Manning Wardle Old Class i

[jdb82]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some information on what the brake rigging/linkages under the loco would look like on a Manning Wardle Old Class i locomotive. I have drawings for what you can see on the outside of the loco around the brake blocks, but can't seem to find anything about what's underneath the loco. Any knowledge/pictures/diagrams/photos of your own models etc would be appreciated :-)

Thanks,

John

[Moxy]

Hi John

 

RT Models offer a kit of the Manning Wardle Old 'I' class (currently unavailable).  However, they do have a PDF of the instructions on their website which contain some drawings of the brake gear, and also a list of other sources of info, particulary the Colonel Stephens Society, who apparently have a drawing.

 

I won't link directly to the PDF, but the webpage for the kit is here.

 

Hope this helps

 

[phil_sutters]

I don't know whether you have seen the thread here or if it gives you the info you need - but it is here - 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Also a previous thread about Industrial Locomotive Drawings.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[jdb82]

Moxy, this is very useful - thanks! I think I can just about figure out what I need from the diagrams :-)

 

Phil, yes I've seen that one - a very interesting read, but not quite the info I needed, but thanks anyway.

 

Jason, I've used this list before and found it very valuable. I have various MRJ's with info about the old i class, but none of them seen to give any information about what's with between or beneath the frames unfortunately. Again, great reference list though!

 

Thanks for all the replies, they are very much appreciated. If anyone has any photo material, feel free to post! 

 

 

[burgundy]

When I was looking for information on Wave, I came to the conclusion that, as a standard class, the only thing that they had in common was that they were all different. 

You might find more information at the Bluebell line if Sharpthorn is still there. 

 Bluebell Railway Locomotives - Sharpthorn (bluebell-railway.co.uk)

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Izzy]

I don't know if this will be of any help at all, or just cause confusion. This is the old i class I made about 25-30 years back. ISTR that as well as the MRJ articles by Don Townsley I had other material on which to base the loco. Not sure where it went, this was of course in pre-internet days, but I don't appear to have it now sadly. I say this because what I fitted, just a crude representation, seems to be based around the original brake method and position but 'upgraded' with all wheels worked. The only thing I can be fairly certain on is that I would not have done this unless I was sure prototype locos had also be treated in a similar manner somewhere. As has been said the variations in these locos was extensive as perhaps fits the many that were contractors locos then used for other purposes in later life.

 

Anyway, here's a few shots just in case they might help or not as the case may be!

 

The handbrake standard position followed by below.

 

 

 

 

You will have to forgive it's current state.  I got all my 7mm down from the loft in September where it has slept for the last 20 years in order to sort and sell it off. But instead I seem to have ended up making a micro plank on which to run it... and stuffed some cheap TTS decoders in to let them make a bit of a noise....again all done simply and crudely.

 

Izzy

Edited December 11, 2020 by Izzy

[jdb82]

Izzy,

Thanks for these - I'd seen your loco before, and have used it as reference for a few components of the etches - it's a work of art, and if I can produce anything half as good I shall be very pleased. The close up photos are really helpful and I should be able to design the brake rigging now. I'm toying with the idea of trying to fit inside motion too (I plan to drive mine from the rear axel), but haven't found any available that are small enough to fit yet. I might attempt to design and 3D print them and see if they are strong enough to survive. 'twill be a fun experiment if nothing else!

John

[jdb82]

Does anyone know what would be on the brass plaque above the smokebox door?

 

 

[Izzy]

The plates I am not sure about. As shown Aldwyth and a few others had them, but many didn't.  As I didn't fit one to No 2 there must have been a good reason why not, and that I can't remember now, sorry. I think Don Townsley visits RMweb, and of course he would know.

 

With regard to a motor/gearbox I fitted a Mashima 1630 vertically in the firebox driving the middle axle via a homebrew 80-1 two stage box. The axles are 1/8" with the wheels being Wednesbury cast iron ones, all being home machined using tufnol bushes for insulation. I don't know what the wheel options are these days, especially without access to a lathe, but I would think a similar sized motor driving the rear axle via a highlevel box was quite feasible. I would again of course favour using a high reduction.

 

Bob

[jdb82]

Thanks Bob, I'll see if I I can track Don down and message him. With regards to a motor/gearbox I was hoping to do something similar - the high level boxes may fit, but in order to mount the motor vertically, they didn't have anything with a really high reduction, so I might look at other options. I bet the motor is a tight squeeze in the firebox? These little locos are tiny!

