2021 hopes

[Ruffnut Thorston]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The 14xx is a bit of an odd situation, a very popular loco that is bound to sell, but there has never been a satisfactory RTR model in 00.  The Airfix was pretty good in it’s day, but  eventually proved to have a weakness in the form of the sprung plunger pickups, and with no cab detail, does not cut the modern hi-fi RTR mustard.  This was AFAIK continued unaltered by Replica, then by Hornby, who, since taking on the body tooling (which to be fair has little to complain about on it, especially considering it’s age) have retooled the chassis. 
 

This model, currently in the Railroad range and still with no cab detail, has running issues.  
 

>Snipped...

 

The Airfix 14XX went via Mainline to Dapol, who I believe started the modified chassis, doing away with the universal joint and cardan shaft drive of the original Airfix design. These used a small motor, the same type as in the OO Gauge Dapol Terrier.

 

Hornby acquired the tools of both from Dapol.

 

There was a problem with the first Hornby Railroad issue, which apparently did away with the sprung rear axle. This apparently caused running issues, coupled with the traction tyres on the rear coupled wheels.

 

I think that I have heard that more recent Railroad models are better runners?

 

I haven’t had any experience of the Railroad 14XX...

[adb968008]

18 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I think that I have heard that more recent Railroad models are better runners?

 

I haven’t had any experience of the Railroad 14XX...

Those released around Warley 2-3 years back were a bag of nails.

The rear springs had gone, and the axlebox squared with the round axle in.

The best thing was to buy an old spring set and refit them yourself, and drill the axlebox a little. After that it did run, but needed traction tyres.

 

Their never has been a good 14xx in my opinion, but the DJM model, for its faults was probably the best so far, but still pulls nowt.
 

Its a model that really needs to be made in die cast, filling as much of the body with weight, including all the boiler and side tanks, a vertical motor in the firebox, pickups on all wheels, gearing on at least 2, a chip thats hidden between the wheels and a speaker in the bunker, with output via the coal space doors in the footplate... tbh Hornby has shown to be the best manufacturer of recent times in making 4wheelers successful.. Peckett is brilliant... make it’s mechanicals bigger...

 

But if its going to be north of £130.. just wait 10 years first, let the DJ ones die out, as many will still shrug shoulders and it could still come back in a revised form.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008

[Rockalaucher101]

1 minute ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I think that I have heard that more recent Railroad models are better runners?

I thought the recent Railroad one was the one with the problem.

I seem to remmeber a review by Sam's Trains showing that the guide wheel at the back is not sprung and so lifts off the rear set of drivers. Funnily enough the one with the traction tyre on it.

[trevor7598]

A 4SUB or a Tin HAL for me. Only two bodywork tools required for a  46xx SUB.

 

The 59' Bulleids in Blood and custard, using the ' as built ' tooling.

 

And the 1935 Driving brake compo from the push-pull set, retooled as a BCK,

this coach in my opinion is the finest, most accurate Maunsell coach Hornby have ever produced.

 

Not too greedy is it!.

[Great Eastern Lady]

For me personally i would like to see

Holden T26/E4 , 2-4-0

Holden G69/F6 , 2-4-2T

Holden S56/J69 , 0-6-0T

GER corridor bogie carriages in Crimson

 

Others that i would love to see , although they would not be for me as i'm not modelling them are

Urie G16 , 4-8-0T

Urie H16 , 4-6-2T

Maunsell W Class , 2-6-4T

And

LNER J94 

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The 14xx is a bit of an odd situation, a very popular loco that is bound to sell, but there has never been a satisfactory RTR model in 00.  The Airfix was pretty good in it’s day, but  eventually proved to have a weakness in the form of the sprung plunger pickups, and with no cab detail, does not cut the modern hi-fi RTR mustard.  This was AFAIK continued unaltered by Replica, then by Hornby, who, since taking on the body tooling (which to be fair has little to complain about on it, especially considering it’s age) have retooled the chassis. 
 

This model, currently in the Railroad range and still with no cab detail, has running issues.  The alternative is the Hattons/DJM, and I am uncertain of the availability at present given the collapse of DJM.  This is more like a modern RTR effort, with cab detail, but the loco has a poor reputation for it’s running quality.  It cost almost double the current Horby version, but that is also apparently a poor runner. 
 

An 0-4-2, especially a tank loco that cannot transfer it’s weight to a tender, is not easy to balance to sit with all it’s wheels on the track picking up current reliably unless it has a fully compensated chassis, which cannot be done in a volume produced RTR model at a price acceptable to the market, so I have some sympathy for anyone trying to design one. The radial truck will lift the rear drivers clear of the railhead if it is sprung too strongly, and the front ones of it is not sprung strongly enough, affecting pickup and running. 
 

Despite CoY’s assessment, I would not be suprised to see a completely retooled 14xx from Hornby, but it will not be in the Railroad range and is going to be a bot on the pricey side to recoup the high development costs of making sure it is a reliable runner, nor is it going to happen for some time. 

My Hattons/DJM 14xx is fine, as are many others. Those less fortunate have understandably kicked up a fuss about theirs.

