2021 hopes

[Dunsignalling]

47 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And with 3 rail pick-ups.  (I converted my 'Bristol Castle' to 2 rail so a new 3 rail one would fill a gap) 

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, Mike.

 

I just don't see the point in buying half-way copies of things when it's not that difficult (and becoming less expensive) to acquire the genuine article.

 

Not that I'm in the market for either; I'd prefer Hornby to be showing us their 2020s state of the art rather than aping that of Binns Road in the late 1930s.

 

John

Edited December 30, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, Bluebell Boy said:

Hornby seem to rotate round the big 4 so possibly the turn of the GWR in 2021 with an all new Castle to coincide with the return to steam of Pendennis at Didcot - although I won't be surprised to see another Manor announced in a red (or blue) box

There is rumour that somebody was seen measuring up the NLR Dock Tank and SECR Dance Hall brake at the Bluebell early last year but might not have been Hornby (or not true)….

Why do we need an all new castle? The current one is only 9 years old. 

[Hilux5972]

5 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

Tornado with 3 Scottish Railway Preservation Society Railtours carriages https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/british-railways-60163-tornado-the-aberdonian-train-pack-era-11.html

Yes but none of those coaches are Tornados support coach. 

[frobisher]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I do wonder if the 5-BEL power cars make an appearance. Plus, a third, but no more.  Hornby then have an opportunity to release new cars as & when a vehicle is restored.  

 

As I understand it, there are substantial changes being made to the underframe and running gear of these vehicles (plus the control gear..?) so to be accurate it would be a substantially new tooling.  Not saying I wouldn't welcome it mind

[rob D2]

As the class 60 is their premier diesel, I wouldn’t mind seeing some more earlier liveries.

 

I think this year was only DB, or was it the construction one too that was a cock up at first ?

[CazRail]

25 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

As the class 60 is their premier diesel, I wouldn’t mind seeing some more earlier liveries.

 

I think this year was only DB, or was it the construction one too that was a cock up at first ?

And Colas 60021

[IamDaniel]

Another thought - I wonder if anything from the LSL/One:One collections will be modelled this year? Last year we had Bittern and the MHR Black Five and this year we've had the 9F.

[ClikC]

Class 81

 

 

[newbryford]

4 hours ago, Jackson3592 said:

I understand it isn’t step forward in terms of tooling however to those of us who are not skilled enough to make the modifications to standard stock it leaves us empty handed if they avoid it.
 

Is there a modelling business that converts standard releases to custom stock? if so I can understand why some would not want these to be released. 

 

I agree it shouldn’t be used as a way of ticking off the modern image market for 2021 however it should be a fairly easy win for both Hornby and modern image modellers if they were made available. 
 

The ROG barrier wagons have a been used fairly widespread over recent years with all the stock moves which have happened. A lot of different Mk3’s have been dragged around between these barrier coaches. It could lead people buying other mk3’s which Hornby offer. 

 

Going  

There are businesses who convert standard to custom, but it ain't me!

 

My motivation behind saying no above is exactly the same as ADB's reply - the odds are they will be painted windows and a backward step (unless they market them as Railroad) . If done correctly - the individual tooling costs per coach will most likely be prohibitive as there are very few of the test and barrier fleet that are near identical. (I'm in the middle of 4 ROG barrriers and each one has a different type of donor coach - see below)

 

What I have done - at exhibition demos and hopefully through my yellow workbench thread is show how you can make your own.

 

As for skill - it comes with practice. If you don't try, you'll never know if you have the skill or not.

Grab a couple of dud coaches from any shop/dealer/ebay and have a practice before setting to on "real" donors. 

Having said that - most of my yellow Mk2 fleet are Airfix/Dapol/Mainline based and have been acquired for less than £10 per coach.

 

(I am hoping to get some etches done so some of the ROG fleet can be easily made by others.)

[surfsup]

2 hours ago, frobisher said:

 

As I understand it, there are substantial changes being made to the underframe and running gear of these vehicles (plus the control gear..?) so to be accurate it would be a substantially new tooling.  Not saying I wouldn't welcome it mind

 

There's more than enough substantial changes under that thing to make it closer to the VEP than the Brighton Belle - the real thing uses the chassis & under frame's from CIG 1881 spliced underneath the monocoque Pullman Car bodies, with the Mk1 Gangways built on to each vehicle too. Good for those who want to travel on a B5 Bogied Pullman Car, sad for those who miss the CIGs (more so being one of the last to be saved "Greyhound" units). You certainly wouldn't be able to modify the existing tooling that's for sure! 

