NIR 450 class

[Robert Shrives]

Hi , Worsely works etches that had been part built for ages dug out and with a clean got a dusting of TLC, Primer and Halford`s Ford Ivory, lots to below the floor  but it seemed a good idea to stop the tarnish taking over . Bogies will be Bachmann B4s and power a black beatle with Southern pride MK6 side frames but that is in the future.    

 

Historically the 450 is quite involved - reusing previous gen power plants married to MK3 style -455 bodies but given traction forces and weight of power plant the bodies were fixed upon older MK1 underframes.  For its day a cost effective recylcing of equipment when needs must.

 

A future chapter for a second build will use Bratchell parts and Southern pride trusses and another BB bogie- but most of this is safely flat packed.   

[kirley]

Looking forward to seeing this project progress.  Have you decided on a livery yet?

[Robert Shrives]

7 hours ago, kirley said:

Looking forward to seeing this project progress.  Have you decided on a livery yet?

Kirley,

I want to do this in the as delivered livery which I think suited it well- Livery elements picked up on 150001 with the angled upsweep on the cab ends  I am thinking the tan stripe was as good as CIE tan and the maroon window stripe I can do with a Ford Burgundy red - I will do a trial on another body. -If you have suggestions these more than welcome. Big question is the warning panel patches do you have any spec info. Looks more orange then yellow it carried  in the Tranlink livery- which will before the Bratchell version- which looks like a polar white and reg rail / Revel 52 blue.

But time will tell.

Robert    

[jhb171achil]

The orange line WAS pretty much like CIE's orange / tan; I noticed this with a brand new 450 set sitting alongside a CIE "Enterprise" set in Central one time.

 

The patches on the front were not yellow as you say. They were the original same type of day-glo orange as the "V" on the front of the Hunslets and the patch on the front of the 111s in earlier blue livery.

 

The yellow came much later.

[kirley]

You picked the fun livery to do.  The good news if you don't already know is Railtec do the decals for them. https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4245

When the Castle Class was first launched it had these orange coloured warning panels, sorry I can't help further but a email to NIR might get you an answer.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by kirley
correction

[kirley]

33lima did a lot of UTA, NIR conversions a while back and painted them using spray cans.  Perhaps a PM to him may get you an answer on the shade of the orange warning panels.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi 

I do have a contact in NIR but much of the railcar era material seems to have gone to the black hole that is PRONI- Public records office Northern Ireland.  Due Covid 19 it is closed and anyway you have to book in advance and book documents to see  off the on line listings but these are years and thousands of docs behind by their own admission - a total failure really.  The Docs draws are empty at York road, still labelled up for 70/80 and 450 class , I did a few years ago get some drawings - GAs with only partial info on the gen brakes but vital sizes of apertures not given.

Yes has spotted Railtec had done transfers - I have bought one or more of all the modern sheets and will get some UTA for the maroon/blue Enterprise and 70 sets in hand or in the gloat pile. 

What I have not got is a good power car roof down shot of the engine fan area . But I think a class 73 roof fan most likely given parentage of the power gear.

Thanks for info on stripe JHB good to know hen eyes have been on the subject . The maroon  stripe not unlike a Ford Burgundy I got last week and with the ford Ivory does not look to bad - Great photos on the press release - brave times with "new stock" - Fun that UTA had sliding door stock with the MED railcars back in the early 1950s!

Robert      

[Darius43]

Hi Robert,

 

There are some overhead shots of the roof engine fan area on this video.

 

Hopefully these may be of use.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[kirley]

I have the 1986 outline drawing if they are any use to you, roof shots are hard to find.

[jhb171achil]

1 hour ago, Robert Shrives said:

Hi 

I do have a contact in NIR but much of the railcar era material seems to have gone to the black hole that is PRONI- Public records office Northern Ireland.  Due Covid 19 it is closed and anyway you have to book in advance and book documents to see  off the on line listings but these are years and thousands of docs behind by their own admission - a total failure really.  The Docs draws are empty at York road, still labelled up for 70/80 and 450 class , I did a few years ago get some drawings - GAs with only partial info on the gen brakes but vital sizes of apertures not given.