 

I also have an old Dapol one, basically the same as the current Hornby offering but with (imho) a better motor. Was something of a bouncy runner but filling the bunker with lead cured that. Clearly only available s/h but a sound bet if you can find a good one.

 

John

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

I wouldn't mind them just re-introducing the Merchant Navy to the range, if only in the hope the valve gear can be sold as spares...

 

At risk of setting off a mad panic... (as most retailers are showing out of stock) but....

 

 

But after 3 years R3632 BR, Merchant Navy Class, 4-6-2, 35024 'East Asiatic Company' in BR 1948 Express Blue is showing as imminently due in stock at Hornby.

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008

[Rockalaucher101]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

 

At risk of setting off a mad panic... (as most retailers are showing out of stock) but....

 

 

But after 2 years R3632 BR, Merchant Navy Class, 4-6-2, 35024 'East Asiatic Company' is showing as imminently due in stock at Hornby.

oooh Nice, might pick one up I don't know.

 

Sadly not going to revive my rebuilt examples though.

[adb968008]

15 minutes ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

oooh Nice, might pick one up I don't know.

 

Sadly not going to revive my rebuilt examples though.

Valve gear tends to sell about £30 as a spare, you might just want to buy a  spare chassis off ebay for c£45, do a swap and put your old chassis back on ebay, probably get £25 for it, maybe more depending on the remains condition.

 

Theres a healthy need for Bulleid pony wheels (35005 and mazak rot) and bulleid wheel crankpins (tendency for screw heads to snap inside) on both MN and WC, so the chassis will find a taker.

Ive got at least one WC using a MN wheel and MN valve gear.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008

[Rockalaucher101]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Ive got at least one WC using a MN wheel and MN valve gear.

 

Are the wheels and valve gear largely interchangable?

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Legend said:

Yes a new open cab Pannier could be a possibility, but wouldn’t a Metro tank be something different ? 

 

Given that we have been discussing a new tooling for a 14xx, perhaps a 517 is more likely,

 

6 hours ago, Legend said:

If you are doing a 14XX you might as well do an Autocoach

 

Same goes for Metro and  517, and some half-cab panniers.  I condone the  idea of a retooled auto trailer even if it's another A28 or A30 (the old indentity-challenged Airfix in the Railroad range is well past it's sell by), but if we're wishlisting, can I have a diagram N please?  Or an A31.  Or an A9. Or all of them...

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Are the wheels and valve gear largely interchangable?

It was the front most driving wheel I swapped or  a rear (not the one with the gear )... it was painless its run with it for at least 5 years.

 

I think ive done it twice, on a different loco, in the case if the second I recall one loco where the rear crankpin had a speedo attached, the screw had broken in it, so I knocked out the centre wheel crank pin on the left over set acquired  above, and swapped it in the rear one (same size).

 

The other occasion was a set of MN valve gear used to replace a broken set on a 34088. I recall it wasnt a straight forwards fit, I think the holes on the brackets were in different places, so I had to file a lug off and drill a hole, again not too hard, but I found the idea on rmweb somewhere.

i have a few Bulleid bits left over, what is it your needing ?

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008

[Ollie P Learning OO gauge]

I’d love to see a re tooling of the 800 IEP to make the TPE 802, but they may wait until the EMR and Avanti ones come out before they bother, this is a shot in the sark but TPE class 397 would be awesome! And for goodness sake Hornby bring out some new DRAX wagons!

[MGR Hooper!]

11 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

And for goodness sake Hornby bring out some new DRAX wagons!

 

What others Drax wagons are there?  I only know of two Drax hoppers. One that Accurascale are doing (not DRAX branded) and one that Hornby did as a commission for Drax. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[Ollie P Learning OO gauge]

19 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

What others Drax wagons are there?  I only know of two Drax hoppers. One that Accurascale are doing and one that Hornby did as a commission for Drax (which cannot be produced again, in fact I recall reading that the tooling was destroyed too). 

 If you look at the new DRAX wagons in N gauge there are new liveries. It’s such a shame they destroyed the tooling it’s such a waste. Accurascale are doing GBRF biomass but not DRAX biomass I believe. 

[MGR Hooper!]

33 minutes ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

 If you look at the new DRAX wagons in N gauge there are new liveries. It’s such a shame they destroyed the tooling it’s such a waste. Accurascale are doing GBRF biomass but not DRAX biomass I believe. 

 

The DRAX biomass hoppers that Hornby did were commissioned by DRAX themselves. The tooling doesn't belong to Hornby, they belong to DRAX. 

 

DRAX had the models made by Hornby and sold exclusively via Hattons. It was a one time thing and they'll never be made again whether the tooling exists or not. 

[Covkid]

On 10/12/2020 at 16:09, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Err, I think if you want to make up a train that existed once or twice EVER to carry out some tests, mostly nocturnally, then what you do with the thick end of £1000 worth of rolling stock behind closed doors is nobody else's business! Quite how many units Hornby would shift by packaging this up together as if it were a real train commonly seen out and about on the national network I'd not like to guess, but I imagine it to be in single figures.

