Railways and Preservation - Swanage An Environmental Disaster?

[Northmoor]

56 minutes ago, Chris M said:

No criteria and certainly  no insult to the Swanage railway was intended. Based on passenger numbers it could well be in the premier league. It’s just that there are a few heritage lines which tend be more well known such as the North York Moors or the Great Central. 

The "League Table" of preserved/heritage railways is a whole new can of worms and all of us would rank them differently.  I suspect to many enthusiasts, it has a lot more to do with how many ex-BR locos are run in normal service, while actual passenger numbers is a smaller consideration.  This is fortunate, because some seaside pleasure railways - not all of which operate steam all year - have passenger numbers which dwarf all but the very busiest of preserved lines.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Northmoor

[bike2steam]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What are the criteria for being in the premier league of heritage lines? It's certainly the best for many miles around - its closest rivals are probably the Mid Hants and West Somerset. If one is on a family holiday in the area, a steam railway is an essential for the inevitable rainy day.

I like it but given the Purbecks has one of the lowest rainfall counts in the country rainy days aren't that often. That's probably why the original complainer moved there with his push-bike!!!????

[Paddy]

As Catherine Tate’s Gran would say... “What a load of old s***”!

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

[petethemole]

4 hours ago, Paddy said:

As Catherine Tate’s Gran would say... “What a load of old s***”!

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

Followed by something like this, "yer moved here 'cos it was nice, din'cha?  Naa yer 'ere yer don't like it!  F***in' liberty!"

[Robin Brasher]

You will be pleased to read that the January Purbeck Gazette has come out and there are three replies to Robin Beuscher's letter. Nico, the editor did not publish mine.  They cover many of the points raised here.  Rebecca Mace says that Mr Beuscher will be paying for another cycle track that no-one uses. J. P. Searl points out that Nitrogen is 78% of the air we breath. David Collins gave a detailed response stating that the Swanage Railway contributes about £15 million to the local economy and most of the 200,000 passengers the railway usually carries are not train spotting nerds.  The readers have come up with three different ways of spelling Robin Beuscher's name.  Please see www.purbeckgazette.com click on the front cover of January 2021 and scroll down to Reader's Letters on page 4. The paper copy is out but it may take a couple of days for the online version to appear.

[RJS1977]

On 18/12/2020 at 15:28, Northmoor said:

The answer to that is No.  I agree it is an appalling incident but in some cases, what pedestrians don't seem to notice is that they are walking on a shared path. 

 

Sorry, that couldn't be more wrong. The Highway code is very clear "NEVER cycle on the pavement."

 

If you must use the pavement, you should dismount.

[009 micro modeller]

Just now, RJS1977 said:

 

Sorry, that couldn't be more wrong. The Highway code is very clear "NEVER cycle on the pavement."

 

If you must use the pavement, you should dismount.

 

Except in cases where it actually is specifically designated as a shared use path (although this is why I prefer the ones with a line down the middle, both as a cyclist and as a pedestrian).

 

28 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

Nico, the editor did not publish mine.

 

Do you think there’s any particular reason for this or is it more to do with lack of space/points already covered in other letters?

 

I will have a quick read.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Sorry, that couldn't be more wrong. The Highway code is very clear "NEVER cycle on the pavement."

 

If you must use the pavement, you should dismount.

I nearly failed my California driving test on this point.

 

When I relocated out there, I had my UK licence 10 years plus, but a driving licence is far more useful than just driving.. its proof of your identity, so you must have one.

 

Reading the requirements it says you must not drive alone to your test as you have not passed. After the driving test you need a written test. In between this I relocated 60 miles from Sacramento to San Francisco, but as its streets were far more forgiving, I booked my test back in Sacramento.

 

So, I hired a rental car, drove up the valley to my test centre booked in. The inspector came out looked at the rental car, asked to see my papers, asked how I got the car here.. I responded showing him I drove, to which he was about to read the riot act, when I showed him my UK licence. We drove out, did three turns, and he said ok that will do.. 5 mins job done i’d passed the practical.

 

Onto the multiple choice exam.. 10 questions, 10 mins, 100% to pass.

I went through, 5 mins and done. He asked me was I sure, as I should use my time.

A minute later he responds on question 9..

 

”Would you drive the car on a pavement”.

I said “no, never”.

He said “why”.. I said “you could run someone over”.

 

He smiled, pointed to the road outside and said “what do you call that”.. I responded “A Road” a bit confused.

”And next to it”, I replied “a pavement”.. he said “thats a side walk”.. to which I replied “whats a side walk ?”.. he smiled, replied “the thing next to the pavement”.