Yes has spotted Railtec had done transfers - I have bought one or more of all the modern sheets and will get some UTA for the maroon/blue Enterprise and 70 sets in hand or in the gloat pile. 

What I have not got is a good power car roof down shot of the engine fan area . But I think a class 73 roof fan most likely given parentage of the power gear.

Thanks for info on stripe JHB good to know hen eyes have been on the subject . The maroon  stripe not unlike a Ford Burgundy I got last week and with the ford Ivory does not look to bad - Great photos on the press release - brave times with "new stock" - Fun that UTA had sliding door stock with the MED railcars back in the early 1950s!

Robert      

 

Regarding the "ivory" - there's a difference here to be noted.

 

NIR's maroon & light grey livery from 1968 onwards had a light grey, rather than cream. Later, when they had the liveries with blue round the windows (both the "wasp stripe" and "translink" versions), the lighter colour was also pale grey.

The above original "Castle Class"* livery, plus the short-lived "Suburban" livery had a cream colour rather than a light grey. Very different.

 

(*  These things were always called "Castle Class" at first - never "450" class - you'll see it on the brochure above! NIR wanted to highlight the names of local landmarks, and all but a small few of the 80s had no names).

[Robert Shrives]

JHB, 

Thanks, yes the translink light grey is more towards the Reg rail "silvergrey" rather than the Intercity beige colours - I have a tin of centro grey which I think I will try. I have done the Gatwick DBSO in Audi Ibis White. I visited the Stoke facility where it was converted by my pics are ruined by the sodium yellow lighting and colours were not given when I asked as the tour leader - site manager had no idea on the coach contract being the wagons man for EWS contracts.  The gen brake 8911 is in the MIR blue ( as is the DBSO) but with a intercity beige colour - not much in it.  The two tins I have of MIR  NIR grey are both unopened! - I will have to investigate. With 4 coaches to go in between time to try and redo any thing that offends the eye.  

I asked on the NIR "thumpers" FB page about the orange stripe but nothing back yet. 

Robert

8911

8918

Which where I was last night, 8911 now has darkgrey roof , down to making edges for yellow panel and black steps buffers .       

[Johann Marsbar]

Here is another roof view that might be of use.....

 

 

The slide scanner I have seems to have an aversion to Fuji and Jessops slides for some reason (though I can't remember which brand of the two this was taken on).  The earlier Kodak ones come out perfectly  alright!

 

[jhb171achil]

8 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Here is another roof view that might be of use.....

 

 

The slide scanner I have seems to have an aversion to Fuji and Jessops slides for some reason (though I can't remember which brand of the two this was taken on).  The earlier Kodak ones come out perfectly  alright!

 

That's my favourite livery on anything NIR.

 

Wonder how a 70 class would have looked, clad thus! One for a photoshop expert!

[Robert Shrives]

I have  70 yet to build so could do a coach in bumble bee easily enough.  Certainly it was a smart livery. 

 

[colmflanagan]

One snippet about the "Castle" class - in view of the fulsome references to passenger safety and comfort from the advanced heating system. Alas, the latter was the bane of a friend's existence, he travelled regularly from Glynn to work in Belfast. He described thee trains as "the mobile fridges", as the heating was very poor. It seems as though there wasn't enough juice to really warm it up, possibly because it was designed for all electric vehicles, which shared the same bodywork.  Eventually a solution was found.

 

[jhb171achil]

2 hours ago, colmflanagan said:

One snippet about the "Castle" class - in view of the fulsome references to passenger safety and comfort from the advanced heating system. Alas, the latter was the bane of a friend's existence, he travelled regularly from Glynn to work in Belfast. He described thee trains as "the mobile fridges", as the heating was very poor. It seems as though there wasn't enough juice to really warm it up, possibly because it was designed for all electric vehicles, which shared the same bodywork.  Eventually a solution was found.

 

As one condemned to regular commutes in these awful things for some years, I agree - freezing in winter, though for some reason stuffy in summer. You couldn't open the windows more than an ineffectively tiny slit.

 

Seats designed for N-gauge-sized deformed leprechauns. Seat back was too low also.

