2021 hopes

[letterspider]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

If Heljan are still “ making it “ why would the livery application improve ?

As far as I thought they have offloaded the whole kit and caboodle to EFE, otherwise all you introduce is another company who wants a cut of any profit .

 

And to be honest it would have been easy to carry on making it and get more/ better distributors

The numbering font is correct in the efe class 58

Perhaps efe stands for

Effective Font Execution 

Edited January 3, 2021 by letterspider

[letterspider]

Back to the TTS chips  does an 86 sound much different from an 87 and have Hornby got a dcc ready 86 at the moment? In which case an 86 with tts would be a good seller?

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, InterCitySpud said:

2021 Hopes, as I don't need these until 2022! Hornby or anyone..

Class 310/312 AM10 EMU - zillions of liveries but I'll have a blue and a blue grey please, 4 car sets, I'll pay anything you want.

 

As has been said by another manufacturer when these sorts of requests are made, with promises of whatever the price - the first one is $200k, the second and following ones are the normal price for a X type model.

Edited January 3, 2021 by mdvle

[tomparryharry]

3 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

APART from the K-class, there are the Q-class 0-6-0s and U-class 2-6-0s and, of course, the L1 4-4-0 which Tri-ang did.   The K-class could be popular as it was built in the LBSC era.

 

AND,  there are a load of EMUs, especially the 4-COR and 4-SUB.

 

------------

 

The LBSC C2 / C2X 0-6-0s are also a possibility.  The C2X were a later rebuild with larger boilers, 29 of which had a very distinctive double dome.

 

.

 

Thank you Phil. I also forgot the I3 class atlantics. I reckon there's an era-1 model on its way, but we'll have to wait until Tuesday,...

 

Wait! There's someone at the door...  "Not you again! Crash! Bang! Wallop! Gerrof! Ouch! Arrgh! Ouch...."

 

New  announcement. 

 

"Due to circumstances beyond our control, Mr. Smith met with an 'unfortunate accident' as he appeared to fall down the stairs..... 37 times......

[County of Yorkshire]

I agree with the comment about LNER coaching stock, and that the current Gresley's are the poor relation when Hornby's coach ranges are looked at in the round. They are inaccurate (no tumblehome) and also lack the variety of diagrams needed to make up realistic rakes (no BTK or CK in the current range, and open third would also be good to see). A new range of Gresley teaks would, I think, be popular. 

 

I also think Hornby can get better at sweating their assets, by releasing new liveries and with different detail combinations. Don't we always hear a cry for more A3s in BR Early Emblem condition, SR Light Pacifics with different loco & tender combinations, or Castles in BR Late Crest with single chimney? There's the whole dynamic of wartime liveries too - I don't think Hornby have ever release a GWR loco in wartime black or in unlined green, for example. 

 

Coaches can also be issued in various new ways: for example big four coaches in departmental/engineers/ENPARTS/Weedkilling/Test Train/Control train liveries. Hattons are issuing their Genesis coaches in this way, so they must think that they will sell. 

 

Personally speaking, if all I got this year were the Collett bow-enders (either the corridor or non-corridors) released in post war Great-crest-Western livery that would do me. Or dare I say it... in wartime austerity brown?!

 

CoY

 

 

 

[Big James]

After recently servicing majority of most of my SR tender locomotives I had a thought and trawling through this thread no one mentioned it. What about the LSWR H15’s. Long lived, multiple liveries, can be turned out in LSWR colours for the pre-grouping colours, survived to the BR period and there was 26 of them. 
But what goes against them is none have been preserved and they look quite similar to the n15 (but I don’t think that’s a drawback like it used to be).

 

Big James

[Fishoutofwater]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

We've been waiting several years for the low-window Maunsell "Somerset & Dorset" 3-set to be released in that livery, so it might be a while..... 

 

John

but in all that time no other manufacturer has threatened to produce any bulleids, until now.

[GordonC]

On 29/12/2020 at 18:46, mdvle said:

 

Yes, that's the conventional wisdom - but like any wisdom it's only true until/if it gets proven false.

 

At some point someone will attempt a longer DMU/EMU and the competitors will watch to see what happens.

 

 

 

Obviously EMR (or someone else) picking up the units will help - and better if it is a popular modelling region.