 

He passed me, wrote “crazy brit” on the answers.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by adb968008

[Michael Hodgson]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

He smiled, pointed to the road outside and said “what do you call that”.. I responded “A Road” a bit confused.

”And next to it”, I replied “a pavement”..

 

 

No it's no.  It's a carriageway.

 

The Americans don't understand that because the don't have carriages.  They think a coach is something that is drawn by several horses, has wheels that regularly fall off and needs a bloke riding on top with a shotgun shooting at what they now call Native Americans.

[Compound2632]

I rather like the North American for the central reservation on a dual carriageway - "median strip".

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

No it's no.  It's a carriageway.

 

The Americans don't understand that because the don't have carriages.  They think a coach is something that is drawn by several horses, has wheels that regularly fall off and needs a bloke riding on top with a shotgun shooting at what they now call Native Americans.

Dont get me started.

 

I was out one night and asked for a torch...

he looked at me as if I were Dick Turpin..

he said “you really still use them ?”

 

I said sure.. he passed me his flashlight and said maybe I should start a business importing them to the UK.

 

;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by adb968008

[chris p bacon]

42 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Dont get me started.

 

A few years ago I was on a cruise ship with an American couple sitting next to me, the wife went to get something and the chap went outside on deck for a cigarette. when she returned she asked where he was and I replied "Out on deck with a fag".....I thought she was going to faint until a US friend explained what a fag was in the UK......although having an innocent meaning we thought it best not to explain what 'bumming a fag' meant...

 

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I rather like the North American for the central reservation on a dual carriageway - "median strip".

They're probably still aggrieved at having to live on a reservation

[pete_mcfarlane]

5 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

A few years ago I was on a cruise ship with an American couple sitting next to me, the wife went to get something and the chap went outside on deck for a cigarette. when she returned she asked where he was and I replied "Out on deck with a fag".....I thought she was going to faint until a US friend explained what a fag was in the UK......although having an innocent meaning we thought it best not to explain what 'bumming a fag' meant...

 

 

There's a possibly apocryphal story of a British politician in the 50s or 60s telling a US TV journalist that he'd known a cabinet colleague for years - "he was my fag at Eton". 

[Michael Hodgson]

32 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

 

There's a possibly apocryphal story of a British politician in the 50s or 60s telling a US TV journalist that he'd known a cabinet colleague for years - "he was my fag at Eton". 

That observation was made by Nicholas Ridley, speaking of Tam Dalyell  -  not a cabinet collague, but from the other side of the house.  His next remark was "I should have beaten him more".

 

Gordon Brown said that when Nick Ridley was a Minister his idea of the perfect office was an empty in-try, an empty out-tray and a full ashtray.

[Northmoor]

Ah yes, (Sir) Nicholas Ridley. 

Hard to believe that so recently we had a cabinet containing some of our elected representatives, who would actually state that they didn't like the general public.

[Ken.W]

On 06/12/2020 at 17:55, Steamport Southport said:

I expect it's real.

 

Seems to be a local nutjob and crap "artist".

 

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/15667190.sculpture-made-of-plastic-collected-from-rubbish-at-dorset-beauty-spots/

 

 

 

Art???

I'd have another name for that....

 

Fly tipping!

[papagolfjuliet]

On 30/12/2020 at 22:09, pete_mcfarlane said:

 

There's a possibly apocryphal story of a British politician in the 50s or 60s telling a US TV journalist that he'd known a cabinet colleague for years - "he was my fag at Eton". 

 

It wasn't a politician but Humphrey Lyttelton, on American radio, talking about Lord Carrington.

[Zomboid]

16 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Art???

I'd have another name for that....

 

Fly tipping!

To be fair to him, he was collecting rubbish from places to create his sculpture, which is no bad thing.

 

It's not something that I'd want in my garden, but art is subjective.

[phil-b259]

On 29/12/2020 at 12:04, Compound2632 said:

 

What are the criteria for being in the premier league of heritage lines?

 

Its is one of those terms which everyone has their own definition of.

 

However generally speaking its a line which has a few resident of ex British Railways / big 4 / pre grouping steam locos (i.e. not industrials or imports), has a decent length line between more than two proper stations (not just halts), whose line is mostly fully signalled from signal boxes and that is able to undertake significant restoration tasks in house via their own engineering facility.

 

Naturally enough the longer the railway has been established then the more likely it is that all the above have had the chance to happen, which is why most people will cite Heritage railways that got going in the 1960s or 1970s as being in the "Premier league"

 

 

[Northmoor]

56 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Its is one of those terms which everyone has their own definition of.

