Railways and Preservation - Swanage An Environmental Disaster?

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Southport - whose coat of arms is a wheelchair and an incontinence bag !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Joke courtesy of Jasper Carrot - opening line of his live performance at the Southport Floral Hall many moons ago - to which only us Wiganers laughed !!

 

Brit15

 

Ah. Not from Southport though. 

 

That's alluding to the railway centre which I was a volunteer at for many years.

 

When I signed up most of the user names I thought of were already in use so I had to find one that wasn't. That was about the thirtieth try believe it or not!

 

I have a feeling that many of those user names are either hardly used or people that have moved on. Not seen many of them pop up.

 

 

Jason

[009 micro modeller]

On 06/12/2020 at 12:18, Crisis Rail said:

Generally speaking, the disadvantages of rail travel are legion, including a huge financial outlay, jam packed with people you have never met, it’s eye wateringly expensive and lastly, and most significantly, trains are hugely destructive on the environment. For this reason, you would have thought that to resurrect an outmoded form of railway transport would not be a sensible exercise. Added to the above, in these days of social distancing, rail travel is simply not realistic or possible,

 

Having read this bit again, I’m still slightly unclear on what alternatives he would suggest for those who still need to commute, or travel over long distances for other reasons, or will need/want to again in future when current restrictions are lifted. Over long distances cycling isn’t really an option, buses and road coaches have most of the “disadvantages” he attributes to rail, plus a few others, and private cars are even worse for the environment. If he was making the distinction between a steam railway for tourists and a modern commuter line he might have a point (not one I’d particularly agree with - the contribution to heritage preservation and the economy by preserved lines often seems to be much greater than their negative environmental impact), but he doesn’t make that distinction at this point in the letter. In general the mainstream environmentalist movement supports rail reopenings and expansion of public transport as a way to reduce the number of polluting car journeys, so I’m not really sure what point the letter-writer is trying to make. The “environmental” argument almost seems to have been (somewhat cynically and not very skilfully) added in just to justify a rant.

Edited December 8, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[caradoc]

22 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The normal form for leisure cyclists on disused railways is to turn up in a 4x4 with the cycles on the back/roof, cycle a couple of miles to the next car park with a coffee shop, sit there for an hour, and then cycle the couple of miles back to the car.

 

Not always ! I'm fortunate enough to have two ex-railway cycle routes near me (Paisley/Glengarnock and Paisley/Port Glasgow), and an ex-railway/current canal cycle route (Dumbarton/Glasgow), and I have never driven to or from any; If I cannot cycle there and back I use the train ! And like Nearholmer, I just like cycling on, preferably, quiet back roads or dedicated paths, for pleasure and health, and I do my best not to impede others, especially people at work (eg farmers) as I am just out to enjoy myself. I do agree that some cyclists are selfish and irresponsible, but so are pedestrians and motorists; There are cycle paths I hesitate to use because they are invariably occupied by people who think it a good idea to walk on one side with their dog(s) somewhere on the other side and the lead stretched across the entire path.

 

Anyway, this guy's idea is mad, and it will be interesting to see the response from locals. And how on earth does he think railways are 'hugely destructive of the environment' ? Bizarre is not the word !

 

[Northmoor]

On 06/12/2020 at 12:18, Crisis Rail said:

a few steam train diehards and train spotting nerds who have nothing better to do with their lives.

Harmans Cross station is an exceptional piece of railway history, maintained by some very enthusiastic volunteers

He's not even consistent in whether he dislikes railway enthusiasts or not!

 

Don't assume the local paper in printing this, agrees with a word of it.  Sometimes editors see a letter like this as a space filler that might generate further stories and even, give a safe outlet for lunatics to rant often about weird and wonderful conspiracy theories.  The Hartlepool Mail used to frequently print letters from someone who would rant about things like coffee being an American imperialist introduction to Britain and that therefore all Britons should drink tea. They gave their address as "The People's Republic of Hartlepool".

[Crisis Rail]

Can I just add that the above OP quotations mentioned are definitely not my viewpoints!!!

 

Just a reminder like. 

[jessy1692]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

He's not even consistent in whether he dislikes railway enthusiasts or not!

 

Don't assume the local paper in printing this, agrees with a word of it.  Sometimes editors see a letter like this as a space filler that might generate further stories and even, give a safe outlet for lunatics to rant often about weird and wonderful conspiracy theories.  The Hartlepool Mail used to frequently print letters from someone who would rant about things like coffee being an American imperialist introduction to Britain and that therefore all Britons should drink tea. They gave their address as "The People's Republic of Hartlepool".

