Jump to content
 

the Tams company and LS Digital has announced a new command Station


Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold

Hello There, 
the Tams company and LS Digital has announced a new command Station

 

see; https://tams-online.de/epages/642f1858-c...EasyControl/mc2

see;   https://www.lsdigital-shop.de/produkt/infinitycube/

 

Digital formats
Motorola-I and -II
DCC (according to NMRA and RCN standards)
m3 (to control mfx decoders, no feedback)
Vehicle decoder addresses:

Motorola: 255 (1 - 255)
DCC: 10,239 (1 - 10239)
m3: 16.384
Speed steps:

Motorola: 14 or 27 (a or b)
DCC: 14, 28 or 128
m3: 128
functions:

Motorola: function, f1 to f4
DCC: f0 to f31 or f32.768
m3: f0, f1 to f14
Accessory decoder addresses:

Motorola: 1,020 (1 - 1,020)
DCC: 2,040 (1 - 2,040)
m3: ---
 

Feedback Formats
RailCom:
integrated global RailCom detector
RailCom-Cutout can be switched off for the integrated booster
 

DCC-A:
enables the automatic registration of DCC vehicle decoders with the control centre
The extension of the DCC format is currently (as of November 2020) available as a draft standard of the RailCommunity and is expected to be adopted in 2021.
 
Power supply
Switching power supply with 24 Volt / 6.67 A / 160 W (included in delivery)
to supply the central unit and the tracks in the booster section of the integrated booster
 
Interfaces
 
For connecting external control units:

Märklin CAN bus (Mini-Din 10-pin)
LocoNet (RJ 12)
EasyNet (RJ 45)
XpressNet (RJ 12)
rec / "Sniffer" (2-pole)
Computer interface:

LAN (RJ 45)
Other interfaces:

Power supply
Main track and DCC programming track
external booster (either Märklin-compatible or DCC-compliant)
BiDiB (RJ 45)
s88 feedback modules (RJ 45 according to standard s88-N). Maximum number of s88 modules: 64 s88 or s88-compatible modules (1,024 contacts)
 

Dimensions and weight of the control unit (without power supply)
Dimensions: 170 x 150 x 82 mm
weight: 830 g
 
Integrated booster
output current:

max. 6,5 A
Short circuit sensitivity:

1 - 6,5 A
adjustable in steps of 0.5 A
output voltage:

8 to 22 V digital voltage (regulated)
adjustable in steps of 1 V

Output signal: balanced

 

Infinity 1.PNG

Infinty.PNG

Infiny 2.PNG

Tams Back.PNG

Tams front.PNG

Tams top .PNG

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Seems to support almost everything - but with ££££ to match! - or rather €€€€ ;-)

 

The output at 6.5A seems to aim at the larger layout with many locos active simultaneously.

 

One item that slightly disappoints is the lack of WiFi support - they have included Ethernet for computer connection which is good, but you would have to connect it through a router to get WiFi, which limits its flexibility somewhat. I note that the (much cheaper) Digikeijs DR5000 does include WiFi.

 

Mike.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This 6 amp Tams MC² m.r.p. is €549 ..... (It might be lower when discounted through retailers).

There's an introductory price of €499 until 31/12/20.

 

The 6 amp Roco Z21 XL is listed at €600 

The 6 amp ESU ECoS 2.1 is listed at €625, but also includes the control interface (2x throttles) and the 7" touch display.

 

They're all on the pricy side, but fairly comparable as far as price band is concerned.

 

 

.

 

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

.....One item that slightly disappoints is the lack of WiFi support - they have included Ethernet for computer connection which is good, but you would have to connect it through a router to get WiFi, which limits its flexibility somewhat......

 

Strange that WiFi isn't built-in, considering Tams' Red Box DCC system has it as an option.

 

Using the Loconet facility, maybe it's possible that a Digitrax LNWI can be used to provide direct connections with smartphones and tablets?

 

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Chalk & Cheese

 

It changes colour and has sound !!!!  (note the audio output).

 

Seriously, the top of the casing is translucent and changes colour according the status.

Green for normal operation.

Red for Stop. Track voltage switched off.

Pulsing White when waiting to be assigned an IP address (set-up).

Violet. Track short circuit.

White with circling purple dot. System update in progress.

 

The audio line-out output can be used to control active speakers or an amplifier with passive speakers.

Tams say, initially at launch, the MC²  will be able to save and call up background sounds. 

With a later software version (available for download free of charge), it should then also be possible to call up sounds triggered by switching functions.

That must be a first as a built-in feature?

 

 

.

 

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
  • Like 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Chalk & Cheese

Well, perhaps, although it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

 

But my main point is that these days WiFi is mainstream and an important mechanism for freeing kit from cables. Even the latest £35 Raspberry Pi 4 has WiFi as standard, which I think shows that it is not an expensive feature to include.

 

Mike.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
27 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

Well, perhaps, although it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

 

But my main point is that these days WiFi is mainstream and an important mechanism for freeing kit from cables. Even the latest £35 Raspberry Pi 4 has WiFi as standard, which I think shows that it is not an expensive feature to include.

