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Bogie well wagon


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The 45ton bogie well wagon does look nice, but I can’t find any prototype history. Is it a freelance representation or is it based on an actual prototype, if so, which design and diagram number?

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4 minutes ago, 47606odin said:

The 45ton bogie well wagon does look nice, but I can’t find any prototype history. Is it a freelance representation or is it based on an actual prototype, if so, which design and diagram number?

 Can we please know which one you are on about as several have appeared over the years!

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1 minute ago, Mark Saunders said:

 Can we please know which one you are on about as several have appeared over the years!


the current one on the web page, that is sold in sr, gw, cr, livery etc. also comes with either slater’s spoked or disk wheels 

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4 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Looks like one of the GWR designs as it comes with Dean Chuchward design hand brake!


I had noticed the handbrake lever, so that then opens the question would the GWR have produced them for other companies? I know these things did happen

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I've bought one of these wagons, even though the prototype isn't likely to have been seen anywhere near a North Eastern branchline, so I've been searching for information and photos.

 

In "A Pictorial Record of Great Western Wagons" by J Russell (1971) there is a diagram of a Crocodile H (I think this has been re-drawn as it shows the well as being 30' whereas it should be 20') and photos of 41973. The text states that the numbers were 41900 and 41947-41975; I believe that this should be 41900, 41947, 41973-41975.

 

"Great Western Wagons Appendix" by J Russell (1974) has a photo of 41974, taken in 1937.

 

"A History of GWR Goods Wagons, Volume 2" by Atkins, Beard, Hyde, & Tourret (1976) has photos of 41947 in 1909 as a Crocodile D and in 1940 as a Crocodile H. The captions state that it was lengthened in 1915 when it was rebuilt as a 45T vehicle. The text states that all of the Crocodile H's were strengthened in 1936 to make 65T vehicles. Info in the combined volume (see below) suggests that some had already been upgraded.

 

"Great Western Wagons Plan Book" by J Russell (1976) has diagrams C2 (41900 and 41947, as modified in 1915), C23 (41973-41975, as built 1926) and C27 (41973 and 41974, as modified in 1931 with additional cross members in the well).

 

"Freight Wagons and Loads on the GWR and BR Western Region" by J Russell (1981) has photos of 41900 (9 photos), 41974 (4 photos) , and 41975 (1 photo). Not only are there a lot of photos, they are also the best re-produced (IMHO). The caption to one of the photos of 41974 states that it was taken in 1928 and you can see that it is branded as a 65T vehicle. So probably all of the 1926 vehicles were reclassified as 65T vehicles soon after being built.

 

"Great Western Goods Wagons" by Atkins, Beard, & Tourret (The big combined edition of 2013) has a few more photos of 41900, 41947 and 41974. It also suggests that 41900 and 41947 were replaced rather than rebuilt in 1915, the previous vehicles with these numbers having been sold to the war office.

 

Paul Bartlett's zenfolio site has a good selection of photos of 41975 taken in 1994 when it was in internal-user use at Llanwern.

 

Looking through the photos you can see that the earlier two wagons, 41900 and 41947 always had GWR square shank oval buffers so don't match the Darstaed model. Also, 41900 had triangular cut-outs in the decks, above the bogies. 41947 was probably the same but the photos don't show that part of the vehicle.

 

So the Darstaed model best represents one of the 1926 vehicles. If the period is after 1936 then 41975 is the only one, due to the alterations to the cross-members of 41973/4 (although that could be covered by a load, or by packing material).
 

Edited by Rambler
Incorrect wagon number
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On 13/12/2020 at 00:18, Rambler said:

It’s based on GWR diagram C23, so OK for GWR, BR, and possibly NCB. There were only a handful of these wagons and some have detail differences, e.g. buffers. All the other versions are fictitious.

If it is C23 I have a number of photos at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrcrocodile they went into internal uses in South Wales. There is no reason why a GW or W wagon wouldn't be worked to anywhere in the country. There are photos of Crocodiles loaded with specialist marine parts and they could be used anywhere in the country - not least ship building works in the North or Scotland. 

 

I've very recently helped Darstaed with decoration for some of their new model. The manufacturer is quite clear that the models are completely fictitious but his customers welcome accurate writing and realistic finish despite the model being quite wrong. They are for a market unfamiliar to many of us. 

 

Paul

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According to the Vintage Carriage Trust’s Wagon Survey, 41975 is preserved on the Dean Forest, sporting a “black and shades of rust” livery. This is the one that is on Paul Bartlett’s zenfolio site.

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