We get a few crank letters in the Harrogate advertiser, one a few months back did the rounds on social media of a bloke writing in after doing a one man survey of how people are dressed in this day and age:

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/letter-time-smarten-our-town-2991188

 

Previous to that there was another letter some years ago from someone claiming to be from the posh end if town complaining about aeroplanes flying over his house and he thought the single engined ones were a danger to all and sundry. Mostly its usually just people moaning about traffic or the state of the stray.

 

Its all about clicks now most local news is online so the more sensational/overhyped the story is the more chance they will run a story, perfect for the local loons and over opinionated!

Edited December 8, 2020 by jessy1692

[Crisis Rail]

The Gazette I read and quoted is on online PDF format freely searchable that also  comes out as a booklet format available in local  retail outlets around Purbeck. January’s edition might make interesting reading. 

 

[brianusa]

Cyclists and train nuts will never see eye to eye!  As one of the latter, I would agree with most characterisations of cyclists, especially those asserting their right not to stop at an intersection, to pass on the inside or stop suddenly just in front of my cars bumper.  When I was a kid with my turned up trousers and cycle clips; no lycra or helmets in those days, I was a cyclist also, but we had more respect for our own lives as well as other road users.  Sad, but this is why cyclists, good or bad are universally unpopular.  There have always been cyclists but recently the divide has worsened, perhaps because of the militant stance of the cycling fraternity.

      Brian.  

[009 micro modeller]

5 hours ago, Northmoor said:

The Hartlepool Mail used to frequently print letters from someone who would rant about things like coffee being an American imperialist introduction to Britain and that therefore all Britons should drink tea.

 

Because of course neither Britain nor tea has EVER been associated with imperialism... 

 

(Disclaimer: I am a tea drinker who also drinks hot chocolate - don’t really like coffee.)

[009 micro modeller]

5 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

Can I just add that the above OP quotations mentioned are definitely not my viewpoints!!!

 

Just a reminder like. 

 

Yes I know - when quoting your original post I was wondering whether I should have also put inverted commas round the bits from the letter.

[009 micro modeller]

5 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

We get a few crank letters in the Harrogate advertiser, one a few months back did the rounds on social media of a bloke writing in after doing a one man survey of how people dressed in this day and age:

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/letter-time-smarten-our-town-2991188

 

 

Like all the best (worst) unscientific amateur “research,” it starts with an introduction that makes it sound like a proper academic and even scientific study, then quickly turns out to be far too reliant on one person’s incredibly subjective and slightly outdated opinion (his judgement of what constitutes smart clothing in this case) and doesn’t ever really define exactly what it’s on about.

 

Edit: now trying to decide whether this is even more hilarious and worse than the Swanage one. I’m not sure but I think it’s a close-run thing.

Edited December 8, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 hours ago, sir douglas said:

i dont see anything wrong with that one i would get annoyed at repetitive noises all night regardless of where i live

 

You wouldn't deliberately move somewhere where there was a noise and complain though would you?

 

Mike.

[Northmoor]

34 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

You wouldn't deliberately move somewhere where there was a noise and complain though would you?

I once read of a Noise Control Officer for Leicestershire Council, who said, yes, he really did deal with people who moved to Castle Donington and complained about the noise afterwards.  For those unfamiliar, the town has East Midlands Airport and Donington Park race circuit on its doorstep, plus the M1 within earshot.

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

I once read of a Noise Control Officer for Leicestershire Council, who said, yes, he really did deal with people who moved to Castle Donington and complained about the noise afterwards.  For those unfamiliar, the town has East Midlands Airport and Donington Park race circuit on its doorstep, plus the M1 within earshot.

There was also one council who started receiving large numbers of noise complaints about a motor racing circuit in their area (I forget which one) - on investigation, it turned out that not only were most of them from locations much too far away to hear anything, but also, curiously, all of the complainants were friends of the circuit owner's ex-wife...

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I once read of a Noise Control Officer for Leicestershire Council, who said, yes, he really did deal with people who moved to Castle Donington and complained about the noise afterwards.  For those unfamiliar, the town has East Midlands Airport and Donington Park race circuit on its doorstep, plus the M1 within earshot.

 

I pretty much agree but OTOH noise in general is rather a downside of life - there are probably lots of people who have never been outside somewhere without traffic noise in the background, which is sad. And to take another example, if your circumstances are such that you can only afford to rent the cheapest flat you can find I think it would still be reasonable to complain about a landlord who did nothing about the leaking roof, rather than being brushed off with "well you chose to live there." And it would certainly be nicer if the dual carriageway near me wasn't there (but far worse for the places it bypasses - we seem to be in an ever-downward spiral with things like that). But it was there before me, so whilst I'll say it would be more pleasant without it I'm certainly not going to campaign to get it closed, or demand the speed limit is reduced or anything like that.

