2021 hopes

[bigherb]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Ok, Triang 1961 Cataloge (if memory serves).

 

Just realised I forgot the B12.

 

And the Blue Pullman, Rocket & Dean single

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Looking back now to the roots of Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang a lot of Hornby Dublo locomotives have survived in a different form like the A4, N2, the Duchess, the Castle, 8F and the West Country whereas Tri-ang locomotives like the saddle tank, the L1, the 3MT, the 3F and the Transcontinental series have not and the wheel standards and track standards have more in common with Hornby Dublo than Tri-ang.  My hope of a Barnstaple locomotive is derived from Hornby Dublo and perhaps other old favourites like Silver King and City of London will form part of the Hornby range again one day.

Though, the 3F and the BR3 tank (plus, of course, the Jinty)  have all been done, and to this-century standards, by Bachmann. 

 

As for 'Barnstaple', yes please if it's the current Hornby one (it can have a correct tender at last!), No thanks if it's based on the old HD one. There are more than enough of those still around to satisfy the nostalgic cravings of everybody whose folks  couldn't or wouldn't spring for one back in the day.

 

Numerous doses of Hornby's brilliant new ones got any remaining traces of that out of my system and I (literally) haven't looked back since! The only thing I'd like to see changed is to lose the join in the boiler, but a diecast body is by no means the only (or even best) way to achieve that.  

 

I just can't understand why anybody (beyond, perhaps, die-hard R-number completists) would want what would inevitably be a half-way mishmash between ancient and modern when its not difficult to acquire (either of) the genuine articles. 

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

What exactly is worrisome about a low investment product?

 

The majority of Hornby's Basset-Lowke Steampunk range is Hornby's Railroad and Hornby Skaledale products with parts added on from Airfix kits. The Basset-Lowke Steampunk range isn't meant to be the ultimate in Steampunk, but meant to be a point of entry for possible Steampunkers. So I don't see Hornby making too much of an investment into this. 

 

Their investment is virtually nil. Except for the Steampunk figures which needed new moulds, everything else is based ok what Hornby already has. 

The investment is in marketing and design time, production capacity, and logistics - so it all costs money which could be spent on something else.  Hornby's marketeers and accountants no doubt decided  that it could be done at greater overall profit than doing something else (whatever that 'something else' might be).  It is therefore a comparative risk of some sort for the company but its management have obviously decided that it is a worthwhile risk otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

 

Whether it turns out to be a marketing and economic re-run of Olympic tat or a lost opportunity to invest time and money in, for example, profitable Airfix kits we will probably never know unless we see the range dumped next Christmas at cheap prices via mail order catalogues and department stores (what's left of them)  or unless something creeps through Hornby's various reports.  But equally of course it could be some sort of runaway success exploiting a new market area and that would get a positive mention in a report or press release from the company.

 

My own view is that it has come too late (and is getting even later) to derive any marketing impetus from the tv series which introduced the whole idea to a wider public.  That will I suspect condemn it as some sort of curiosity which might appeal to collectors but few others and not to a changing wider market who quickly forget what has appeared on the telly.  I might be wrong and Hornby might be right but whichever the pandemic will probably have made a difference and will no doubt be cited in evidence if the thing does not succeed.

[TomScrut]

11 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

What exactly is worrisome about a low investment product?

 

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The investment is in marketing and design time, production capacity, and logistics - so it all costs money which could be spent on something else.  Hornby's marketeers and accountants no doubt decided  that it could be done at greater overall profit than doing something else (whatever that 'something else' might be).  It is therefore a comparative risk of some sort for the company but its management have obviously decided that it is a worthwhile risk otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

 

I still think it's low risk as it doesn't look like loads of effort has been put into it, and I don't mean that to discredit or slate the work they have done on it it's just I genuinely think it has been a low cost, low risk dipping of the toe.

[Steamport Southport]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Sorry for the slow reply, i’m still in shock that Roco super detail is being compared to Railroad Hornby. 

there is some irony though,.

