revamp of the old ones would suffice, people would buy LNER mk4’s on an old tooling just as much as they would buy them on new. They could spin the wheel on that old tooling one more time and get away with it, so save 6 figures to invest in something else later. I suspect beyond LNER many will pause for thought once they see the price tag, before going wild replacing older ones (GNER, IC etc), what people say they want, what they actually need and what they do are different, especially when faced with a wide choice of models competing for a smaller slice of the wallet... 

I'd agree that the existing mark 4 TSO/FO and Buffet are probably ok with a revamp (mainly bogie changes, eg. NEM pockets and remove parts that should be body-mouted instead) but the cab end of the DVT needs alot of work (the inner end needs to match the coaches).

[Ollie P Learning OO gauge]

On 11/12/2020 at 18:16, Islesy said:

Not sure where you got that information from, as it definitely still exists ;-)

Oh awesome! Someone in the thread said it was destroyed! 

[Ollie P Learning OO gauge]

Another idea -  we  need a OO Gauge class 60 in GBRF livery!! Also, there are those new white GBRF biomass hoppers  (NOT the ones being made by Accurascale) which could go nicely with it....

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

we  need a OO Gauge class 60 in GBRF livery

 

We do, I have put it on my list!

 

6 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

Also, there are those new white GBRF biomass hoppers

 

If it's these ones you're on about, I also agree. Only issue with regards to their viability is their movements are normally limited to Port of Tyne to Lynemouth although they do very occasionally get down the ECML to Drax

 

https://flic.kr/p/2hAbBen

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by TomScrut

[hellotojasonisaacs]

14 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

 

I'd agree that the existing mark 4 TSO/FO and Buffet are probably ok with a revamp (mainly bogie changes, eg. NEM pockets and remove parts that should be body-mouted instead) but the cab end of the DVT needs alot of work (the inner end needs to match the coaches).

Forgive my pedantry, but the Mk4 buffets were altered significantly during refurbishment. The existing tooling is only suitable for Intercity and early GNER. A TSOE is also needed. 
 

I do agree though about bogies, couplings and the DVT. 

[atom3624]

I still think that 'pre-Grouping' is becoming more of interest to people from what I'm seeing.

 

The Singles I've mentioned earlier.

How about Hornby getting into the Atlantics - remove the Bachmann monopoly?

A Claughton would be interesting as well.

 

Definitely re-introduce the blue Class 56's - I might eventually get one!

 

Al.

[Rockalaucher101]

2 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I still think that 'pre-Grouping' is becoming more of interest to people from what I'm seeing.

 

The Singles I've mentioned earlier.

How about Hornby getting into the Atlantics - remove the Bachmann monopoly?

A Claughton would be interesting as well.

 

Definitely re-introduce the blue Class 56's - I might eventually get one!

 

Al.

I have one of the older Lima tooled Hornby models so wouldn't mind a modern one

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Definitely re-introduce the blue Class 56's

 

Whilst not of appeal to me (orange yellow and black being the only one relevant to me) I am surprised these haven't come around again!

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

17 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

 

Lima's mark 3s certainly beat the Oxford Mark 3a hands down; the underframe skirt on the Oxford model is the wrong shape.

 

Regarding buffets, is the 4 window buffet something Lima made in a range of liveries (I asked this before (in a specific topic) but have no answers yet)?

 

Of course. The Hornby (scale length) slam-door and Lima mark 3s I have are far more similar to each other than either appears to be to the photos I've seen of Oxford's mark 3s. Even so, I'm not sure Hornby mark 3s and the Lima TGS will sit well together in a rake (the Hornby is a different livery). I'm not sure whether to stick my Hornby TSO on Ebay and try and source 2nd hand Lima items or whether it would look ok if I resprayed it into to the desired livery (which the Lima ones are in).

 

 

What are/were the formations of the Night Riviera and Caledonian Sleeper with mark 3 stock? I know the Night Riviera has a mark 3 BFO (which if you had the CADs for a TGS and an appropriate LHCS mark 3 (3b I assume, or is the BFO mark 3a?) would probably be only a minor job on the CAD front) but what else do you need? What mark 2s did Caledonian Sleeper use; 2d, 2e or 2f?