 

But there could be a market there in say 2022/2023 to have as a complement to the Accurascale Mk5a models (2021 being risky as people pay for their Mk5a sets).

 

 

Widespread geographically, but not population (and hence potential pool of modellers), and the single livery will be an issue.

 

That said, I think more likely from Accurascale as they have a relationship already with CAF and they appear to have a better financial model and appetite for risk of doing the CAF family of 195/331/397 and any potential mold sharing.

 

Class 195s - Widespread geographically but not population. Seriously???

 

They're used right across the North of England including Liverpool, Chester, Manchester, Barrow, Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Hull, Chester, York and everywhere in between. Adding up the North West, North East and Yorkshire and Humber regions would give around 15.5M people. and we've had other single livery models before - APT, Pendolino, Hornby Class 466 on release

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

It might be interesting, and certainly revelatory, to see what DVDs you have on your shelves  

 

You would be disapointed (or relieved). The closest is Wonder Woman (2017 film) in Blu-ray 4K next to Aquaman. No the purist in me would be a real representation of her armour in thick (4mm) hard leather that might actually stop a sword blow (honest guv, nothing kinky). I already did her shield (my avatar) and bracers in steel with leather backing and currently working on her sword (high tensile sprung steel).  My wife wants the costume close to real.

 

But Hornby have all the rights so they could easily branch into it other than those cheap, most China players on Amazon and E-bay whose quality I don't trust. 

And figures? They could have spat out all the DC characters plus Harry potter into 1/76th by now. The latter has the train, bus and car already in OO gauge.

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, Fishoutofwater said:

but in all that time no other manufacturer has threatened to produce any bulleids, until now.

I have loads of Bulleid coaches, all bar the newest three of which are Bachmann. Hornby filled the obvious gap by making the short ones partly because they were able to obtain some extra mileage from their existing Maunsell underframe design work.

 

Until Hornby's Maunsells came along, It was a truism that we Southern fans got almost all our locos in red boxes and almost all our coaches and wagons in blue ones. Bachmann are soon to revisit items they have made before, with a couple of additions.

 

If the Terrier was "Hornby territory" by historic right , Bachmann have a considerably longer-standing claim on 63' Bulleids! 

 

John

Edited January 3, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Coppercap]

37 minutes ago, County of Yorkshire said:

 

Personally speaking, if all I got this year were the Collett bow-enders (either the corridor or non-corridors) released in post war Great-crest-Western livery that would do me. Or dare I say it... in wartime austerity brown?!

 

CoY

 

 

 

I'd like the corridors in their original faux-panelling livery (Simon personally assured me that's easy do-able, but he couldn't say when exactly, so I'm certain that they are working on them, just slowly) , and I'd also like the non-corridors in the pre-roundel livery.

Please. I'll buy a full set of each, promise.   And the corridor restaurant too - I know you're working on that too, as that'll finish the set off nicely. Oh, and a Saint to pull them - there just happens to be a nice one to measure at Didcot. Oh, did I hear someone say a team had been seen measuring it? 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Coppercap

[TomScrut]

15 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Class 195s - Widespread geographically but not population. Seriously???

 

They're used right across the North of England including Liverpool, Chester, Manchester, Barrow, Sheffield, Leeds, Nottingham, Hull, Chester, York and everywhere in between. Adding up the North West, North East and Yorkshire and Humber regions would give around 15.5M people. and we've had other single livery models before - APT, Pendolino, Hornby Class 466 on release

 

I agree, I don't understand why Bachmann didn't do the 158 in Northern at launch either unless they were worried about a clash with the 150. They have more 158s than anybody.

 

The 195s sound like they'll only get more common too, I think I read in last Rail magazine they were considering more to standardise on stock/staff training etc.

[Dunsignalling]

4 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I agree, I don't understand why Bachmann didn't do the 158 in Northern at launch either unless they were worried about a clash with the 150. They have more 158s than anybody.

 

The 195s sound like they'll only get more common too, I think I read in last Rail magazine they were considering more to standardise on stock/staff training etc.

With all the upheaval on Northern over recent years, I'd imagine they were scared there would be a franchisee/livery change while the darned things were on the boat!

