Steve's 1980s rail pictures.

[brushman47544]

7 hours ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

Here are some more from Milton Keynes for you. You could model an electric on a liner, a 25 on an electrification train or what I seem to remember as a Scottish 47 on a PW train.

 

 

 

Definitely a Scottish 47/4; the ETH has clearly been moved from the original high position to the buffer beam.

[SouthernBlue80s]

23 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Definitely a Scottish 47/4; the ETH has clearly been moved from the original high position to the buffer beam.

 

It is the last thing you would be expect to turn up at Milton Keynes.

 

This 31 also surfaced. Not sure how common they were.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Storey]

21 hours ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

Yes  - they were a very versatile bit of kit. Definitely one of very best locos BR had.

 

Did they have any niggles or poorly designed aspects to them? As, as a whole they were great bits of engineering.

 

A few minor ones (such as lack of compatibility with EMU's for the 73/0's), but their main problem was being underpowered in diesel mode (just 600 hp). Hence their use in pairs quite a lot, when on not particularly heavy train loads. So, whilst they could fairly easily haul a 1,000 tonne train on the third rail, they would often need a second loco to do the "last mile", off the juice, which was a bit of a waste overall. Of course, when designed, there weren't that many 1,000 tonne trains on the SR (if any?), but increasingly the cross-London freights, and even the Dovers, were easily making that weight and more as time went on, what with the  aggregate and scrap 102 tonners, and the longer car trains. The later power upgrades for some of the fleet (re-classified 73/9) did attempt to rectify that to some extent, doubling the diesel power to around 1500/1600 hp, by installing two MTU/Cummins engines).

[Nearholmer]

What an excellent thread - thank you.

 

My memories overlap quite a bit: grew-up in East Sussex; explored Kent by rail in the early 70s; worked all over the southern from mid-70s to late-80s; went "up north" for both enthusiast and work visits; and, all those MK shots are perfect, because I lived there from 1982!

 

The thing so many enthusiasts from further afield failed to understand in the 70s and early-80s, because all they could see was hundreds of EMUs "all the same", was how varied the Southern was, and how much of it was still very firmly fixed in the 1930s and 1950s. 

[SED Freightman]

54 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

A few minor ones (such as lack of compatibility with EMU's for the 73/0's), but their main problem was being underpowered in diesel mode (just 600 hp). Hence their use in pairs quite a lot, when on not particularly heavy train loads. So, whilst they could fairly easily haul a 1,000 tonne train on the third rail, they would often need a second loco to do the "last mile", off the juice, which was a bit of a waste overall. Of course, when designed, there weren't that many 1,000 tonne trains on the SR (if any?), but increasingly the cross-London freights, and even the Dovers, were easily making that weight and more as time went on, what with the  aggregate and scrap 102 tonners, and the longer car trains. The later power upgrades for some of the fleet (re-classified 73/9) did attempt to rectify that to some extent, doubling the diesel power to around 1500/1600 hp, by installing two MTU/Cummins engines).

The were used in pairs on MGR coal trains to/from Cricklewood Brent Sdgs, around 1600t trailing load, not fast but they got there over the non electrified Dudding Hill Branch.  As Mike mentions, the JA's and JB's would not work in multiple, an issue which resulted in the occasional cancellation of Betteshanger - Scunthorpe MGR trains when for a time the empties were worked in with a single loco and another arrived light engine from Ramsgate (off a newspaper train ?), all good unless the Ramsgate loco turned out to be a JA.

[Davexoc]

2 hours ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

This 31 also surfaced. Not sure how common they were.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They weren't that common, in that not every day, but IIRC they would normally be ER allocated ones dropping stock off at Wolverton for refurbs. Sometimes 31, sometimes 37...

[SouthernBlue80s]

20 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What an excellent thread - thank you.

 

My memories overlap quite a bit: grew-up in East Sussex; explored Kent by rail in the early 70s; worked all over the southern from mid-70s to late-80s; went "up north" for both enthusiast and work visits; and, all those MK shots are perfect, because I lived there from 1982!

