Best paints for modeling BR Period colours

[MoarCrossovers]

What are the best shades of paints for painting models (mainly rolling stock and buildings) in the liveries of the various BR regions?

[zarniwhoop]

Okay, since you asked I'll bite with "it depends". My BR interest is Southern Region (1960s) and enthusiasts can argue for ever about the "right" shades of green (particularly for carriages, EMUs and DEMUs - the green on stations seems slightly less problematic although many colour photos show very pale green on signalboxes.

 

And then there is the "scale colour" debate.

 

Again, for BR(S) and as someone who prefers enamels, my preference is to mix shades (from the same brand).

 

For me, in 4mm scale recent Hornby greens, and also Bachmann green on DEMUs and EMUs have been acceptable.  Bachmann green on Mk1 and Bulleid loco-hauled coaches in recent years has been far too dark. But some of this differs between individuals - a few years ago I saw a layout at Warley with S.W. division EMUs on it - the trains were good but their colours looked far too dark to me.

[Steamport Southport]

Best paints for railway colours? 

 

Phoenix for enamel.

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/

 

Also available from some retailers such as Peters Spares.

 

https://www.petersspares.com/paints-phoenix-paints.irc

 

Also some of the Halfords spray cans are pretty good. Here is a list of which ones are a good match.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55966-raf-kinloss-mrc-halfords-paint-list-2012-version/

 

I can't recommend any type of acrylic as I don't use them. Maybe someone else has a recommendation?

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I use acrylics, because they are easy to manage and because my modelling is done within the living area of a flat in a house of flats, so I am concious of unpleasant odours.  Halfords' rattlecan acrylics for spray jobs (done on the patio on dry calm days), and whatever looks right to me in my local Antics for brush jobs, a mixture of Humbrol and Tamiya.  I sometimes have to mix colours for the desired result, easy enough with acrylics.

 

I think it is possible to become obseesed* with achieving the exactly correct shade and finish in modelling, when in reality this is only really appropriate for ex-works condition stock.  Colours on real railways were and are modified by lighting, weather conditions, atmospheric visibility, and the surface they are painted on to.  The paints used differed in their propensity to fade or discolour, and dirt altered things every time it rained no matter how assiduously cleaned the stock was; a rough run on a wet day with a long distance express which passed through industrial areas in steam days would be pretty mucky at it's destination, especially the lower panels.

 

Looking at a colour photograph of a train from the early BR days and using it as a guide to accurate colour and finish rendition on a model introduces an unmanageable number of simultaneous variables; the colour in the photo is affected by the lighting at the time/location the shutter was pressed, which may be affected by reflected light from objects out of frame, and is in any case a function of the film used, it's storage, and the print process, including it's transfer to digital media, then the settings of the monitor screen you are viewing it on; this is far too many balls to keep in the air for those seeking ultimate accuracty!

 

On top of that there was a period between about 1948 and 54 when getting the specified colours for painting wooden goods and NPCCS vans was diffiuclt in a country suffering under a post war austerity economy in which exports were vital to maintain an achievable balance of payments.  Paint was a priority export product and the railway workshops had to make do with what they could get, a factor which no doubt influenced Riddles' livery choices.  Wooden bodied unfitted opens, even brand new ones, and XPO minerals were not painted at all, and went into service in bare wood, not even treated or varnished (many of these wagons had very limited life expectancy anyway). 

 

So, for modelling purposes  and assuming youj weather your models, even if only to the extent of toning them down with a light wash of 'muck' to take the new off, close enough for jazz is adequate for most early BR situations.  Buildings took some time to paint in the regional colours, but this job was done by and large by the late 50s, around the same time as regional autonomy with regard to liveries was broadened. 