[Calidore]

Something which I'm surprised isn't more frequently requested is a new tooled Ivatt 2MT tank. They're versatile and geographically wide-ranging, important to modellers of two regions, several are preserved and relatively accessible to people who like to buy what they see, and the old Bachmann model is now one of the most outdated-looking in the range, in my opinion. Having seen Hornby's efforts with the Standard 2MT 2-6-0 (that lubrication piping!), this is one duplicate which I'd be more than happy to see announced.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Calidore

[Legend]

6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be, Mike.

 

I just don't see the point in buying half-way copies of things when it's not that difficult (and becoming less expensive) to acquire the genuine article.

 

Not that I'm in the market for either; I'd prefer Hornby to be showing us their 2020s state of the art rather than aping that of Binns Road in the late 1930s.

 

John

The latest Duchess of Atholl is a very different beast  and is state of the art diecast but in nostalgic packaging .  I doubt folk would consider it a “half-way copy” . Hornby have to maximise revenue . They are into big steamers . Introducing diecast is a further way to differentiate themselves in what is becoming a very crowded market .  There are less and less large locos left to model ,just some fairly ungainly Thomson Pacific’s I think , so they inevitably are going to have to cover existing subjects . Die cast is a way to do this .

 

Hornby have a rich heritage . This year has shown there is a market for nostalgia . They need to capitalise on it 

[CazRail]

17 minutes ago, Calidore said:

Something which I'm surprised isn't more frequently requested is a new tooled Ivatt 2MT tank. They're versatile and geographically wide-ranging, important to modellers of two regions, several are preserved and relatively accessible to people who like to buy what they see, and the old Bachmann model is now one of the most outdated-looking in the range, in my opinion. Having seen Hornby's efforts with the Standard 2MT 2-6-0 (that lubrication piping!), this is one duplicate which I'd be more than happy to see announced.

Agreed, I model EWS era, but I do like my 1960s branch line scenes with Ivatt 2 tanks on push pull sets and green DMUs. Here's hoping.

[DutyDruid]

37 minutes ago, Calidore said:

Something which I'm surprised isn't more frequently requested is a new tooled Ivatt 2MT tank. 

 

Quite agree, they were all over my particular part of the BR(S) Network and I would easily find an excuse to put one or two on the exhibition layouts I provide stock for - especially if they were to do a "Southern-ised" version with a 2P/2FA power classification on the cab sides.

 

Here's hoping...

[The Black Hat]

On 28/12/2020 at 15:19, Downer said:

Just out of interest, here's list of steam locomotive classes which, as far as I know, have not been made or announced as RTR models, yet had 40 or more locos in service as late as 1955:

 

ex-GWR

74xx 0-6-0PT

 

ex-SR

C2X 0-6-0

U 2-6-0

 

ex-LMS

Fowler 2-6-2T

Stanier 2-6-2T

Midland 2P 4-4-0

Stanier 3-cyl 2-6-4T

Johnson 0-6-0T

Fowler 0-8-0

Aspinall 0-6-0

Caledonian 0-4-4T

Drummond Caledonian 0-6-0

Midland 2F 0-6-0

 

ex-LNER

B16 4-6-0

K2 2-6-0

J6 0-6-0

J35 0-6-0

J37 0-6-0

J17 0-6-0

J25 0-6-0

J71 0-6-0T

J69 0-6-0T

N15 0-6-2T

N5 0-6-2T

A5 4-6-2T

A8 4-6-2T

 

 Admittedly, not a lot of 'wow factor' there - all black save a few 74xxs and Liverpool Street station pilots, the K2s the only namers.  But a lot of locos that people who care about modelling a particular time and area would find necessary.  Bachmann used to fill in gaps like these, and perhaps will again if and when their current troubles are sorted.  

 

Missing J21... but I think that might be this year after the Scottish J36 has been done. 

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Hornby have a rich heritage . This year has shown there is a market for nostalgia . They need to capitalise on it 

And quick. I'm pushing 70 and HD went down the tubes before I became a teenager. In another decade or so, there won't be too many of us left who can remember opening new HD boxes....

 

From a personal angle, I want model locos that look accurate and perform well. If diecast versions can do either, or both, better than the injection moulded ones; bring them on.

 

However, they probably don't, and I'm not interested in how they dress up the boxes.

 

John

Edited December 31, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Pint of Adnams]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

And quick. I'm pushing 70 and HD went down the tubes before I became a teenager. In another decade or so, there won't be too many of us left who can remember opening new HD boxes....

 

From a personal angle, I want model locos that look accurate and perform well. If diecast versions can do either, or both, better than the injection moulded ones; bring them on.

 

However, they probably don't, and I'm not interested in how they dress up the boxes.

 

John

Oxford Rail (excuse me for coughing) do quite well with die cast and that technique has been used for the bodies of a number of Hornby new products in recent years, especially the smaller locomotives where it provides weight.

[Downer]

7 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Missing J21... but I think that might be this year after the Scottish J36 has been done. 

There were less than fifteen J21s left in 1955.