[Izzy]

Yes John, the motor fits snuggly into the firebox but is an easy fit. Looking at the HL gearboxes I see driving the rear axle might be awkward, the measurements don't match. The centreline of the motor is 15mm from the rear axle, and 18mm from the middle. So a loadhauler driving the middle would work, but not much else. Probably needs a bespoke design.

 

Here's a couple of shots with the body off to show how No2 is done. The firebox space is 24mm wide x 20mm long. Forgot to measure it's depth (!) but enough to swallow the 30mm motor length. You'll have to forgive the loose gubbins of the speaker. Note the TTS decoder wrapped in visible masking tape.

 

 

 

 

 

The reason for mentioning the decoder is that with the body on it's impossible to see it, and I wonder whether fitting working inside motion would be worthwhile past the challenge of doing it and knowing it was there, seen or not. Otherwise driving on the middle axle would be easier. This is the both sides view with the body on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thought I'd just finish with a more normal shot of No2 on my silly little micro-minimal test track plank layout I have built over the last few months. Just somewhere to let it and it's fellows have a place to turn their wheels. Forgive the crude 4-wheel coach I have just made to go with them. Everthing has just been made with what was to hand at little/no cost.

 

 

 

Bob

Edited August 16, 2022 by Izzy
restore images

[jdb82]

Once again, thank you - your photos, knowledge and advice are invaluable. I hadn't realised there was so little between the frames that was visible. Sometimes just looking at a drawing makes it difficult to picture until it springs to life as a 3D model. I might well persist with the inside motion, as if I can design one to fit in this space, it opens up a world of possibilities for other small locos. The gearbox is going to be an interesting test. Can't say I've ever even thought of building my own..... will give it some thought, but I'll get the etch artwork sorted first I think, and probably the castings too. Part of the rationale behind this project is for me to try making all the various parts myself, from the etches, to the castings, to the wheels - I don't really want to buy anything off the shelf. Not because it's any cheaper.....I just like the challenge of learning new skills. Some might say a glutton for punishment 

[jdb82]

Does anyone happen to have a works drawing for the Manning Wardle iClass (or K Class as they are so similar)? Specifically, I'm trying to design inside motion, however the frames are so tiny that I'm struggling to figure out how it should all be squeezed in. I have CAD modelled a few bits of the motion to scale, based on the Laurie Griffin Stephenson's motion parts for reference. I knew they would be too big, however they are so oversized for this particular prototype that even if I shrink them, I still can't quite see how the slide bars would fit into the space without fouling the front axel.

 

My understanding is that the Manning Wardle drawings are kept at Statfold Barn, however I can't seem to get a response from them.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated. 

John

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by jdb82

[Izzy]

Going back to the brake rigging I thought I should just say that what I fitted to No. 2 was based on that which was used on the Selsey tramway Sidlesham Class I. I found the info in respect to another (!) class I I am playing around with making at the moment. There are drawings available from the Colonel Stephens Society showing the arrangement. Other MW's as well of course, a mine of information.

[jdb82]

Hi Bob, 

I'm going for the older wooden brake blocks - they only had 4 of these; no brakes on the middle driving wheels. I think I have the info I need at the moment. I have the Colonel Stephens drawings pinned to my wall. Could look at them all day :-) Currently, I'm fiddling with the inside motion 3D modelling to try and get the correct size, and for it all to work. Nearly there now. Originally, I'd assumed the expansion link was rear of the motion plate, but having seen a drawing from another user on Western Thunder, I've realised it's actually forwards of it, so I've adjusted the CAD model. Hope to print the parts on Friday, with a view to then doing a mockup with scrap brass frames, and then getting them cast.

John

[Timber]

I am starting to build an S Scale model of a Old I Class MW and found this article very inspirational.

 

Super model engineering.

[jdb82]

My questions keep (slowly) trickling in for the i-Class. Does anybody have any information or photos which sheds light on what kind of firebox doors they'd have had? Round, square sliding, hinged etc. 

 

Just by way of a disclaimer her, it should be noted that I keep emailing Statfold Barn who I believe hold the Manning Wardle drawings now, but so far I've had no response. 

Ta very muchly :-)

[Timber]

hello

 

I am in the middle of producing an S Scale kit of the Manning Wardle old I class.  It will be a mix of etch and 3D prints.  (a couple of my models are in the S Scale section of RMWeb).

 

What I am looking for is a photo of the front of the cyilinders under the smokebox behind the front headstock..  

 

Can anyone help please?

 

Many thanks in advance!!

 

 

[jdb82]

Does anyone know what the valve & tap on top of the firebox is?