 

I can sort of understand some commercial viability in doing the Midland Pullman for people who just buy "stuff they like the look of" and want a train that will run 20x a year nationwide running round their layout but this idea is a step into the surreal...

 

 

Frankly the DATS operations are of no interest to me, but there are plenty of modellers who like the unusual stuff - the APT-E being a good example.  I was thinking of resprays / rebrands of current Hornby tooling, but I am obviously no expert in the commerciality of products.   

[TomScrut]

49 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

What others Drax wagons are there?  I only know of two Drax hoppers. One that Accurascale are doing and one that Hornby did as a commission for Drax (which cannot be produced again, in fact I recall reading that the tooling was destroyed too). 

 

The AS ones are GBRF, not Drax as such (because Drax don't own them), but go there regularly.

 

I am presuming the OP is wanting the Drax ones as per the Revolution release (I am wanting a rerun/new tooling of these too), there are 2 new liveries Hornby never did. Although I'd not fancy spending £75 a go for them I probably would if they were redone. Why would they destroy the tooling?

 

Technically if you're including the GBRF ones as Drax wagons because they go there then the Greenbrier IIA Tanoos wagons also occasionally do deliver biomass to Drax (they mostly do the Lynemouth runs). I'd be keen for a release of these too. I base my rolling stock around York so Biomass is a good proportion of the freight.

[rope runner]

6 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

they'll never be made again whether the tooling exists or not. 

 

Let's be honest, nobody can say that.

 

Plenty of examples where limited editions or items have appeared again in all walks of life - there's no contract to say this and just like a bands "farewell" or "final tour", there's no substance to it. 

 

Paul A. 

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

The DRAX biomass hoppers that Hornby did were commissioned by DRAX themselves. The tooling doesn't belong to Hornby, they belong to DRAX. 

 

DRAX had the models made by Hornby and sold exclusively via Hattons. It was a one time thing and they'll never be made again whether the tooling exists or not. 

 

How is it certain that it will never happen again? When asked about OO Revolution said something about Hornby owning the rights (or something on those lines) which gives inference that there is some existing financial interest.

 

And the Revolution thing might be just what is needed to spark the idea in Drax/Hornby's heads that there may be a bit of money to be made. For example if the person at Drax responsible for licensing the wagons thinks "Revolution can justify doing it and paying us a worthwhile amount of money, so surely the tooling we own (if it still exists) could be of commercial use"

[D9020 Nimbus]

17 hours ago, County of Yorkshire said:

First, is the sizeable minority asking for a retooled GWR 14xx. It's not going to happen; the Hattons/DJM might have a ropey mechanism, but the body is sublime. I can see that eventually finding its way back to market via the EFE range with maybe, just maybe, a revised mechanism

I’d have thought the (lack of a) relationship between Hattons — who own the tooling — and Bachmann (who own EFE) would rule that one out… seems to me a new 14xx will come soon from somebody, if not from Hornby then Dapol, who have done it in O recently, and N — just like the Terrier, really…

 

Unlike CoY, I don't see Accurascale picking off any steam loco — how many steam locos have they done so far?

 

 

[adb968008]

20 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I’d have thought the (lack of a) relationship between Hattons — who own the tooling — and Bachmann (who own EFE) would rule that one out… seems to me a new 14xx will come soon from somebody, if not from Hornby then Dapol, who have done it in O recently, and N — just like the Terrier, really…

 

Unlike CoY, I don't see Accurascale picking off any steam loco — how many steam locos have they done so far?

 

 

It could come back from Hattons too, with some mods.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

The DRAX biomass hoppers that Hornby did were commissioned by DRAX themselves. The tooling doesn't belong to Hornby, they belong to DRAX. 

 

DRAX had the models made by Hornby and sold exclusively via Hattons. It was a one time thing and they'll never be made again whether the tooling exists or not. 

I didnt hear the tooling was destroyed.

 

I just heard is was an exclusive commission for Drax.

If the tooling exists (which I dont see why not), then Drax could turn the handle again, or accept an agreement for Hornby to do it.

 

Never say never.

 

Agreed there could be a long wait.

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by adb968008

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

1 hour ago, Covkid said:

 

Frankly the DATS operations are of no interest to me, but there are plenty of modellers who like the unusual stuff - the APT-E being a good example.  I was thinking of resprays / rebrands of current Hornby tooling, but I am obviously no expert in the commerciality of products.   

At least the APT did something, looked quite nice and was high profile, the latter two characteristics have already sold many Midland Pullman livery HSTs in many peoples minds. My "it would cost a £1000 to replicate" may have been closer to the mark that I thought; 2x EMR livery with DATS branding power cars- £250, TWO Class 91's in LNER livery (as they won't do a "dummy" 91!)- £400. One Mk3 DVT in DATS- £50 and assorted livery Mk3 @ £35 each all-in comes to £980!!

 

[Islesy]

2 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

It’s such a shame they destroyed the tooling it’s such a waste.

Not sure where you got that information from, as it definitely still exists ;-)