 

Mike.

The Z21 has separate WiFi from a Hub but as other things are also plugged into the hub on my system, it isn't a problem.

 

BTW the obsolete PCDuino also had WiFi some years ago

Link to post
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

Well, perhaps, although it depends on what you're trying to achieve.

 

But my main point is that these days WiFi is mainstream and an important mechanism for freeing kit from cables. Even the latest £35 Raspberry Pi 4 has WiFi as standard, which I think shows that it is not an expensive feature to include.

 

Mike.

 

Wi-Fi is most definitely not mainstream, it is used by some home operators when wiring (or their skills) don't permit cables to be used. when running model railways cable should always be used over Wi-Fi as the protocols used are UDP (do not confuse this with TCP)  which means that runaways and other issues can happen as the command station simply sends the message and there is no confirmation of it being received, accepted or acted upon - Wi-Fi is especially dangerous in places where the wi-fi is congested.

 

Many exhibitors have learned to their cost that wi-fi is far from reliable. At the last Warley exhibition sales stands ran out of wired hands sets for sale to the public as exhibitors using wi-fi realised the problem and all rushed to replace the Wi-Fi handsets with cabled handsets.

 

The fact is that anyone looking at buying a DR5000 is in a different marketplace to someone buying a this device as the DR5000 is a much lower price with the issues that brings (ask yourself who maintains the DR5000 firmware? Answer - no-one hence the all the issues and problems remain and will continue to remain )

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to notice of late on various forums this preoccupation with Wi-Fi. At which point will Wi-FI become unstable. I use sonos and I have noticed of late drop outs in my railway building, back to hard wire for it. As more devices use Wi-FI do users really want to take the risk of losing control of a layout, this has been certainly been born out at exhibitions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

“In defence of WiFi”  :)

 

I have a background in the IT industry so I feel obliged to say something on this topic…

 

My original remark about lack of WiFi is addressed primarily at the connection from a Command Station to a Computer – which I think is the main purpose of the Ethernet connection on the mc2. For compute devices, WiFi is most certainly mainstream. The reason why can be understood from these graphs:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263437/global-smartphone-sales-to-end-users-since-2007/

 

The compute world is now dominated by mobile devices of one kind or another. One of their key features is being able to operate without wires attached. WiFi enables this for communications – and even users of 4G and 5G smartphones still make a lot of use of WiFi. WiFi allows good communication in places where it might be inconvenient or difficult to run cables.

 

My own house is fully wired with Cat5E cables and RJ45 wall sockets, but only 1 connection of more than a dozen uses the cabling – and that is the connection from my main router at the front of the house to a secondary WiFi access point at the rear, needed to deal with a thick WiFi-killing double skinned wall which runs across the centre of the house. All my many devices use WiFi – and they do so reliably. This includes the Pi 400 system I recently bought to help control my layout.

 

I and my colleagues run our professional lives over WiFi, including long Zoom and video calls. We expect it to work – and it does. My broadband connection to the house and my electricity supply are less reliable than my WiFi (I live in the country) and I have backups for each of those.

 

Yes, WiFi can in practice be unstable, but like any technology, that is generally because it is not being used correctly. It is possible to make it work well, even in very busy environments like conference centres and exhibition halls – but it does require the correct equipment, properly configured.

 

As for handsets – surely here is a prime case for wireless operation? Who really wants to use a handset with a cable snaking out of the end of it, just ripe to get tangled or trodden on? I certainly aim to get a wireless handset, just like I made the move from my revered static 1970s H&M Duette controller to a wired handset.

 

To deal with unreliable WiFi such as you might find at an exhibition hall, I suggest that a good approach is to take your own WiFi with the layout and not rely on someone else’s dodgy system. WiFi routers can be remarkably small and inexpensive. As an example, it is possible to implement one with the latest Raspberry Pi, so combining the WiFi router with computer capabilities for controlling the layout.

 

Mike.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I don’t see the requirement for wi-if being any more unreasonable than loconet or railcom for those that desire it. I went to a wi-fi handset some time back and couldn’t entertain using a wired one now except under force majeure. I also think a distinction needs to be drawn between wi-fi signal problems and the issue of some commercial DCC systems such as my MRC/Gaugemaster one using the same address for each base station - which cannot be changed. That is where I believe problems arise when more that one layout is in close proximity to another. But of course it took a while for the problem to come to users attention. Separate routers/individual assigned addresses should be the answer I feel, which thankfully some systems allow. 
 

It’s all a learning curve isn’t it. The Prodigy system now has a separate plug-in wi-fi unit which overcomes these problems, but can only be used with phones/tablets and not MRC’s own wi-fi handsets.... I’m now thinking of going down the pi-400+ Sprog route.

 

However, a unit such as this TAMS should surely, for it’s specification and price point, have it’s own built-in wi-fi capability. 
 

Izzy

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

...........

