Ebay and Brexit. NOT a Brexit debate.

[LimboBrit]

On 05/01/2021 at 21:24, cessna152towser said:

The Withdrawal Agreement covering EU Citizens in UK and vice versa specifies that family gifts would be customs exempt, but says nothing about VAT.

The information I have gleaned from the Dutch government websites is that for gifts below a value of 45 Euros no duty or VAT will be due. Above this value and up to 700 Euros applicable duties need to be paid as well as the appropriate VAT rate. More than 700 Euros standard tariffs will apply. Having said that the Withdrawal Agreement is still being studied and they have warned that this information could change. Basically, it would seem nobody knows what is going on.

[Crosland]

39 minutes ago, JimFin said:

But as far as I understand, only if the German (or other EU) trader has a VAT registration as an exporter which permits VAT free exports otherwise they have to charge it? Anyone know different?

VAT registration thresholds in a lot of EU countries are a lot lower than the UK so an EU trader is more likely to be VAT registered. Germany, for example, is €22k compared to £85k in the UK.

[Crosland]

17 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

 warned that this information could change.

For receiving stuff into the EU it WILL all change in the summer when the new EU wide VAT system comes into effect.

[Oldddudders]

Here in France I am wary of future purchases from the UK, due to scope for paying both VAT and TVA. I have thrown a £200 pebble in the pond with a DCC item. The seller appears to have knocked off the VAT, so that is good. Because this is all new, I expect the French will add TVA. They have always seemed a bit lax about it before, regarding products from outside the EU, where it should have been payable. in 16 years of occasional imports from the USA, I think I have had to pay up once - well, it was a 4-6-6-4 - and that's generally choosing sellers who weren't using the Pitney-Bowes scam. Then there was the £2k camera from HK, with not a euro surcharge......

[JimFin]

So - what I now understand the situation to be is - IF the trader is registered in an EU country under an exporter scheme, they can deduct their countries VAT, if they are not in an exporters scheme, they cannot  deduct. If the seller is a private individual or not registered, they are not charging VAT so no deduction is possible. eBay will add 20% to the amount due and pass to HMRC. A further twist -

 

"This is eBay’s statement:
Starting from January 1, 2021, eBay will, in accordance with laws and regulations, treat goods imported into the UK and sold to consumers in the UK with a value of not more than £135, as well as for sellers of non-UK companies, stored in the UK in advance and sold to British consumers’ goods are collected and paid for British value-added tax. From the above date, eBay directly collects the corresponding value-added tax from the buyer in accordance with local laws and regulations and pays the collected value-added tax to the relevant agencies."

 

This impact being, even if the listing says the location is London - a further 20% may be added if the account holder is non-UK member and the item was being held in a warehouse.
 

[LimboBrit]

11 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The seller appears to have knocked off the VAT, so that is good.

In that case the damage should be minimal if any. It depends on how the TVA rate compares with VAT and as you say whether the French customs even bother at all. Above 150 Euros import duty is payable which for model railway items I understand is zero

[phil-b259]

36 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

The information I have gleaned from the Dutch government websites is that for gifts below a value of 45 Euros no duty or VAT will be due. Above this value and up to 700 Euros applicable duties need to be paid as well as the appropriate VAT rate. More than 700 Euros standard tariffs will apply.

 

But do Euro standard Tariffs mirror WTO ones?

 

Model railways are zero rated under WTO terms so they could well also be zero rated by the EU just leaving VAT to pay.

[LimboBrit]

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

Model railways are zero rated under WTO terms so they could well also be zero rated by the EU just leaving VAT to pay.

Exactly

[adb968008]

Interesting to see how this pans out,

 

i bought some coaches off ebay, s/h private seller before New Years.

He hasnt shipped because of Covid ban on UK.

 

When these turn up am I going to get taxed on them ?

[John M Upton]

As they are second hand and therefore in theory the purchase tax relevant to where they were originally bought new has already been paid then no you should not have to pay again.

[john new]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

As they are second hand and therefore in theory the purchase tax relevant to where they were originally bought new has already been paid then no you should not have to pay again.

Has that changed for everything? 
 

Used to be the case that if it was originally UK made and exported (no tax paid) you had to pay UK tax on it if it came back to UK.  

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

As they are second hand and therefore in theory the purchase tax relevant to where they were originally bought new has already been paid then no you should not have to pay again.

 

My point exactly, but I can't establish whether or not E bay takes account of second hand sales or whether it slaps VAT on everything we in the EU purchase from E bay UK

[Oldddudders]

On 08/01/2021 at 10:02, Oldddudders said:

Here in France I am wary of future purchases from the UK, due to scope for paying both VAT and TVA. I have thrown a £200 pebble in the pond with a DCC item. The seller appears to have knocked off the VAT, so that is good. Because this is all new, I expect the French will add TVA. They have always seemed a bit lax about it before, regarding products from outside the EU, where it should have been payable. in 16 years of occasional imports from the USA, I think I have had to pay up once - well, it was a 4-6-6-4 - and that's generally choosing sellers who weren't using the Pitney-Bowes scam. Then there was the £2k camera from HK, with not a euro surcharge......