 

John

Edited January 3, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[DK123GWR]

  

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As ever, I come back to what sort of railways are familiar to youngsters?  Unless they travel to school using the train I bet the only sort of railway the overwhelming majority of pre-teenagers (and many teenagers) have ever seen up close or have ridden on was one using steam engines and, most likely by the law of averages, Mk1 coaching stock (or something even older than a Mk1).  As for diesels and DMUs they're also far more likely to have seen, ridden on, or been hauled by something from the late 1950s/60s than anything built since the  1990s

I would say that for trips to Bath/Bristol/London with friends (under ordinary circumstances) the most popular option is probably a trip along the GWML, sometimes involving Instagram posts of stations and train interiors. If the ticket prices were lower,young people would travel by rail even more. Bear in mind that teenagers:

1) Mostly care about the environment

2) Cannot drive

Both of those lead them to use rail travel. Even people without an 'interest' in railways notice changes on the national network and I have heard appreciative comments about the aesthetics of IETs in the course of standard conversations. I would therefore challenge the notion that young people are more likely to have visited heritage railways than used the national network - it simply doesn't fit with how my peers behave.

[wombatofludham]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

If Heljan are still “ making it “ why would the livery application improve ?

As far as I thought they have offloaded the whole kit and caboodle to EFE, otherwise all you introduce is another company who wants a cut of any profit .

 

And to be honest it would have been easy to carry on making it and get more/ better distributors

As our Supreme Leader has confirmed the EFE 58s are still being made by Heljan, I think I can rest my case.  As for improved livery application, we've already covered the typeface issue on the redstripe Railfreight release (with added weathering) but as I recall the original Heljan release had incorrect coloured doors on the RF Coal examples which has now been corrected.  Livery application on the Heljan Hymek released by EFE has also been tightened up.

Clearly all parties in this "franchise" deal are happy with the commercial arrangements which just goes to show that we as enthusiasts know sweet fanny adams about the way model railway manufacturers work which is why I frankly howl with laughter at some of the "x won't sell" or "y is a sure fire sales success" suggestions made.  I recall some people authoritatively saying "electrics don't sell". Hasn't stopped several hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of investment in new models coming forward though.

[mdvle]

47 minutes ago, GordonC said:

we've had other single livery models before - APT, Pendolino, Hornby Class 466 on release

 

APT, Pendolino - iconic trains with appeal to the collectors market as well as with the very large general market who run what they like - something like the Class 195 isn't going to have the same appeal and hence market potential.

 

Class 466 - different era - as a 1998 release it comes from an era with few new releases a year, and thus much more of a "you'll buy what we choose to make".  With a lot more manufacturers competing for the hobby £, and typically more than 20 new tooled items a year, that attitude no longer works.  And given only 2 releases (and a couple of special limited runs for a retailer) in 22 years, it appears to have been a if not a failure then not the success likely hoped for.

[letterspider]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

As has been said by another manufacturer when these sorts of requests are made, with promises of whatever the price - the first one is $200k, the second and following ones are the normal price for a X type model.

 

At $200k for a model you'll need Rod Stewart's PayPal address, may afford to hire Penny Lancaster for less.

[adb968008]

I wonder if Drax wagons are being re-released afterall.

 

Ebay is completely flooded with them, despite being rare as rocking horse.. the last few years, they've rapidly emerged in the last few days.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by adb968008

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But as a matter of interest how many folk in the more general area of model railway/trainset buyers are familiar with all sorts of things offered by the various 'manufacturers. and commissioners?  Hornby have reportedly 'sold out' to some retailers of one version of the LNER 10000 and you'd have to be well over 90 to have any sensible personal memories of that in its original form and its nearly 62 years since the rebuilt version was withdrawn.

As ever, I come back to what sort of railways are familiar to youngsters?  Unless th

Yes but.. how many w1’s have been made in the last 35 years ?

I’m confident its a lot less than class 58’s.

 

There seems to be a mindset in some that only steam sells.

Hornbys made more than 20 releases of Class 58, Heljan more than 10.

 

I cant see the W1 being retooled by a competitor in the future with more than 30 releases.

 

Personally these 1 hit wonders of steam are nice, but I dont see long term future in them. Even the APT i cant see 12 releases in 12 liveries...  

 

Theres a mind gap between “modern” and “pre-1994”.

I have to assume theres an age gap or an agenda accompanying it.