 

I'd agree that the existing mark 4 TSO/FO and Buffet are probably ok with a revamp (mainly bogie changes, eg. NEM pockets and remove parts that should be body-mouted instead) but the cab end of the DVT needs alot of work (the inner end needs to match the coaches).

Lot to come back on there! Lima never did a four window buffet, only the three window one, but they did it in every livery they ever existed in upto and including 1999 FGW "Fag-Pack". The only four window buffet that has ever been done is the Limby RFM which is really only any good as an RFM as the roof vents/hatches are totally different to those found on any HST four window buffet (or indeed on any low numbered RFM which were converted from HST vehicles). This product was only ever manufactured by Hornby but re-worked the old Lima buffet tooling as Hornby already had a scale length, three window buffet so its construction is Lima-a-like, so far I've seen it done in BR blue (complete with central door locking!), IC Swallow and privatisation era liveries such as Virgin, Arriva Trains Wales, Grand Central and Anglia.

 

I use scale length Hornby and Lima in the same formation and think they are fine, but probably best to flushglaze the Lima ones otherwise they stand out too much (and of course install one of those replacement interiors in any TSO/TS vehicle post BR blue- I need to make more sales, type "Hornby Mk3 interior" or "Lima Mk3 interior" into eBay!!) . I think Lima with flushglazing is unbeaten for a Mk3, the underframes are so uncomplicated on the real one that no super fine detail is ever going to give us a leap forward in appearance in my opinion.

 

Wish list? Mk3 sleepers are scarce, they could bring out more blue/grey, more InterCity and more early private liveries and still sell out, the world and his wife models loco-hauled trains and they have been unavailable for a while now. Didn't Kernow do some "day" coaches to go with the Night Riviera current style and how good were they?

 

With a clever bit of design a Mk4 TOE ought to be possible from a normal standard class coach, surely the only difference is a blanked off vestibule end?!

[Joseph_Pestell]

With more interest in pre-grouping and the attractive Hattons' generic coaches to haul, my suggestion would be a Sharp Stewart loco as used by some of the smaller pre-group railways (Furness, Cambrian, etc). Both the 2-4-0T and 4-4-0 are so attractive.

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

I still think that 'pre-Grouping' is becoming more of interest to people from what I'm seeing.

 

The Singles I've mentioned earlier.

How about Hornby getting into the Atlantics - remove the Bachmann monopoly?

A Claughton would be interesting as well.

 

Definitely re-introduce the blue Class 56's - I might eventually get one!

 

Al.

Hi Al,

 

I think the reason for pre-grouping becoming attractive is likely due to the variety of trains that might be seen even on small branch line and also that scale length main line express trains aren't particularly long pre 1930.

 

Modern branch lines have little or no goods traffic to speak of with just the same unit or possibly two trundling backwards and forwards. Modern mainlines have hugely long goods trains of 18 plus bogie wagons plus locomotive and the passenger trains tend to be a couple of types of identikit units. To me this spells branch line boredom or huge and expensive main line layout.

 

Big four branch lines are fine for operation and variety but again main line trains were on the long side which as above require large expensive layouts to reflect realism.

 

As you say, pre grouping could work well in terms of both space required and realistic representation for a Midland spinner and the various atlantics may have been fast but the trains of the period were not particularly long.

 

Gibbo.

[mdvle]

On 21/12/2020 at 08:32, Chris56057 said:

I can not understand why they haven't released anymore variants of the Class 56 last year and I'm not holding out for any in 2020 either. It doesn't really make sense as I think they would sell quite well, particularly the BR Blue and Large

 

Sometimes it won't be a question of how well something will sell, but can they get the budget and factory slots to do it - or what other model do they instead cancel to make X instead.

 

22 hours ago, atom3624 said:

BR blue ones in good used condition are selling for frankly ridiculous money on Ebay - obviously plenty of demand for them.

 

As has been said before, eBay is a poor indicator of demand.  It may be correct, or it may just be a small handful of people willing to pay crazy prices, hard to tell when you need a minimum order in the thousands of units.

 

And the various lockdowns have driven a surge in almost every hobby, which none of the hobby manufacturers could have prepared for, which in turn has led to higher used prices and occasionally shortages.

[Rhydgaled]

5 hours ago, hellotojasonisaacs said:

Forgive my pedantry, but the Mk4 buffets were altered significantly during refurbishment. The existing tooling is only suitable for Intercity and early GNER. A TSOE is also needed. 
 

