If you think your layout wiring is complicated ...

[Kylestrome]

... it's got to be simpler than this.

 

https://youtu.be/J8KkBaR-8PE

[RAF96]

Simplistic compared to...

 

[Hibelroad]

I think this is what a microprocessor would look like if you tried to make one out of post office relays. I hope no one every tells him about DCC, his life’s work will have been in vain. 

[boxbrownie]

He’d have a fit at mine.......only got two wire feed from the ECoS.........even all fifteen points are controlled from the track........if I’d seen that video before, I’d have taken up knitting instead 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

25 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Simplistic compared to...

 

But where did they dig up the 1940’s Ministry of Information narrator from? 

[WIMorrison]

And we wonder why DCC and Automation gets a bad name in the modelling community? Both videos are excellent examples of how NOT to do it

[Andymsa]

26 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

But where did they dig up the 1940’s Ministry of Information narrator from? 

just reviewed the underbase board video, my initial thought was a positive one. But I now am thinking this amount of wiring is just making things hard. I do automation and have now where the amount of stuff needed for it, has this been over thought.

[Michael Hodgson]

 

Train detection should be a piece of p*ss on a 3-rail layout.

Perhaps he could usefully have spent slightly longer on his baseboards and a little less on control gear?

[Andymsa]

An early example of my track detection board and accessory control board 

 

digitrax bdl168

cml/signatrak Dac 10 converted to 20 and a dac 20

 

all wires are colour coded and labelled 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Andymsa

[RobinofLoxley]

That really is a pretty bizarre approach to building a model railway. Im surprised he has any track at all really, why not just build a control system and as you love 20th century electrics so much, not bother with laying any track at all. In no way is it what we would think when some someone says second generation; in the modern iteration it is version 1.1 - just exapnded sideways from the original, and added an extra turnout

[RobinofLoxley]

21 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

And we wonder why DCC and Automation gets a bad name in the modelling community? Both videos are excellent examples of how NOT to do it

A bit harsh about the second one. Ignoring your spat on a previous thread, mostly what has happened there are that he has put in some levels of redundancy, for example putting microswitches on the turnout motors increased the amount of underboard wiring a lot.

[Andymsa]

52 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

A bit harsh about the second one. Ignoring your spat on a previous thread, mostly what has happened there are that he has put in some levels of redundancy, for example putting microswitches on the turnout motors increased the amount of underboard wiring a lot.

microswitches shouldn’t add much to wiring involved. The wiring itself just looks a mess, and is just storing up issues for the future. It appears to be over complicated. I learnt the hard way what seems ok in theory and testing doesn’t translate to real operations sessions with many complex train movements happing at a time. The point I think WIMorisson is trying to make that both videos give the DC army ammunition why DCC is bad. Also it has been pointed out how bad the track is by another member which was ignored. 

[boxbrownie]

Wanna be GPO engineer......

[WIMorrison]

Showing your age

Edited December 7, 2020 by WIMorrison
Auto spelling - I hate it!!!

[boxbrownie]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Showing your age

Father in Law was a GPO Chief engineer, I always remember him when rewiring a new domestic fuse box in our first house, he tested all the live wires by licking his finger and brushing the bare wire ends.......”yes, that’s live” he would say without a flinch! 

 

[Andymsa]

16 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Father in Law was a GPO Chief engineer, I always remember him when rewiring a new domestic fuse box in our first house, he tested all the live wires by licking his finger and brushing the bare wire ends.......”yes, that’s live” he would say without a flinch! 

 

no boring health and safety to get in the way 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Father in Law was a GPO Chief engineer, I always remember him when rewiring a new domestic fuse box in our first house, he tested all the live wires by licking his finger and brushing the bare wire ends.......”yes, that’s live” he would say without a flinch! 

 

 

I'm less sensitive than most to electric current but I would not do that.

[Stevebr]

My grandfather, also GPO did exactly the same

[WIMorrison]

I was taught to use the back of my hand because with AC the back of hand will spring away from the current - the issue with using the inside hand being that if the current was DC then your hand clamps onto the current as the muscles contract the hand onto he wire which isn’t good for you.

 

Only used this ‘trick’ a few times when I was much younger and probably even stupider than now

[stewartingram]

Not only use the back of the hand but:

2) If possible use only 1 hand, keep the other behind your back;

3) if you really do have to use 2 hands, never cross your arms. (as like when turning a steering wheel properly).

 

Good tips I learnt over 55 years ago as an apprentice!

 

Stewart

[Kylestrome]

9 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Good tips I learnt over 55 years ago as an apprentice!

 

I hope nobody young and impressionable is reading these last comments.

 

The best 'tip' of all is, don't mess with mains electricity.