 

No window ledge to rest your elbow on, like the 70 class, and windows too high for decent visibility.

 

Visibility in some seats obscured by wall.

 

Overall feeling and atmosphere of cheap, cheap, cheap and plastic. They gave the impression of being designed by a committee out of a "Dilbert" cartoon!

 

Travelling in the power cars - like the 80 class - noisy and vibrating, like being flung around in a sealed-up tin can full of marbles in an echo chamber......

 

As a model, an essential and intéresting 1980s - 2000s ingredient for any Northern Irish layout. To travel in - only equalled by the old MED railcars in their ghastliness and discomfort! 

 

Commuters will never mourn them. By contrast, the CAFs are excellent to travel in!

Edited December 11, 2020 by jhb171achil

[Irish Padre]

Probably have them to thank for whatever educational success I had. When I started my school commute the Larne line was largely semaphore signalled with 70 class traction and much original infrastructure remained. By O-level time it was a glorified tramway run by these horrors. So much less of a distraction from the studying I was meant to be at...

 

And, with the sobriety of hindsight, I I know these monstrosities probably saved the NIR system from destruction. But I could never quite forgive them for banishing the 70s, whose beating EE hearts they swallowed into their bland BREL maws...

 

They are shaping into nice models, Robert, though ! 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Irish Padre

[Hunslet 102]

Only superseded by what CIE done to the comfortable AECs when turning them into the push/pulls!

Both looked the part from the outside but were ghastly and not commuter friendly on the inside.

Looks like this model is shaping up to look the part on the outside, no need to worry about the comfort on the inside!

[jhb171achil]

10 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Only superseded by what CIE done to the comfortable AECs when turning them into the push/pulls!

Both looked the part from the outside but were ghastly and not commuter friendly on the inside.

Looks like this model is shaping up to look the part on the outside, no need to worry about the comfort on the inside!

Correct - those things were beyond GHASTLY inside!

[kirley]

On 09/12/2020 at 21:07, Robert Shrives said:

I have  70 yet to build so could do a coach in bumble bee easily enough.  Certainly it was a smart livery. 

 

I believe the 70 Class had only 3 liveries, Maroon/blue, Maroon/light grey and the Sealink one.

[Robert Shrives]

Kirley, 

yes indeed but a bumble bee-ed one would have been interesting and easy enough to do oneside to confuse  or amuse perhaps. 

Robert 

[kirley]

On your railway its your rules!

[jhb171achil]

12 hours ago, kirley said:

I believe the 70 Class had only 3 liveries, Maroon/blue, Maroon/light grey and the Sealink one.

 

Yes and no - if (as I guess?) you mean they DIDN'T have "bumble-bee", you're right - my remark was more based on wondering what they'd have looked like - pretty good, I would think.... however, the 70 class had 4 types of livery.

 

1.  On delivery, still in UTA days, a slightly lighter red, and no NIR markings, but a "Northern Ireland" device on the front.

 

2.  Then, the maroon & ivory grey NIR livery.

 

3.  Maroon & blue.

 

4.  Sealink - but not all of 'em, obviously.

[Robert Shrives]

On the 70 front, hijacking my own thread !  Allen has kindly done a revision to the front end windows  I had thought that the first go they were everso slightly large.  Also of ebay I got some 31x hopper window etches to see if I can create a couple of repaired windows - The sealink and  couple others got replaced and further replaced- nodoubt after a brickend sourced mod so vehicles got randoms changes - several early pics of the Sealink set shows all new windows but fairly quickly a motor car got an old one back. A pic at Lisburn shows the otherway round with  Maroon/blue coach with one hopper fitted.  Research is the key if JHB is not going to twist my tail !!!!

Back to  Castle class I have asked Steve at Railtec about doing an orange white duo transfer but was going to have a play with an old MIR ammonia tank stripe and some white stripe from Steve and see how it looks/ I feel.. 

[jhb171achil]

A fine beast to travel in, a 70 class; though some of their trailer cars were a bit bouncy. The power cars were as noisy and rattly as an 80, though, and muggy stale cigarette smoke didn't improve them..... in latter days, the smoking section in both 80  and 70 class trains was the power car.