2021 hopes

[mdvle]

18 minutes ago, frobisher said:

If a factory "only makes Railroad" then that's all it will ever do, whereas you want a factory that can make production runs of whatever you need.

 

But the point is that Hornby contract with factories, they don't own them, so they don't need to use a one size fits all process.

 

Thus they can choose the appropriate factory (and it's expertise) for the production run they want.

 

So a factory can only do Hornbies Railroad stuff, as well as other "railroad" level products for other companies around the world when they aren't doing Hornby stuff, so that factory is fully utilized doing what it does best.

 

Similar for the more detailed models - they can also be doing detailed models for Australia, the US, Europe, China, etc. in any given factory that has more experienced workers who have the experience in doing detail work.

[surfsup]

13 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Problem with a Class 180 is that it only comes as a five car set, so the price would be very high and for a fairly limited market. The Northern only units suffer from only ever being in one livery, which I would imagine would crush the market down to such a low level that no manufacturer would ever take that risk, and the 185 isn't a whole lot better.

 

 

To be fair to the 180 though, they've covered as much of the country if not more than some classes we've seen modelled so far, eg Padd - Cardiff / Plymouth with FGW in Barbie, Kings Cross - Hull in FGW Barbie and HT Dynamic Lines, Northern in modified Barbie, Padd - Worcester / Newbury in FGW Dynamic Lines, Kings Cross - Bradford / Leeds / Sunderland in Grand Central and now St Pancras to the Midlands in EMR. Plus the occasional moves for refurb / overhaul etc to places like Kilmarnock or Eastleigh. 

 

185s however as you mention, are a bit of a different ball game. Given certain manufacturers seem to be working with certain companies, I would say that would be more likely to come from Bachmann if one ever comes to fruition given their previous work with Siemens on the 350 & 450s. Hornby however has worked with Alstom before though! 

[gc4946]

I don't know how much Hornby monitors eBay trends, but if they think auction prices matched or exceed their costs of producing certain items they might consider announcing them in order to get a share of the cake

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[adb968008]

38 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Problem with a Class 180 is that it only comes as a five car set, so the price would be very high and for a fairly limited market. The Northern only units suffer from only ever being in one livery, which I would imagine would crush the market down to such a low level that no manufacturer would ever take that risk, and the 185 isn't a whole lot better.

 

5 car Brighton Belle is much more geographically limited than a class 180, comes in 4 liveries only, where as 180’s have at least 6, and a long term future.

 

its price is also very reasonable...

They also sold it as a 2 car with 3 car add on pack, meaning people could make their own choices.

A 5 car 180 doesnt need “table lamps” like a belle does, so electrical lighting can be simpler...if needed at all... they are tinted windows.

 

I think that Hornby has the best receipe and the best business model for EMUs.., if only they decide to join the 21st century a little further.

 

As side the 180, Bachmann successfully made the 5 car Voyager which has been very popular.

 

The only disadvantage I see in a class 180, is it was made after 1968 so doesnt have a chimney in or around it.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

18 minutes ago, gc4946 said:

I don't know how much Hornby monitors eBay trends, but if they think auction prices matched or exceed their costs of producing certain items they might consider announcing them in order to get a share of the cake

 

I think something like this led to the re-introduction of the shortie clerestories.  

[adb968008]

32 minutes ago, gc4946 said:

I don't know how much Hornby monitors eBay trends...

 

I often wonder who is behind this ebay account.. or  if Hornby is aware of it.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/optimaldavey/m.html?item=254566598490&hash=item3b455a075a%3Ag%3AYvsAAOSw9rJeke4Q&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Edited December 29, 2020 by adb968008

[newbryford]

10 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I often wonder who is behind this ebay account.. or  if Hornby is aware of it.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/optimaldavey/m.html?item=254566598490&hash=item3b455a075a%3Ag%3AYvsAAOSw9rJeke4Q&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

The seller's location fits......