 

personally dragging up railroad quality diesels of BR era is a short road, unless they are in a cheap and cheerful trainset... class 29 in Southern livery ? Otherwise why bother, they’d never make Mallard in Virgin Trains livery, for exactly the same reasons.

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder if Drax wagons are being re-released afterall.

 

Ebay is completely flooded with them, despite being rare as rocking horse.. the last few years, they've rapidly emerged.

 

Yes, unfortunately 8 sold for £75 each the other day too which I'd have bought had they not been snapped up.

 

But yes there are a LOT more than usual although they may be riding the wave of the high prices.

 

They are also of course in different liveries in real life now. Maybe they have been commissioned/done.

 

As I think I said earlier in the thread, Revolution said they couldn't do OO because of Hornby IIRC (or words to that effect) which to me means there is a finger on the pulse, not "We made them, they'll never happen again" as if that's the case why not let Revolution do it. I'd have thought they'd have done an EOI at least in OO if they could.

Edited January 3, 2021 by TomScrut

[mdvle]

20 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Theres a mind gap between “modern” and “pre-1994”.

I have to assume theres an age gap or an agenda accompanying it.

 

Simple economics.  The hobby has always been dominated by the approx. 45 to 65 age group, those who have raised kids and they are now off, so they now have the time and funds (and space) to get serious about the hobby.

 

And while steam/early diesel will never entirely go away, most of us (based on spending) tend to model what we saw in our teen years.

 

Which means the current "big thing" in sales is BR sectors era - mid 80s to mid 90s, with still a bunch of early 80s thrown in.

 

(which isn't saying no-one models the current stuff, but rather as a percentage of the market and thus potential available £'s it is still smallish - and similarly it doesn't mean younger people aren't in the hobby - but rather they don't have access in general to the same amounts of disposable income)

 

Go forward a decade, and we will be into the early privatisation era.

 

[Legend]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

I hope Hornby move into Cosplay and do the full Wonder Woman costume in real leather. Well, they do have the Warner Brothers rights....

Or at least some 1/76th scale Wonder Woman figures for the layout.

more like the Russ Abbott version.........Blunderwoman

[mdvle]

6 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Simple economics.  The hobby has always been dominated by the approx. 45 to 65 age group, those who have raised kids and they are now off, so they now have the time and funds (and space) to get serious about the hobby.

 

And while steam/early diesel will never entirely go away, most of us (based on spending) tend to model what we saw in our teen years.

 

Which means the current "big thing" in sales is BR sectors era - mid 80s to mid 90s, with still a bunch of early 80s thrown in.

 

(which isn't saying no-one models the current stuff, but rather as a percentage of the market and thus potential available £'s it is still smallish - and similarly it doesn't mean younger people aren't in the hobby - but rather they don't have access in general to the same amounts of disposable income)

 

Go forward a decade, and we will be into the early privatisation era.

 

 

Which to be clear, doesn't mean I agree with Hornby's choices (or disagree entirely either).

 

Given the amount of competition a well lead company should already be looking into the next decade and deciding what projects that they want to do - and hence stake a claim to.  This may (and likely will) mean releasing a model sooner than they would prefer, simply to prevent a competitor taking the model.  Which means in addition to staking claims to the the various loco classes (37/47/etc) they need to start looking at the DMU/EMU's that took over the prototypes when the big purge of old slam door stock started.

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, mdvle said:

Given the amount of competition a well lead company should already be looking into the next decade and deciding what projects that they want to do - and hence stake a claim to. 

 

Which I think the 800 is in that respect a masterstroke assuming they can and want to adapt the tooling easily for the rest of them (now there are 800, 801, 802, 803, 805, 807 and 810, was 804).

[sc2016]

46 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

As I think I said earlier in the thread, Revolution said they couldn't do OO because of Hornby IIRC (or words to that effect) which to me means there is a finger on the pulse, not "We made them, they'll never happen again" as if that's the case why not let Revolution do it. I'd have thought they'd have done an EOI at least in OO if they could.

I think that iirc Hornby was contacted by Drax themselves to do the hoppers in oo gauge so it is probable that Drax/ Hornby have got an exclusivity agreement for the OO Gauge Model so no else would be able to do it. A bit like Dapol with the Class 68 and Accurascale with the Mk5 Coaches.