 

This happened after Riddles' time and the 1955 re-organisation, and allowed the WR to use a chocolate and cream iivery, similar but not identical to GW livery and lined differently, with a chocolate band at cantrail level, on named trains, and the Southern to use malachite green on coaching stock, though at least two versions appeared.  The Southern is a bit of a mixed bag at this time, as they had been using 'electric green' for emu stock, and the overlap between this and their various interpretations of malachite was confusing.  The LMR took advantage by painting some Princess and Duchess class pacifics in a version of LMS/Midland crimson lake, but again there were slightly different shades and I would hesitate to say that any of them were the same as LMS crimson lake.

 

There were also 50 shades (at least) of grey for unfitted freight and mineral stock, and a similar variety of bauxites for fitted, complicated by the liveries looking different on wooden and steel bodied stock, and to my eye between planked and plywood sheeted wooden stock. 

 

 

*before anyone makes the point, I am aware that a degree of obsessiveness in one's character is a very useful trait in modelling; we attempt obsessively to get things right to the best of our ability and the best of us at doing that tend to be particularly focussed and determined to do things a certain way.  The point I am making is that we must, each of us, achieve our own workable balance between the obsessive need to be accurate and the need to have lives as well, and that this is helped by an understanding of the undeniable fact that obsessive accuracy is subject to the law of diminishing returns.  My view is that this is nowhere more apparent than when it comes to the accuracy of colours and finishes on models.

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The LMR took advantage by painting some Princess and Duchess class pacifics in a version of LMS/Midland crimson lake, but again there were slightly different shades and I would hesitate to say that any of them were the same as LMS crimson lake.

 

 

Easy way to check. Look at the Midland Compound and put some BR Maroon coaches behind it. Exactly the same colour. As was 5690 which spent years pushing it around on railtours. Any perceived difference is usually caused by the type of lining.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/164039623@N04/49391242237/

 

 

People also debate that the Duchesses were a different colour to the coaches. They weren't. Proof here.

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest WM183]

For airbrushing? Vallejo Model Air.

 

For brush painting? Vallejo Model Air.

 

You may notice a theme.

[bike2steam]

In the train-set world everything is clean, tidy, and eternally brand new. In the real world everything weathers as soon as it leaves the works, then your true colour shades go right out the window. Always work to colour photos, and colour match with whatever you can find - but wait, how good was the colour reproduction on that photo?????????????????

 

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, bike2steam said:

In the train-set world everything is clean, tidy, and eternally brand new. In the real world everything weathers as soon as it leaves the works, then your true colour shades go right out the window. Always work to colour photos, and colour match with whatever you can find - but wait, how good was the colour reproduction on that photo?????????????????

 

 

However you weather or tone down the models after they have been painted properly. So they should be painted the correct colour first.

 

If you are painting them lighter then they just look wrong. Look at any model of a black locomotive that someone has lightened the paint to make it a bit greyer. It looks terrible. You paint it as if it's ex works and then lighten it using you prefered techniques.

 

If you start lightening red coaches and locomotives it just comes out pink!  

 

 

Jason

[ColinK]

Lifecolor do some BR colours in acrylic paint - I’ve used the BR blue and its fine.

[zarniwhoop]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

However you weather or tone down the models after they have been painted properly. So they should be painted the correct colour first.

 

If you are painting them lighter then they just look wrong. Look at any model of a black locomotive that someone has lightened the paint to make it a bit greyer. It looks terrible. You paint it as if it's ex works and then lighten it using you prefered techniques.

 

I take it you don't model rail blue then ?  I can remember seeing 2-PAN (ex 2-HAL) EMUs at Hove in whenever, and my memory says that the faded rail blue shades are in the right ballpark for those.

 

Personally, for 4mm scale I think that the concept of scale colour has something going for it - I've seen that Phoenix are supplied to preserved railways and are as close as possible to correct shade (if applied over a white base!), but for 4mm scale some of their shades look far too dark to me.

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, zarniwhoop said:

I take it you don't model rail blue then ?  I can remember seeing 2-PAN (ex 2-HAL) EMUs at Hove in whenever, and my memory says that the faded rail blue shades are in the right ballpark for those.