 

To deal with unreliable WiFi such as you might find at an exhibition hall, I suggest that a good approach is to take your own WiFi with the layout and not rely on someone else’s dodgy system. WiFi routers can be remarkably small and inexpensive. As an example, it is possible to implement one with the latest Raspberry Pi, so combining the WiFi router with computer capabilities for controlling the layout.

 

 

The problems of layout control over WiFi at exhibitions have been with people taking their own systems to the hall. 

They find its swamped with all the other systems around, be they other layout operators, other exhibitors, the hall's own public systems, and the visitors bringing in their phones (some with WiFi tethering hot spots operating).   

I've been at shows when this happens (eg. Warley); a control system which works at home and during setup, with a range of over 100 yards is reduced to either not functioning at all, or having a range of under 5 yards with serious lags in transmission time.      

I've not see a problem at smaller "village hall" sized events; not enough other systems or visitor phones to cause a problem.  

 

To make the WiFi access point and client devices brought to the show work in a noisy radio environment requires a lot of knowledge of radio issues, and knowledge of how to shield one system from another.  I'm sure its possible for a skilled radio technician, but its beyond the kit I own.  

 

 

At home WiFi should work - I to use it a lot.   

 

- Nigel

  

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I don’t see the requirement for wi-if being any more unreasonable than loconet or railcom for those that desire it.

Izzy

Loconet is not part of the DCC system specs but is a proprietry interface.

Due to the amount of third party support several manufacturers besides Digitrax (The initiators of it) include it.

Railcom is an optional part of the DCC specification.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past year I have been asked to help with 3 different layouts who were having issues with automation not running properly with trains going ‘rogue’ and tun]routs not always operating correctly and naturally in all cases it was the automation program, iTrain, that was causing the issue despite me having checked the plans and said that iTrain was operating correctly.

 

when visiting them I found that all of them were using WiFi to connect their laptops running iTrain to their layouts and simply changing from WiFi to wire cured the issue on all the layouts instantly.

 

I mentioned earlier that the WiFi protocols commonly used is UDP and this is the root of the problem. On a poor quality network, or a busy network UDP is often lost and consequently a turnout might not change, a loco might not receive the command to stop, or and emergency stop may not be received.

 

WiFi is good, but it has its place and understanding the benefits and limitations will enable the proper use of it, knowing where it can be used safely and when it shouldn’t be used - and most importantly it will enable recognition of faults quickly with the network transport layer rather than blaming the software, command station or decoder.

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

In the past year I have been asked to help with 3 different layouts who were having issues with automation not running properly with trains going ‘rogue’ and tun]routs not always operating correctly and naturally in all cases it was the automation program, iTrain, that was causing the issue despite me having checked the plans and said that iTrain was operating correctly.

 

when visiting them I found that all of them were using WiFi to connect their laptops running iTrain to their layouts and simply changing from WiFi to wire cured the issue on all the layouts instantly.

 

I mentioned earlier that the WiFi protocols commonly used is UDP and this is the root of the problem. On a poor quality network, or a busy network UDP is often lost and consequently a turnout might not change, a loco might not receive the command to stop, or and emergency stop may not be received.

 

WiFi is good, but it has its place and understanding the benefits and limitations will enable the proper use of it, knowing where it can be used safely and when it shouldn’t be used - and most importantly it will enable recognition of faults quickly with the network transport layer rather than blaming the software, command station or decoder.

in industry no-one is running any significant manufacturing or processes with Wifi as a main means of control, so far as I know. The opportunity to replace cabling in principle is massive. Still, everyone plugs in to do updates or troubleshooting. Use of wifi is restricted to receiving software updates for loading into the PLC's 

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

in industry no-one is running any significant manufacturing or processes with Wifi as a main means of control, so far as I know. 

 

Industry most certainly is using WiFi, or at least moving in that direction. There are even protocols for real-time WiFi, which is required for anything but the most trivial industrial control. It's what is layered on top of "WiFI" that matters.

 

Given the issues in getting true real time Ethernet I thought it was madness :) but I left that job so I don't really know the current state of play.

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

in industry no-one is running any significant manufacturing or processes with Wifi as a main means of control, so far as I know. The opportunity to replace cabling in principle is massive. Still, everyone plugs in to do updates or troubleshooting. Use of wifi is restricted to receiving software updates for loading into the PLC's 

SCADA over WiFi has been in use for many years and is a mature technology  - however the SCADA data is carried using TCP not UDP therefore reliable  and suitable for real-time , or rather vet near real-time systems.

 

The fact that SCADA can be carried over WiFi doesn’t mean that cable isn’t used in preference. Cable is cheaper and generally much cheaper to maintain than WiFi and WiFi is generally only used when cable cannot be used.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately I did say As far as I know. And as I have retired no update is pending. I worked (using the term loosely) in papermaking and paper conversion where you have large machinery driven by very large motors. Lots of steelwork. The requirement for reliability, especially in papermaking, is as high as in aerospace, although for different reasons, so everything tends to be belt and braces in that way, though not in machine design, if that makes sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...