When talking about an unbuilt kit DJH loco, at £400, but then show me a finished showroom product, hand made by a world  renown engineer, whom is also engaged in restoring the real thing in Alaska. Clearly, it would be double that figure to buy in that condition.. Any possessor of kit built Pat Durand s160 would certainly not be in the market for any rtr S160 by any one., including the Roco one, which coincidentally he assisted/encouraged them to develop...

 

making your point both superfluous and ironic.

 

There is a little history here, as the AK557 team were seeking a US company to make in HO originally, but they were an even higher cost, hence Roco stepping in, who made a contribution to the project in return... its all on the 557 site.
 

Before you dismiss it as railroad, i’d suggest holding and testing one... its not a 1 piece mould like a 1980’s b17.. nor is  a showroom finished s160 £400 either...which is really a box of bits to DIY...it used to be £100 in 1999.. I made my own, but traded up when the rtr became available.

 

 

Super detail? Far from it. Look at the pipe runs and valve gear. Don't American trains have brakes? It's like something made by Hornby in the 1980s. By Railroad I mean of the same standard of the Crosti 9F and P2.

 

I might be being harsh. But if we were getting served up models like that as the latest releases by Hornby or Bachmann they would be getting slaughtered. 

 

https://bauer-xcel-g6rm.squarespace.com/review-preview/2017/5/30/roco-s160

 

But my point was you stated that nobody wants the DJH kit anymore as they are all buying the Roco version. Just not true. It's just not currently available, but was a few months ago. probably sold out during the current kit sales boom. It's a recent kit.

 

They are also both the wrong scale so why are they even being discussed? I was just pointing out that DJH first made the WDs in H0 before making them in 00. Maybe trying to get them to do a 4mm scale version would be the better option than using something which is totally the wrong scale.

 

 

 

Jason

[Downer]

Just out of interest, here's list of steam locomotive classes which, as far as I know, have not been made or announced as RTR models, yet had 40 or more locos in service as late as 1955:

 

ex-GWR

74xx 0-6-0PT

 

ex-SR

C2X 0-6-0

U 2-6-0

 

ex-LMS

Fowler 2-6-2T

Stanier 2-6-2T

Midland 2P 4-4-0

Stanier 3-cyl 2-6-4T

Johnson 0-6-0T

Fowler 0-8-0

Aspinall 0-6-0

Caledonian 0-4-4T

Drummond Caledonian 0-6-0

Midland 2F 0-6-0

 

ex-LNER

B16 4-6-0

K2 2-6-0

J6 0-6-0

J35 0-6-0

J37 0-6-0

J17 0-6-0

J25 0-6-0

J71 0-6-0T

J69 0-6-0T

N15 0-6-2T

N5 0-6-2T

A5 4-6-2T

A8 4-6-2T

 

 Admittedly, not a lot of 'wow factor' there - all black save a few 74xxs and Liverpool Street station pilots, the K2s the only namers.  But a lot of locos that people who care about modelling a particular time and area would find necessary.  Bachmann used to fill in gaps like these, and perhaps will again if and when their current troubles are sorted.  

Edited December 29, 2020 by Downer

[D9001]

On 24/12/2020 at 17:15, AMJ said:

Just done a quick Google image search for the past 50 years of covers and without running the statistical analysis on them they look to have steam items on about 70%.

 

70's seem to be in the main Cuneo style images many include items that have never been seen as RTR models.

 

I remember the Cuneo Condor one; it took me ages to spot the mouse! 

[Trainshed Terry]

A super detailed class 31 to replace the one that died of the mazak worm. PLEASE.