[newbryford]

4 hours ago, Jackson3592 said:

I would  like to see some ROG Mk1's & Mk2's barrier wagons along with some more NR Mk2's (no windows)

ROG MK1's - https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk1---barrier-coach.html
ROG MK2's - https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2---barrier.html
NR MK2's - https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2---departmental.html

 

Here's hoping that they don't do them.....

[adb968008]

14 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Here's hoping that they don't do them.....

Agreed.

Be careful what you wish for.. spray painting over windows has been a speciality, especially for Yellow mk2’s of late.

 

Encouraging more of the same for blue is not a forwards step.

 

it gives them excuse to say they are serving the modern image market, whilst pushing us back 30 years in standards.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by adb968008

[CazRail]

56 minutes ago, surfsup said:

 

To be fair to the 180 though, they've covered as much of the country if not more than some classes we've seen modelled so far, eg Padd - Cardiff / Plymouth with FGW in Barbie, Kings Cross - Hull in FGW Barbie and HT Dynamic Lines, Northern in modified Barbie, Padd - Worcester / Newbury in FGW Dynamic Lines, Kings Cross - Bradford / Leeds / Sunderland in Grand Central and now St Pancras to the Midlands in EMR. Plus the occasional moves for refurb / overhaul etc to places like Kilmarnock or Eastleigh. 

 

185s however as you mention, are a bit of a different ball game. Given certain manufacturers seem to be working with certain companies, I would say that would be more likely to come from Bachmann if one ever comes to fruition given their previous work with Siemens on the 350 & 450s. Hornby however has worked with Alstom before though! 

Could also help the 180s cause if they would also tool a 175, which would share a lot if not most of the tooling, just different driving cars and maybe different skirting.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

5 car Brighton Belle is much more geographically limited than a class 180, comes in 4 liveries only, where as 180’s have at least 6, and a long term future.

 

its price is also very reasonable...

They also sold it as a 2 car with 3 car add on pack, meaning people could make their own choices.

A 5 car 180 doesnt need “table lamps” like a belle does, so electrical lighting can be simpler...if needed at all... they are tinted windows.

 

I think that Hornby has the best receipe and the best business model for EMUs.., if only they decide to join the 21st century a little further.

 

As side the 180, Bachmann successfully made the 5 car Voyager which has been very popular.

 

The only disadvantage I see in a class 180, is it was made after 1968 so doesnt have a chimney in or around it.

 

Was there not some influence/co-operation/sponsorship from Virgin when the Voyager models were first done? I certainly had one in the original packaging which strongly suggested that to be the case before I sold it on eBay as it was out of my scope.

 

Back in 2002 the Voyager would have won hands down commercially vs the Class 180 anyhow, 78 sets of Voyagers (two bogie designs) which covered almost the entire country vs 14 sets of Class 180 which covered a restricted range of FGW routes. Granted, the Class 180's have spread their wings by virtue of the real things being utterly despised by operators who are always keen to move them on rather rapidly and yes, the body shape bar the cab ends is the same on the Class 175's but I would put it a fair way down the candidate list of modern image multiple units likely to yield a commercially viable model.

 

[Pint of Adnams]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Just as Hornby snapped off the chance of Bulleid suburbans instead of head to head on Bachmanns full length Bulleids, they could equally decide to do 64’ Mk1 Suburbans instead of duplicating 57’s... the 205 centre car being, a 64’ suburban*... it also leaves a gateway to class 304/5/8/504, which are 64’ Mk1 suburban based as well as the Gatwick express GLV.. which would fit nicely to the mk2e’s... mk1 suburbans are the only gap in Hornbys suburban range (GW/SR/LNE /LMS have been done by Hornby) and more importantly they are pulled by steam so attracts more Hornby dollars... so a clever tooling here could open a lot of doors...