 

Personally, for 4mm scale I think that the concept of scale colour has something going for it - I've seen that Phoenix are supplied to preserved railways and are as close as possible to correct shade (if applied over a white base!), but for 4mm scale some of their shades look far too dark to me.

 

I modelled BR blue era for decades.

 

Always painted them properly and then toned them down after they were finished. They didn't come out of Crewe, Derby,  Wolverton, etc. faded. That's for you to do afterwards with weathering powders or washes.

 

I also feel that most of the paints don't quite match the BR Blue that I remember. It's too blue and flat. The original version had a slight green tinge. Something that doesn't show in most photographs either. Maybe it's something to do with the natural light conditions.

 

Phoenix is the closest to what I remember.

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/precisionrailway/nationalised/14p132

 

 

Jason

[hmrspaul]

On 13/12/2020 at 18:32, Steamport Southport said:

 

Easy way to check. Look at the Midland Compound and put some BR Maroon coaches behind it. Exactly the same colour. As was 5690 which spent years pushing it around on railtours. Any perceived difference is usually caused by the type of lining.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/164039623@N04/49391242237/

 

 

People also debate that the Duchesses were a different colour to the coaches. They weren't. Proof here.

 

 

 

Jason

And David Jenkinson would have totally agreed with you. He could bore for Britain on how this colour in the paint pot hadn't changed from MR days, but the way it was applied, the number of coats, the undercoating, the preparation between coats all made for differences of appearance. 

 

And my advice to the OP, just don't paint any two vehicles/locos in the exactly same colour except if they are supposed to only be days from workshops. 

 

Paul

[zarniwhoop]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I modelled BR blue era for decades.

 

Always painted them properly and then toned them down after they were finished. They didn't come out of Crewe, Derby,  Wolverton, etc. faded. That's for you to do afterwards with weathering powders or washes.

 

I also feel that most of the paints don't quite match the BR Blue that I remember. It's too blue and flat. The original version had a slight green tinge. Something that doesn't show in most photographs either. Maybe it's something to do with the natural light conditions.

 

Phoenix is the closest to what I remember.

I doubt we will ever agree, so I'll merely say that I think the paint I apply should approach the shade I want to see, and that for me "weathering" is applying dirt or, less frequently, white to represent the effects of carriage washing plants. A different example - I have panels of styrene (strips a few cm wide) painted with various colours to get a feel for what I want to use. From memory, if something is black (with the possible exception of black steam locomotive tanks, boilers, cabs - not something I've been too interested in so far) then the darkest shade I'll use is Revell 78 (e.g. for a carriage roof). Certainly, for a smokebox I'd tend to use a paler shade of grey.

 

But your comment about a green tinge in rail blue is interesting - I've never been aware of that, although I can remember watching a football match on colour TV soon after my parents first got one, and remarking that to me the grass looked a bit blue. From that I guess that our individual perception of colours will vary.

[Grizz]

Sorry this is bit delayed but I only found this tin of paint today...

As can be seen it is a tin of Cherry Scale Models BR Diesel Blue (BR RAIL BLUE) enamel paint. I bought it at the Brighton Model Show in around 1991/2....it has survived all these years tucked away in a box in the loft since we moved to our current house in 1996.  The most totally amazing thing is that is still perfectly useable after all these years...but most importantly IMHO it is the best rail blue paint for colour. It definitely does have a slightly green tint to it, particularly in natural light. Such as shame that I didn’t buy more of it back then...
 

 

[cravensdmufan]

58 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Sorry this is bit delayed but I only found this tin of paint today...

As can be seen it is a tin of Cherry Scale Models BR Diesel Blue (BR RAIL BLUE) enamel paint. I bought it at the Brighton Model Show in around 1991/2....it has survived all these years tucked away in a box in the loft since we moved to our current house in 1996.  The most totally amazing thing is that is still perfectly useable after all these years...but most importantly IMHO it is the best rail blue paint for colour. It definitely does have a slightly green tint to it, particularly in natural light. Such as shame that I didn’t buy more of it back then...
 

 

That colour shade certainly looks very good indeed.