I do agree though about bogies, couplings and the DVT. 

 

Sorry, I assumed the buffet changes were just interiors and livery, I didn't know any external changes were made. As for the TOE, I tried to steer clear of that by saying that the existing TSO/FO and buffet were reasonable - that implies the TOE isn't (because it doesn't exist) but, as fiftyfour fiftyfour said

Quote

With a clever bit of design a Mk4 TOE ought to be possible from a normal standard class coach, surely the only difference is a blanked off vestibule end?!

I don't know whether that would be straightforward production-wise though.

 

2 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Lot to come back on there! Lima never did a four window buffet, only the three window one, but they did it in every livery they ever existed in upto and including 1999 FGW "Fag-Pack". The only four window buffet that has ever been done is the Limby RFM which is really only any good as an RFM as the roof vents/hatches are totally different to those found on any HST four window buffet (or indeed on any low numbered RFM which were converted from HST vehicles). This product was only ever manufactured by Hornby but re-worked the old Lima buffet tooling

So the Hornby 4-window RFM is actually Lima's 3-window buffet hacked about a bit; meaning Hornby could no longer produce the original Lima 3-window buffet?

 

Quote

I use scale length Hornby and Lima in the same formation and think they are fine, but probably best to flushglaze the Lima ones otherwise they stand out too much (and of course install one of those replacement interiors in any TSO/TS vehicle post BR blue- I need to make more sales, type "Hornby Mk3 interior" or "Lima Mk3 interior" into eBay!!) . I think Lima with flushglazing is unbeaten for a Mk3, the underframes are so uncomplicated on the real one that no super fine detail is ever going to give us a leap forward in appearance in my opinion.

Where do the Lima ones win out over the Hornby scale-length ones? Is it just that Lima did the TGS to allow a matching rake? One of my concerns with mixing Lima and Hornby in a rake is that roof ribs might look different (if I recall correctly Oxford's are rather under nourished) and gangway connection floors/rooves may ride at different heights (although flushglazing is something I probably would notice more if I were to mix them). If you are concerned with correct interiors, I think my Lima TSOs both shipped with 2+1 (FO) interiors, so they aren't correct for any TSO are they?

 

Quote

Wish list? Mk3 sleepers are scarce, they could bring out more blue/grey, more InterCity and more early private liveries and still sell out, the world and his wife models loco-hauled trains and they have been unavailable for a while now. Didn't Kernow do some "day" coaches to go with the Night Riviera current style and how good were they?

My comments on the Mark 3 sleepers weren't a 'wishlist'; I'm not particularly interested in a model of them and probably wouldn't buy. What I might buy mark 3 wise is correctly done Swallow mark 3s with a matching TGS and a re-run of DVT 82146 in EWS management train livery (without the coaches and 67 that it was bundled with last time).

 

I'm just thinking that a 'one mark 3 range to rule them all' would ultimately require alot of models so I was wondering whether it would make sense to start with the sleepers; how many different vehicle types are required? A full mark 3 range would need (I'm no expert on mark 3s, I've probably missed some and misplaced others):

• Mark 3a (SO/FO, Buffet(s), SLE? / SLEP?, etc.)
• Mark 3b (DVT, FO, BFO?, etc.)
• Mark 3h (TGS, TSO/TFO, TRUB/TRFB, TRSB/TRB, etc.) (IC125 coaches)
• Mark 3p (DVT, FO/SO, Buffet) (Chiltern Plug Door coaches (and modified DVT))
• Mark 3s (TGS, TSO/TFO, TCC, etc.) (sliding door coaches)

You'd never get all of that in one year's range, but which vehicles do you pick out to start the ball rolling? In terms of quality, the Lima and Hornby scale-length coaches are adequate in themselves, but the lack of consistency between them (and missing variants, and the DVT looking out of place with it's different (although probably better) gangway connection) is a cause for concern.

 

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Modern branch lines have little or no goods traffic to speak of with just the same unit or possibly two trundling backwards and forwards. Modern mainlines have hugely long goods trains of 18 plus bogie wagons plus locomotive and the passenger trains tend to be a couple of types of identikit units. To me this spells branch line boredom or huge and expensive main line layout.