 

Terry.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Downer said:

Just out of interest, here's list of steam locomotive classes which, as far as I know, have not been made or announced as RTR models, yet had 40 or more locos in service as late as 1955:

 

ex-GWR

74xx 0-6-0PT

 

ex-SR

C2X 0-6-0

U 2-6-0

 

ex-LMS

Fowler 2-6-2T

Stanier 2-6-2T

Midland 2P 4-4-0

Stanier 3-cyl 2-6-4T

Johnson 0-6-0T

Fowler 0-8-0

Aspinall 0-6-0

Caledonian 0-4-4T

Drummond Caledonian 0-6-0

Midland 2F 0-6-0

 

ex-LNER

B16 4-6-0

K2 2-6-0

J6 0-6-0

J35 0-6-0

J37 0-6-0

J17 0-6-0

J25 0-6-0

J71 0-6-0T

J69 0-6-0T

N15 0-6-2T

N5 0-6-2T

A5 40-6-2T

A8 4-6-2T

 

 Admittedly, not a lot of 'wow factor' there - all black save a few 74xxs and Liverpool Street station pilots, the K2s the only namers.  But a lot of locos that people who care about modelling a particular time and area would find necessary.  Bachmann used to fill in gaps like these, and perhaps will again if and when their current troubles are sorted.  

Interesting.

 

LMS; 2P produced by Hornby but not currently available, Johnson 0-6-0T available from Bachmann.

GW; 74xx fairly easy conversion from Bachmann 64xx, remove auto gear, lip at front of cab roof, and square off corner of cab side sheet/bunker top join.  Not sure any 74xx were painted in anything other than plain black livery under BR; they were regareded as the freight version of the 64xx (itself a 'Valleys' version of the passenger 54xx) for RA restricted branches. 

 

All of those classe TTBOMK had examples surviving into the 60s. 40 is good number to specify as a 'large' class, especially where locos were geographically concentrated and would have been very commonly seen in service, such as the Caleys.

[RyanN91]

20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget they've got the franchises to two major films which are coming up. 007 and Top Gun.

 

All that Beatles stuff seems to have flown off the shelves as well.

 

I reckon they'll sell quite a few Mr Beans...

 

https://www.corgi.co.uk/mr-bean-s-mini-do-it-yourself-mr-bean.html?___store=corgi

 

 

 

It's not all toy trains....   

Ah Mr.Bean products from Corgi as part of their film and television range. This newly tooled model from the episode air date.11 January 1994 episode Do it yourself Mr. Bean. Boxing Day sales buying too much to store in his mini, which ment Mr. Bean had to rethink his ideas on order to get home. This hilarious idea which makes a good products.. Also the classic Mr. Bean mini and from the blue Reliant Regal which Mr Bean causes to crash or whatever whenever this mysterious driver appears. Thankfully TM and ©Tiger Aspect Productions Ltd 1990 and 2020 All rights reserved. Issued the licensing for these fantastic Mr.Bean Corgi products this I wonder as the same tooling from the Only Fools and Horses products licenced by BBC Studios 1981. Del boys Trotter's Independent Traders yellow Reliant Robin and Dels Ford Capri, also the coach from 1989 Christmas special the Jolly Boys outing.  I'd love to see Corgi reproduce their Fawlty Towers 1300 Austin estate with the red vehicle and Basil Fawlty figure with a branch about to give the vehicle "a dam l good thrashing" from the Gourmet Night episode from Series 1 in 1975. I personally would love to see Corgi issue more BBC Studios licensed products if the demand is there of course perhaps they could issue an Open All Hours set from the second series 1981 episode Arkwright's Mobile Store, with Nurse Gladys' Morris Minor 1000, along with the slanted Arkwright's ice cream van that Arkwiright equally badly converted the  already in a very bad unusable should be scraped condition in to an equally awful mobile store. Or a Keeping Up Appearances set with Hyacinth and Richards 1986 Rover 216. With Onslow's 1978 Ford Cortina.

[Downer]

17 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Interesting.

 

LMS; 2P produced by Hornby but not currently available, Johnson 0-6-0T available from Bachmann.