Strictly speaking the LNER non-gangwayed stock is not 'Suburban' but secondary services. The true 'Suburban' stock, at least for the London Area, would be the various types of Quad out of King's Cross and both types of Quin and the Hertford Quads out of Liverpool Street. The former GC and GN lines also used Twins made up into sets for Outer Suburban workings whilst the former GE had the longer carriage 'Ilford' sets.

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

Given the Replica Railways 64’ suburbans are rare, £150-180 for 3 on ebay, 

 

Just as Hornby snapped off the chance of Bulleid suburbans instead of head to head on Bachmanns full length Bulleids, 

 

* I doubt they will make actually 205 centre car, but you could use a 64’ mk1 suburban to insert your 205, but its a bit of work matching the Bachmann electrical circuit... a long term project I had was to use a Replica mk1 suburban, with a left over class 205 driving car electricals, while using the other 205 car to make a 2HAP.

 

The 59ft Bulleids were never suburban stock; quite the reverse, even when relatively new, they seldom reached Waterloo other than as through portions from the further reaches of the 'Withered Arm'. They didn't really get off the WoE route until some went to the Somerset & Dorset in the late 1950s.

 

The only way Hornby would make a Class 205 centre car is as part of a complete Class 205. They aren't in the business of filling other peoples' gaps!

 

John

[1andrew1]

11 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

The seller's location fits......

Seller's location to me just says United Kingdom, I presume I'm missing something?

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

But the point is that Hornby contract with factories, they don't own them, so they don't need to use a one size fits all process.

 

Thus they can choose the appropriate factory (and it's expertise) for the production run they want.

 

So a factory can only do Hornbies Railroad stuff, as well as other "railroad" level products for other companies around the world when they aren't doing Hornby stuff, so that factory is fully utilized doing what it does best.

 

Similar for the more detailed models - they can also be doing detailed models for Australia, the US, Europe, China, etc. in any given factory that has more experienced workers who have the experience in doing detail work.

But it doesn't work like that. The factories take on work for different customers who have completely different 'images' (and reality) in respect of the accurate attention to detail in their models and which sell at very different price points.  So you can, and do, have a factory which is making what many might regard as a 'downmarket' or rather basic model for one customer - complete with detail inaccuracies drawing forth opprobrium on RMweb - while at the same time it is making models for another customer where the pundits are asking 'are saying wow and asking why can't everybody do things to that level of detail and accuracy?'.

 

Basically a customer gets what they specify, and provide the detail information to support their spec,  at the price they are prepared to pay.  do it on the cheap and you don't get what you haven't paid for.  Then allow for the fact that factories which are busy can, and do, put some work out to their less busy colleagues (although I doubt that happens with final assembly but it definitely happens with moulding work  - and possibly even with tool making?).  And don't forget too that a factory which is turning out quite high spec model railway items is in many cases also knocking out very basic plastic mouldings, far simpler than Railroad level,  for mobile phones etc.

 

As for 'experienced workers' don't forget that at many factories a substantial proportion of the assembly workers change jobs every year when they go back to work after CNY and are retrained.  One year they could be making railroad level items, the next highly detailed model railway items and the next mobile phones.  It all depends on the job and conditions they can get.

Edited December 30, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[Hilux5972]

12 hours ago, IamDaniel said:

Union of South Africa plus support coach pack?

Would be great to see a range like that. Preservation range or something. 6024, 5051, 71000, already have 46233 and 60103, do we have a 60163 yet?

[Paul.Uni]

8 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Would be great to see a range like that. Preservation range or something. 6024, 5051, 71000, already have 46233 and 60103, do we have a 60163 yet?

Tornado with 3 Scottish Railway Preservation Society Railtours carriages https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/british-railways-60163-tornado-the-aberdonian-train-pack-era-11.html

Edited December 30, 2020 by Paul.Uni

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

1 hour ago, 1andrew1 said:

Seller's location to me just says United Kingdom, I presume I'm missing something?

Sandwich is 10 mins drive from Margate, I presume the OP was referring to the fact that most/all of that sellers stuff looks to be reject/broken bits of recent Hornby stuff.