Depends on the branch line. Some are operated with through services to far flung destinations, rather than forcing passengers to change onto mainline services at the junction. In this case, rather than the same unit or two shuttling back and forth you need a whole pie of them with different running numbers (which makes Hornby's 153 rather expensive, shame they don't have a Railroad version). That's part of the reason I've picked the era I have (end of BR and early days of TOCs); rather than just different numbers I can have Regional Railways and various different Wales & West advertising liveries.

[wasabi]

Modelling in 2mm, Hornby isn't relevant to me, but I could make an exception if they do a broad gauge atmospheric set - maybe South Devon?   I think there are unpowered models on Shapeways but I'd like a working one NOW!

 

And of course at Vietnamese prices.

 

[IPW]

[Karl]

I think those hoping for more die cast special might be in luck. The new Engine Shed blog includes the line

 

"The reintroduction of the Hornby Dublo brand led by the supreme diecast bodied ‘Duchess of Atholl’ raised the bar in terms of model locomotive quality."

 

Reintroduction of a brand and the use of 'led by' that seems to suggest more to come.

[Dunsignalling]

7 minutes ago, Karl said:

I think those hoping for more die cast special might be in luck. The new Engine Shed blog includes the line

 

"The reintroduction of the Hornby Dublo brand led by the supreme diecast bodied ‘Duchess of Atholl’ raised the bar in terms of model locomotive quality."

 

Reintroduction of a brand and the use of 'led by' that seems to suggest more to come.

Was the metal in question Mazak, by any chance?

 

If so, we might be well advised to be cautious about what we wish for....

 

John 

[Legend]

6 minutes ago, Karl said:

I think those hoping for more die cast special might be in luck. The new Engine Shed blog includes the line

 

"The reintroduction of the Hornby Dublo brand led by the supreme diecast bodied ‘Duchess of Atholl’ raised the bar in terms of model locomotive quality."

 

Reintroduction of a brand and the use of 'led by' that seems to suggest more to come.

It definitely makes sense . I think Hornby got caught out making only 500 Duchess of Atholls . I’m sure they could have sold lots more .  Maybe an 8F in diecast would be a go’er . Kill two birds with one stone . Cater for people who want a new 8F while pandering to the collector diecast market 

[miles73128]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

It definitely makes sense . I think Hornby got caught out making only 500 Duchess of Atholls . I’m sure they could have sold lots more .  Maybe an 8F in diecast would be a go’er . Kill two birds with one stone . Cater for people who want a new 8F while pandering to the collector diecast market 

Hhhhmmmmm metal 9F.... there’s a thought....

[Hilux5972]

3 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

Hhhhmmmmm metal 9F.... there’s a thought....

Now that would be amazing. I still think they should do a flagship model of each company. Duchess already done for LMS. Perhaps a Merchant Navy for the SR, A1 or A4 for LNER, King or Castle for GWR, Britannia or 9F for BR. Would be a great series of models I think. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Hilux5972
Added content

[Philou]

Mentioning pre-grouping, I have an Edwardian photo of a junction station on the North-West route with an express pulling in that has 8 coaches behind - 3 of them are clerestory bogies and the rest are (possibly) 6-wheelers. The shot was taken from a footbridge so the wheels and sides are not visible - so a bit of wiggle-room in there. However, I do take the point that the train is not long overall.

 

The branch train is more interesting - a small tank loco with 3 (possibly) 6-wheelers, a closed van, 3 assorted minerals and a brake van to the rear. Bring on some pre-grouping stock, I say!

 

An Atlantic could be a good choice - especially if it were a GWR one.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Steamport Southport]

Pre grouping expresses were short?

 

Prior the 1900 the WCML expresses were over 14 bogie coaches many of them 12 wheelers, likewise the ECML. The GW and LSWR were similar lengths.

 

This is about the length of a short express pulled by a smallish 4-4-0.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm3314.htm

 

Yes. I know it's a mock up, but plenty of photographs show similar trains.

 

 

Jason

Edited December 22, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[ThaneofFife]

I agree on mk3 sleepers.   you could have the white roof charter stock too but certainly blue and grey or inter-city sleeper in executive livery or later swallow guise.   whether the glazing could be improved or not.....

 

i think the Hornby mk3 slam door ex Lima is still a good coach just needs the better eds off the plug door versions and closer couplings imho.