GW; 74xx fairly easy conversion from Bachmann 64xx, remove auto gear, lip at front of cab roof, and square off corner of cab side sheet/bunker top join.  Not sure any 74xx were painted in anything other than plain black livery under BR; they were regareded as the freight version of the 64xx (itself a 'Valleys' version of the passenger 54xx) for RA restricted branches. 

 

All of those classe TTBOMK had examples surviving into the 60s. 40 is good number to specify as a 'large' class, especially where locos were geographically concentrated and would have been very commonly seen in service, such as the Caleys.

The 2P produced by Hornby is not the Midland 2P, and the tank produced by Bachmann is not the Johnson Jinty.

[Dunsignalling]

27 minutes ago, RyanN91 said:

Ah Mr.Bean products from Corgi as part of their film and television range. This newly tooled model from the episode air date.11 January 1994 episode Do it yourself Mr. Bean. Boxing Day sales buying too much to store in his mini, which ment Mr. Bean had to rethink his ideas on order to get home. This hilarious idea which makes a good products.. Also the classic Mr. Bean mini and from the blue Reliant Regal which Mr Bean causes to crash or whatever whenever this mysterious driver appears. Thankfully TM and ©Tiger Aspect Productions Ltd 1990 and 2020 All rights reserved. Issued the licensing for these fantastic Mr.Bean Corgi products this I wonder as the same tooling from the Only Fools and Horses products licenced by BBC Studios 1981. Del boys Trotter's Independent Traders yellow Reliant Robin and Dels Ford Capri, also the coach from 1989 Christmas special the Jolly Boys outing.  I'd love to see Corgi reproduce their Fawlty Towers 1300 Austin estate with the red vehicle and Basil Fawlty figure with a branch about to give the vehicle "a dam l good thrashing" from the Gourmet Night episode from Series 1 in 1975. I personally would love to see Corgi issue more BBC Studios licensed products if the demand is there of course perhaps they could issue an Open All Hours set from the second series 1981 episode Arkwright's Mobile Store, with Nurse Gladys' Morris Minor 1000, along with the slanted Arkwright's ice cream van that Arkwiright equally badly converted the  already in a very bad unusable should be scraped condition in to an equally awful mobile store. Or a Keeping Up Appearances set with Hyacinth and Richards 1986 Rover 216. With Onslow's 1978 Ford Cortina.

The Reliant vans in Mr Bean and Only Fools and Horses are both Regal Supervans, neither is a Robin. The latter is a much less boxy shape and only came out in 1973. One of those would have been way too expensive for Del Boy in the period the series began.

 

John

Edited December 28, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[mdvle]

On 27/12/2020 at 14:23, The Johnster said:

Hornby are to introduce a Bluetooth Smartphone untethered DC control system, delayed until Spring at the moment, and I have pre-ordered one as I reckon it's a good idea, but I bet they don't make a penny out of it.  But they were early in the DCC field with Zero 1, proof that innovation is sometimes worth the risk.

 

Innovation?  Nope.

 

Bachmann US entered the market 5 years ago with a partnership with Bluerail Trains, who make the electronics.

 

http://bluerailtrains.com/

 

[SHerr]

I'm sure the answer to my question is within the 40 pages of this thread. However, as I can't be bothered to read all 40 pages, is there actually a date for the Hornby 2021 announcement? 

[Hroth]

6 minutes ago, SHerr said:

I'm sure the answer to my question is within the 40 pages of this thread. However, as I can't be bothered to read all 40 pages, is there actually a date for the Hornby 2021 announcement? 

Yes.

As DutyDruid says, the announcement will be on 5th January. I was looking up the time... 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Hroth
Update

[DutyDruid]

3 minutes ago, SHerr said:

I'm sure the answer to my question is within the 40 pages of this thread. However, as I can't be bothered to read all 40 pages, is there actually a date for the Hornby 2021 announcement? 

Tuesday 5th Jan @ 1000.  My suggestion is that - as usual - the site would either crash or become totally unresponsive so checking in at 1000 on the 6th is your best bet

[Hroth]

Also, a little while after the announcement, a full listing will appear here, along with threads specific to the more notable models and at least one locked thread complaining that a particular model hasn't been announced!