[brushman47544]

On 29/12/2020 at 21:37, IamDaniel said:

Union of South Africa plus support coach pack?

What a good idea. Make it a special pack and effectively charge £60 for a £40 coach. Doesn’t everyone already have more than enough A4s?

[Pint of Adnams]

10 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

What a good idea. Make it a special pack and effectively charge £60 for a £40 coach. Doesn’t everyone already have more than enough A4s?

I'm an LNER man and I don't have a single one, but I'd very happily settle for a couple of streamlined B17s...

[guarded]

Get a streamlined Coronation set out there to go with those A4s.The original Mallard was my very first Hornby train,for Christmas 1979.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Oxford Rail (excuse me for coughing) do quite well with die cast and that technique has been used for the bodies of a number of Hornby new products in recent years, especially the smaller locomotives where it provides weight.

Agreed, the thing I'm uneasy about is the apparent movement towards some sort of marketing campaign dressed up as a Hornby Dublo "revival".

 

Diecast metal has very valid attributes but I am suspicious of it being promoted for its own sake rather than particular applications to which it is especially suited. I've also seen enough Mazak swell up, before crumbling to dust, to make me extremely dubious about the quality of any that emanates from the PRC.

 

Oxford Diecast's excellent models of buses and coaches contain surprisingly little "diecast" (just the outer body below window level, generally) simply because it's not the best material to represent the whole vehicle. So long as similar pragmatism is applied to any ersatz HD that Hornby produce, I'll not quibble, but I fear it may not.

 

 

John

Edited December 31, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Legend]

I am puzzled about why Hornby only made 500 Duchess of Atholls  and how that was profitable . I know they charged about £60 more than the plastic equivalent . Do diecast models use the same tooling , seems unlikely?  But if not how can it recover it’s tooling costs in a run of 500 ?  Unless tooling for diecast is not as expensive as we think it is. Just puzzled at how they made the Atholl . As always the economics of it fascinate me 

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, Legend said:

I am puzzled about why Hornby only made 500 Duchess of Atholls  and how that was profitable . I know they charged about £60 more than the plastic equivalent . Do diecast models use the same tooling , seems unlikely?  But if not how can it recover it’s tooling costs in a run of 500 ?  Unless tooling for diecast is not as expensive as we think it is. Just puzzled at how they made the Atholl . As always the economics of it fascinate me 

I presume the mechanism is the same as the plastic-bodied ones? That would help.

 

They may also have more in mind, Duchess of Montrose rings a bell from the days of yore, so they may be anticipating covering their costs with the first and making the profit on the second.

 

AIUI, diecast moulds are cheaper to make than those for plastic injection moulding (which have to withstand higher pressures) but the production process is slower, which isn't really an issue with small runs. It may also be that, if the intention is to produce only a small quantity of castings, moulds can be made from cheaper, more easily worked, materials that wear out faster.  

 

The economics might stack up differently if they wanted to make 5,000 rather than 500.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Agreed, the thing I'm uneasy about is the apparent movement towards some sort of marketing campaign dressed up as a Hornby Dublo "revival".

 

Diecast metal has very valid attributes but I am suspicious of it being promoted for its own sake rather than particular applications to which it is especially suited. I've also seen enough Mazak swell up, before crumbling to dust, to make me extremely dubious about the quality of any that emanates from the PRC.

 

Oxford Diecast's excellent models of buses and coaches contain surprisingly little "diecast" (just the outer body below window level, generally) simply because it's not the best material to represent the whole vehicle. So long as similar pragmatism is applied to any ersatz HD that Hornby produce, I'll not quibble, but I fear it may not.

 

 

John

 

29 minutes ago, Legend said:

I am puzzled about why Hornby only made 500 Duchess of Atholls  and how that was profitable . I know they charged about £60 more than the plastic equivalent . Do diecast models use the same tooling , seems unlikely?  But if not how can it recover it’s tooling costs in a run of 500 ?  Unless tooling for diecast is not as expensive as we think it is. Just puzzled at how they made the Atholl . As always the economics of it fascinate me 

I think we're looking at a number of different things here.  What we don't know is if the 'Atholl' was toe in the water test for a production method as well as a nostalgia trip (of a sort)?  Similarly we don't know to what extent dies cast technology has changed but in view of the fact that the Chinese seem to be rather good at it for small parts for the motor industry. (e.g. as from a factory in the Kader group) it would appear to be readily adaptable to model railway use but no doubt at a cost.

 

I suspect that what matters is going to be customer acceptance with past horror stories of mazak failure in our minds plus the impact it might or might not have on price.  But one things we should not overlook is that there are railway models coming out of China with diecast driving wheels and when I asked another UK 'manufacturer' about the quality of the metal being used for that purpose I was told that they have in place specifications and assurance processes to ensure that the correct material is used.