So, my £224 (postage-paid) DCC item, for which the actual PayPal bill came to £187, arrived today. The seller had fulfilled all requirements, with a figure of £187 correctly entered on the CN22 Customs Declaration form. France seems not to have been very interested and no TVA has been levied. So I have bought something and paid no VAT in either country. Note that this was not an ebay sale, although the seller offers, and I used, PayPal. 

[andyman7]

On 10/01/2021 at 09:58, Colin_McLeod said:

 

My point exactly, but I can't establish whether or not E bay takes account of second hand sales or whether it slaps VAT on everything we in the EU purchase from E bay UK

Below the £135 limit it puts the tax on everything if you bought from ebay under the EU deal, because they legally classify your sale as from ebay (with the original seller having supplied ebay the goods). There has never been an exemption for secondhand goods or goods made in the UK. I collect diecast toys, and if I find a vintage boxed Dinky Toy for £50 in the US that is the amount that VAT will be charged on, regardless of the fact that it was a) made in the UK and b) would have cost 3/6 when new if bought here......

Edited January 11, 2021 by andyman7

[LimboBrit]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

So, my £224 (postage-paid) DCC item, for which the actual PayPal bill came to £187, arrived today. The seller had fulfilled all requirements, with a figure of £187 correctly entered on the CN22 Customs Declaration form. France seems not to have been very interested and no TVA has been levied. So I have bought something and paid no VAT in either country. Note that this was not an ebay sale, although the seller offers, and I used, PayPal. 

I think you can consider yourself lucky in this case

[LimboBrit]

I was considering buying some laser cut railings on eBay from scalemodelscenery who are VAT registered. They need to figure out how to deduct UK VAT for shipment to NL on the eBay checkout. It seems it is not as straight forward as one would hope. Mind you, I've just found out it would be cheaper anyway to buy from them directly instead of through eBay

[EddieB]

One thing I've noticed from a recent book purchase from a dealer in Sweden (not eBay), is that VAT is deducted in the country of origin, but no UK VAT applied (well, in theory it is applied, but is zero-rated).  Therefore books ordered from the EU could become slightly cheaper, according to VAT ratings in the country of the seller.

 

My question is whether eBay has applied these discounts with the same zeal with which it appears to have applied VAT charges?

 

 

[john new]

On 11/01/2021 at 13:35, andyman7 said:

Below the £135 limit it puts the tax on everything if you bought from ebay under the EU deal, because they legally classify your sale as from ebay (with the original seller having supplied ebay the goods). There has never been an exemption for secondhand goods or goods made in the UK. I collect diecast toys, and if I find a vintage boxed Dinky Toy for £50 in the US that is the amount that VAT will be charged on, regardless of the fact that it was a) made in the UK and b) would have cost 3/6 when new if bought here......

But as it was an untaxed export originally, and you are now reimporting it, you always would have had to pay UK import taxes. Stopped me buying some old Hornby-Dublo (originally Canadian exports) in the past when I was actively collecting for my old exhibition set. The loco would have exhausted my then available budget with a fair whack on top for customs dues. Never have got one of the Canadian Atholls.

[40F]

On 11/01/2021 at 14:47, LimboBrit said:

I was considering buying some laser cut railings on eBay from scalemodelscenery who are VAT registered. They need to figure out how to deduct UK VAT for shipment to NL on the eBay checkout. It seems it is not as straight forward as one would hope. Mind you, I've just found out it would be cheaper anyway to buy from them directly instead of through eBay

 

 

Multiply the original cost by 100 and divide by 120 and the gives you the price excluding VAT.

[LimboBrit]

4 minutes ago, 40F said:

 

 

Multiply the original cost by 100 and divide by 120 and the gives you the price excluding VAT.

I think they understand that much. The eBay platform is not geared up for it though. 

[JSpencer]

On 10/01/2021 at 01:29, adb968008 said:

Interesting to see how this pans out,

 

i bought some coaches off ebay, s/h private seller before New Years.

He hasnt shipped because of Covid ban on UK.

 

When these turn up am I going to get taxed on them ?

 

Ebay do VAT (even on private sales) up front and nothing after. So if your transaction with delivery to the EU was before 31st december, it should not be affected. On the other hand I brought a pair of LCDR coach kits from a "private seller" on e-bay and they got pre-charged VAT by E-Bay with the postage. The items were fairly cheap (probably due to the glut of generic coaches) so I was not worried. Another item, brought off an e-bay "retailer" did not get these extra charges.

Basically I won't be buying much else off e-bay as a lot of sellers were no longer posting to Europe (seems like all countries in the EU are tarred with the same brush when it comes to delivery reliability) and those that do, I don't fancy this hassle.

 

That said, I brought an item off rails on the 27th November and it was heavily delayed in the post, only arrived this week. There were no charges on top. While retail sales themselves have been a bit of a mix bag, either charging VAT up front or not depending on who you buy from. All items brought still fairly small in value, I've not tested a more expensive item yet.

 

My biggest bug bear in all this, is that my local (Paris) Marks & Spencer can no longer easily bring meat produce over from the UK and I can no longer buy my weekly Indian meal!