 

[cambo74]

There's nothing for me ....... sorry, just wanted to get in first ....

[ovbulleid]

7 hours ago, Downer said:

Just out of interest, here's list of steam locomotive classes which, as far as I know, have not been made or announced as RTR models, yet had 40 or more locos in service as late as 1955:

 

ex-GWR

74xx 0-6-0PT

 

ex-SR

C2X 0-6-0

U 2-6-0

 

ex-LMS

Fowler 2-6-2T

Stanier 2-6-2T

Midland 2P 4-4-0

Stanier 3-cyl 2-6-4T

Johnson 0-6-0T

Fowler 0-8-0

Aspinall 0-6-0

Caledonian 0-4-4T

Drummond Caledonian 0-6-0

Midland 2F 0-6-0

 

ex-LNER

B16 4-6-0

K2 2-6-0

J6 0-6-0

J35 0-6-0

J37 0-6-0

J17 0-6-0

J25 0-6-0

J71 0-6-0T

J69 0-6-0T

N15 0-6-2T

N5 0-6-2T

A5 40-6-2T

A8 4-6-2T

 

A logical but flawed way of reviewing what could be in the pipeline, given Hornby’s recent habit of modelling one-offs- Rocket, APT, W1, P2..... That list does show how LNER releases have tended to be reruns of the mainline Pacific’s and how ignored the mixed/ freight locomotives have been though.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, cambo74 said:

There's nothing for me ....... sorry, just wanted to get in first ....

But there's bound to be 'something fior everyone'.  Of course that all depends on one being the right sort of 'everyone'.

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Also, a little while after the announcement, a full listing will appear here, along with threads specific to the more notable models and at least one locked thread complaining that a particular model hasn't been announced!

 

 

 

Not forgetting the endless and tiresome mentions of frightened wallets. 

[Pete47401]

48 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

 

Not forgetting the endless and tiresome mentions of frightened wallets. 

 

Plus weak jokes about consulting SWMBO and then they'll get their coats.

 

No to mention "is it really over £100?" and of course telling us how they could make a much better one themselves out of pipe cleaners and poo.

[newbryford]

9 hours ago, Downer said:

 

A5 40-6-2T

 

 

 

That's one hell of a leading bogie..............................

[MGR Hooper!]

15 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

The investment is in marketing and design time, production capacity, and logistics - so it all costs money which could be spent on something else.

 

 Hornby's marketeers and accountants no doubt decided  that it could be done at greater overall profit than doing something else (whatever that 'something else' might be).  It is therefore a comparative risk of some sort for the company but its management have obviously decided that it is a worthwhile risk otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

 

 

- Marketing the range along with the 2020 range isn't going to cost that much more. 

 

- Design time isn't the same as actually designing a brand new loco from scratch. Besides the models were designed by Lauri Calvert. I doubt a memeber of Hornby's design team spent days/months on these. They've used what they had already. 

 

- Production capacity in a way yes, but then again these are Hornby Railroad models with something added on. So how much extra production time was eaten up? The factories that make Hornby's Railroad stuff are more likely to make other Railroad stuff and not full spec things. 

 

- Logistics.... Well every Hornby product will be part of the logistics chain. I don't see how much extra it adds. Unless I missed something. 

 

As with @TomScrut I still think it's a low investment experiment and if it fails, there's nothing much thay Hornby will lose. 

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, ovbulleid said:

A logical but flawed way of reviewing what could be in the pipeline, given Hornby’s recent habit of modelling one-offs- Rocket, APT, W1, P2..... That list does show how LNER releases have tended to be reruns of the mainline Pacific’s and how ignored the mixed/ freight locomotives have been though.

There's one MT loco for each team, B1 for the LNER, Black 5 for the LMS, Grange for the GW, S15 for the Southern, and the BR4 4-6-0. Very equitable! 

 

John