 

It's not a black and white thing, even if I certainly fall more on the side of agreeing with you (another example - I also roll my eyes at people who complain about the length of their commute). At any rate though as the world gets an ever-noisier place we should be wary of dismissing those unhappy with it, especially as it gets harder and harder to find anywhere without it.

[caradoc]

16 hours ago, brianusa said:

Cyclists and train nuts will never see eye to eye!

 

Eh ? I happen to be a cyclist AND a train nut, and from some of the responses here so are other RMweb members. It seems to have become standard practice, whenever cyclists are mentioned in any context whatsoever, to have a go at us and class us all as law-breaking, non-tax paying, arrogant etc swine. Some of course are, but please don't lump us all together; This could be classed as cyclistism !

 

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

Eh ? I happen to be a cyclist AND a train nut, and from some of the responses here so are other RMweb members. It seems to have become standard practice, whenever cyclists are mentioned in any context whatsoever, to have a go at us and class us all as law-breaking, non-tax paying, arrogant etc swine. Some of course are, but please don't lump us all together; This could be classed as cyclistism !

 

Unfortunately some cyclist cliches do - or did - seem very grounded in reality - going through red lights being the most obvious one. Although I have to say I seem to see far less of that nowadays than I did a few years ago. It was a genuine surprise at one time if a cyclist didn't go sailing past a red light I'm afraid, but I have to say that appears to have changed so it's turning in to what you say, using a few to tar the majority, at least in my rather un-general anecdotal experience.

 

It might still be valid to say there is a problem with cyclists behaving badly if enough do, even if they are the minority, just as it is to say with any road users (because we all know that there are enough car drivers who behave badly enough to cause problems even though most do not). It can be tricky to narrow things down to the troublemakers without appearing to be lumping everyone in with them.

 

One thing that irritates me (what do you  mean one?!) is simply categorising everyone - car drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and so on as if they are somehow mutually exclusive groups.

[Steamport Southport]

There's a special place in Hell for Uber, Just Eat, Deliveroo, Dominos, etc. cyclists.....

[Dagworth]

12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

There's a special place in Hell for Uber, Just Eat, Deliveroo, Dominos, etc. cyclists.....

Probably in the room next door to the railway preservationists 

 

Andi

[009 micro modeller]

44 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

There's a special place in Hell for Uber, Just Eat, Deliveroo, Dominos, etc. cyclists.....

 

Although they are at least taking up less space than a car doing the same job.

[bike2steam]

He is a sad loser who has got a 'downer' on the world. A recent 'incomer' from the smoke, he is just a disillusioned lovey/artist who should be ignored for writing a load of b*******.

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, bike2steam said:

He is a sad loser who has got a 'downer' on the world. A recent 'incomer' from the smoke, he is just a disillusioned lovey/artist who should be ignored for writing a load of b*******.

 

I often think it's a bit weird that there's anyone who doesn't have a downer on the world. Agree with the rest of what you say though

[pheaton]

Pollution control is by far the biggest issue that is the threat to preserved lines....the threat to steam is the government ban on house coal burning....whilst its likely heritage operations will be exempt from this, the issue they are facing is it will decimate what's left of the domestic coal industry because according to a study done by the HRA it will not be viable to run a coal mine just to supply the preserved lines of the UK, meaning that preservation will have to rely further on imports....which again may not be viable to ship....and even then they are reliant on the less than perfect coal especially for steam loco's of the copper capped variety.

 

ironically though what the letter on the original post fails to realise...is that the swanage railway, serves quite heavily as a park and ride....so if the line closed....how grid-locked would swanage actually be? In addition with the investment in the wareham scheme by the local authority...I fail to see that this will actually gain any traction whatsoever....

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by pheaton

[009 micro modeller]

29 minutes ago, pheaton said:

I fail to see that this will actually gain any traction whatsoever....

 

I don’t think anyone was suggesting even for a moment that the letter-writer’s ideas would be taken seriously by anyone...

[pheaton]

Ahh but that's how these things start  for example...my line the GWR had an issue at a crossing....which a local complained wasn't as wheelchair friendly as it could be....which started as a letter in the local rag and whipped up a massive storm....in the end the railway reminded them it wasn't a public right of way...and basically said if they think the crossing needs that much investment then they will simply remove it......quite quickly the issue died down....