[frobisher]

13 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

But the point is that Hornby contract with factories, they don't own them, so they don't need to use a one size fits all process.

 

Thus they can choose the appropriate factory (and it's expertise) for the production run they want.

 

So a factory can only do Hornbies Railroad stuff, as well as other "railroad" level products for other companies around the world when they aren't doing Hornby stuff, so that factory is fully utilized doing what it does best.

 

Similar for the more detailed models - they can also be doing detailed models for Australia, the US, Europe, China, etc. in any given factory that has more experienced workers who have the experience in doing detail work.

 

You're talking like production runs are being handed out like piece work, like there is an infinite quantity of factories out there to do it, and like there will be factories advertising their inability to do certain levels of production, and like Railroad is less valuable to Hornby than any other production run.

 

As I've kept saying, a large chunk of Hornby's current Railroad production is main range stuff going through less production steps utilising the same tooling.  You don't want to be constantly moving that tooling between different factories.

[Bluebell Boy]

Hornby seem to rotate round the big 4 so possibly the turn of the GWR in 2021 with an all new Castle to coincide with the return to steam of Pendennis at Didcot - although I won't be surprised to see another Manor announced in a red (or blue) box

There is rumour that somebody was seen measuring up the NLR Dock Tank and SECR Dance Hall brake at the Bluebell early last year but might not have been Hornby (or not true)….

[TravisM]

14 hours ago, CazRail said:

Could also help the 180s cause if they would also tool a 175, which would share a lot if not most of the tooling, just different driving cars and maybe different skirting.

 

To quote someone "Their all the same except their different" 

[Legend]

There is a substantial nostalgia market out their , which Hornby have successfully tapped in their centenary year with Rocket and Duchess of Atholl being big sellers .  They could have sold 2 times and possibly more of the Duchess of Atholl . So I would expect Hornby to tap into the continuing nostalgia . However SK will have waited to see how succesful these models were so I would wager many will not appear until 2022 . But how about a diecast A4 , Bristol Castle , 8F etc , who knows maybe even a Barnstaple , Packaged in Hornby Dublo style . 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

There is a substantial nostalgia market out their , which Hornby have successfully tapped in their centenary year with Rocket and Duchess of Atholl being big sellers .  They could have sold 2 times and possibly more of the Duchess of Atholl . So I would expect Hornby to tap into the continuing nostalgia . However SK will have waited to see how succesful these models were so I would wager many will not appear until 2022 . But how about a diecast A4 , Bristol Castle , 8F etc , who knows maybe even a Barnstaple , Packaged in Hornby Dublo style . 

And with 3 rail pick-ups.  (I converted my 'Bristol Castle' to 2 rail so a new 3 rail one would fill a gap) 

[tomparryharry]

I do wonder if the 5-BEL power cars make an appearance. Plus, a third, but no more.  Hornby then have an opportunity to release new cars as & when a vehicle is restored.  

[Jackson3592]

16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Agreed.

Be careful what you wish for.. spray painting over windows has been a speciality, especially for Yellow mk2’s of late.

 

Encouraging more of the same for blue is not a forwards step.

 

it gives them excuse to say they are serving the modern image market, whilst pushing us back 30 years in standards.

 

 

I understand it isn’t step forward in terms of tooling however to those of us who are not skilled enough to make the modifications to standard stock it leaves us empty handed if they avoid it.
 

Is there a modelling business that converts standard releases to custom stock? if so I can understand why some would not want these to be released. 

 

I agree it shouldn’t be used as a way of ticking off the modern image market for 2021 however it should be a fairly easy win for both Hornby and modern image modellers if they were made available. 
 

The ROG barrier wagons have a been used fairly widespread over recent years with all the stock moves which have happened. A lot of different Mk3’s have been dragged around between these barrier coaches. It could lead people buying other mk3’s which Hornby offer.