 

David

[roythebus]

Having little or no interest in DCC, this lot has dissuaded me from ever trying it. when I built the MRC's New Annington layout we had less iring than those 2 shown in the videos. We had 7 cab controls, automatic 4 aspect colour light signals interlocked with the points, entry/exit push-button controlled hidden loops and sidings, working interlocked semaphores...

 

Admittedly we had light-sensitive switches with a couple of transistors as train detection and a couple of infra-red detectors in the loops, but it was all controlled by switches and relays. AFAIK the only electronic thing was a late addition, an AHB level crossing with working barriers.

 

I'd rather spend time wiring up and making the trains move than spend time trying to work out how to programme everything. I also hate having to spend ages programming each controller to move a train, not my idea of fun. If I want to do computer stuff, I do that here.

 

Now, where's my H&M Duette?

 

[Andymsa]

2 hours ago, roythebus said:

Having little or no interest in DCC, this lot has dissuaded me from ever trying it. when I built the MRC's New Annington layout we had less iring than those 2 shown in the videos. We had 7 cab controls, automatic 4 aspect colour light signals interlocked with the points, entry/exit push-button controlled hidden loops and sidings, working interlocked semaphores...

 

Admittedly we had light-sensitive switches with a couple of transistors as train detection and a couple of infra-red detectors in the loops, but it was all controlled by switches and relays. AFAIK the only electronic thing was a late addition, an AHB level crossing with working barriers.

 

I'd rather spend time wiring up and making the trains move than spend time trying to work out how to programme everything. I also hate having to spend ages programming each controller to move a train, not my idea of fun. If I want to do computer stuff, I do that here.

 

Now, where's my H&M Duette?

 

the two videos don’t really show case how to do either DC or DCC. But rather it shows how not to do it

[RobinofLoxley]

11 hours ago, roythebus said:

Having little or no interest in DCC, this lot has dissuaded me from ever trying it. when I built the MRC's New Annington layout we had less iring than those 2 shown in the videos. We had 7 cab controls, automatic 4 aspect colour light signals interlocked with the points, entry/exit push-button controlled hidden loops and sidings, working interlocked semaphores...

 

Admittedly we had light-sensitive switches with a couple of transistors as train detection and a couple of infra-red detectors in the loops, but it was all controlled by switches and relays. AFAIK the only electronic thing was a late addition, an AHB level crossing with working barriers.

 

I'd rather spend time wiring up and making the trains move than spend time trying to work out how to programme everything. I also hate having to spend ages programming each controller to move a train, not my idea of fun. If I want to do computer stuff, I do that here.

 

Now, where's my H&M Duette?

 

You have a free choice about how to wire and power your layouts, its a hobby. Out in the real world, no-one has hard wired anything for decades, everything is controlled by a PLC. Wire that to all the control inuts and outputs, then the progamming switches them on and off. What you will have with your layout is less flexibility. A DCC layout can still be operated manually and depending on the command centre although i have no experience, multi operator is possible.

 

Although I dont belong to a club, I can see that an automatic DCC layout style might not be the favourite in a club with a large layout where members want to put their own stock on and run it through their own controller.

 

16 hours ago, Andymsa said:

microswitches shouldn’t add much to wiring involved. The wiring itself just looks a mess, and is just storing up issues for the future. It appears to be over complicated. I learnt the hard way what seems ok in theory and testing doesn’t translate to real operations sessions with many complex train movements happing at a time. The point I think WIMorisson is trying to make that both videos give the DC army ammunition why DCC is bad. Also it has been pointed out how bad the track is by another member which was ignored. 

To be fair here in the original post the subject was the underboard wiring. I think the track was a work in progress, we could see it wasn't fixed down.

 

Trouble is, if you put up a video like that, more or less saying this is how to do wiring, it had better be good.

[Andymsa]

43 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

You have a free choice about how to wire and power your layouts, its a hobby. Out in the real world, no-one has hard wired anything for decades, everything is controlled by a PLC. Wire that to all the control inuts and outputs, then the progamming switches them on and off. What you will have with your layout is less flexibility. A DCC layout can still be operated manually and depending on the command centre although i have no experience, multi operator is possible.

 

Although I dont belong to a club, I can see that an automatic DCC layout style might not be the favourite in a club with a large layout where members want to put their own stock on and run it through their own controller.

 

To be fair here in the original post the subject was the underboard wiring. I think the track was a work in progress, we could see it wasn't fixed down.

 

Trouble is, if you put up a video like that, more or less saying this is how to do wiring, it had better be good.

I may be a bit thick here but don’t you fix your track down permanently before you do your wiring?

 

absolutely your correct in your last statement.