 

However generally speaking its a line which has a few resident of ex British Railways / big 4 / pre grouping steam locos (i.e. not industrials or imports), has a decent length line between more than two proper stations (not just halts), whose line is mostly fully signalled from signal boxes and that is able to undertake significant restoration tasks in house via their own engineering facility.

 

Naturally enough the longer the railway has been established then the more likely it is that all the above have had the chance to happen, which is why most people will cite Heritage railways that got going in the 1960s or 1970s as being in the "Premier league"

 

 

Your first and last paragraphs I concur with, the second excludes any number of very successful lines.

 

Narrow gauge is basically excluded, but the passenger numbers of the Festiniog or Welsh Highland would dwarf most standard gauge lines.  The Talyllyn and Welshpool & Llanfair were both part of the GWR/BR, but the've had to greatly supplement their fleets with industrials and imports, to operate a 20th/21st Century service.

 

I can sympathise with the idea that a former two track main line with a small Barclay push-pulling two coaches isn't a premier league operation.  However, is the Foxfield Railway, which was only ever an industrial railway, a lesser scheme because it doesn't operate ex-BR locos?  Arguably it is recreating its original form better than many ex-BR lines.  Again, what is a "decent length" line?  The KWVR is only 5.5 miles, but is probably our most "complete" preserved railway of all.

 

I suppose this is why your first statement is unarguable (i'm certainly not saying you're wrong, just that I would apply a different personal definition) and no-one should never try to establish any sort of "official" league table.

[Zomboid]

Heritage railways, like art, are subjective. There are ones which cater to our individual taste, and those that don't.

 

What's unarguable is that there are some big outfits which are well known and very busy. Once you get beyond those hard numbers then it's just preference. For me, Swanage is in the top few because it performs a genuine public transport function, the stations have captured a pleasant atmosphere (which I don't remember from the real world since I wasn't born then, but they're nice places to wait for a train), it has nice enough scenery to make their observation car worth the supplement and enough of a hill to make engines work a bit, plus it suits my personal leaning towards the SR/ LSWR. But that's just me.

 

And then what of places like Didcot? Not much of a train ride, but an excellent collection of locos and other equipment, which is of next to no interest to me because I don't care much for the GWR...

[phil-b259]

39 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Your first and last paragraphs I concur with, the second excludes any number of very successful lines.

 

 

I was responding in the context of standard gauge only.

 

For narrow gunge the 'ex BR locos' quite obviously doesn't apply and by their very nature proper stations were something of a rarity, but you can easily draw up equivalents plus resident steam and engineering capacity are still milestones which indicate a move 'up the ranks' so to speak.

 

39 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Again, what is a "decent length" line?  The KWVR is only 5.5 miles, but is probably our most "complete" preserved railway of all.

 

 

I used the term 'decent length' for a reason.... it needs to be seen in context of the line itself.

 

5.5 miles complete with several original stations is definitely a 'decent length'. A hypothetical line running for 5.5 miles with one original station and a volunteer created halt in a field at the end of the line isn't. However turn that rough and ready halt into a permanent stop which has all the appearance of being authentic to the line (e.g. Harmans Cross on the Swanage) and the equation changes.

 

To avoid further confusion it should be noted that this is talking about Heritage railways (as in something that is zero rated for VAT as it counts as public transport).

 

A Heritage Centre such as Didcot is a very different beast - like narrow gauge lines the criteria used to score them is different again, but again size of the collection, engineering ability are common themes to all.

 

39 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

I suppose this is why your first statement is unarguable (i'm certainly not saying you're wrong, just that I would apply a different personal definition) and no-one should never try to establish any sort of "official" league table.

 

Hence why I couched it in general terms. Unlike football there are no formal divisions or points structure and as such its impossible to achieve a formal concuss.

 

A family group looking for a day out might consider a 'premier league' railway to have lovely toilet facilities, childrens play areas and cafe, the railway elements playing second fiddle. An enthusiasts might consider a 'premier league railway to need to have a large collection of steam or diesel locomotives. A loco owner might consider a 'premier league' railway to be one with extensive engineering capabilities.

 

Of course you could say that a 'premier league' railway would have all the above....

Edited January 8, 2021 by phil-b259

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

I used the term 'decent length' for a reason.... it needs to be seen in context of the line itself.

 

From experience, from the point of view of a family day out, a "decent length" can mean "not too long". The full length of the West Somerset was voted too long; the mile each way of the Lynton & Barnstaple, just right - combined, of course, with other non-railway activities during the day.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

Narrow gauge is basically excluded

 

Not just narrow gauge, but also those lines based on industrial railways and sites where BR locos would be less appropriate.