 

The thing so many enthusiasts from further afield failed to understand in the 70s and early-80s, because all they could see was hundreds of EMUs "all the same", was how varied the Southern was, and how much of it was still very firmly fixed in the 1930s and 1950s. 

 

Thank you.

Where abouts on the Southern did you work?

Edited March 1, 2021 by SouthernBlue80s

[SouthernBlue80s]

A sea of rails.

 

PIctures of Clapham Junction for Nearholmer.......and the rest of you lot.

Featuring that long leaky footbridge.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by SouthernBlue80s

[Nearholmer]

During training I had placements at all sorts of places, although never further west that Easleigh IIRC, then I was based at Southern House, with projects (not that we called them that then) across the electrified areas at different times. Most of Kent was a fairly quiet area in that respect until the Hastings Line electrification because, beyond the M&G area, most of the gear was not all that old, but I did have a project at Canterbury at one stage. Most electrification renewals and upgrades were on the Mid-Sussex Line, Portsmouth Line, Egham-Reading ...... the late 1930s kit coming to end of life, plus reconfigurations to what was known as the "change of frequency" area.

[Nearholmer]

16 minutes ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

Featuring that long leaky footbridge.

 

Which had an out-office of Waterloo ODM Department, and a really rough old mess/rest room leading off it.

 

The "fire training school", or maybe "first-aid school" was at CJ too, IIRC - I was coming back from there with colleagues, after an annual "refresher", when we bumped into a gaggle of 'spotters, all eagerly scribbling in note books. The wisecrack among us went up to the lads and said, very gently and earnestly: "I'm not sure if you know, but you can buy a book with all those numbers in it already, so you don't have to write them down.". They truly didn't know how to take it, and I'm sure they didn't know they'd been ripped.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nearholmer

[73c]

Fire training and the First aid were at CJ, out the station and turn right up the hill. Went there for both when I joined the ODM at Waterloo.

[Nearholmer]

Waterloo ODM, eh? I was there for a while when I was a very callow trainee, at the deeply useless stage, and got thoroughly ripped for my innocence, but got involved in some really interesting jobs - the steam cranes at Woking PAD for instance. Got issued with an excellent set of tools when I was there too, many of which I still use (which probably means that technically I stole them from BR when I left).

[73c]

Only remember the 1 steam crane, went there with the Boiler inspectors once. Did other jobs at Woking station, mainly the goods lifts. I was based under the station at Waterloo, next to the BRS/Parcel vehicle repair shop.

[Davexoc]

I see a PEP unit lurking in the background. I thought they had gone by then....

[Nearholmer]

IIRC, there were two long arches off the lower road near the old W&C power station and depot, one that was the ODM depot, and the other a stores, I think, but it might be that there was only one, and I'm mis-remembering. They also had "another bit", over near the little courtyard below the Armstrong Lift, I think. I have to confess that I'm getting hazy on it all, because I spent some time with a Work Study team at Waterloo, sort-of a semi-detached branch of the ODM, who were trying to create a listing of every single E&M asset on the station - that got us into every nook and cranny of the place.

 

When did you work there? I think it was probably 1977 when I was there.

 

[SouthernBlue - tell me if I'm in danger of thread-jacking by rambling-on so much]

 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Nearholmer

[SouthernBlue80s]

18 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

IIRC, there were two long arches off the lower road near the old W&C power station and depot, one that was the ODM depot, and the other a stores, I think, but it might be that there was only one, and I'm mis-remembering. They also had "another bit", over near the little courtyard below the Armstrong Lift, I think. I have to confess that I'm getting hazy on it all, because I spent some time with a Work Study team at Waterloo, sort-of a semi-detached branch of the ODM, who were trying to create a listing of every single E&M asset on the station - that got us into every nook and cranny of the place.

 

When did you work there? I think it was probably 1977 when I was there.

 

[SouthernBlue - tell me if I'm in danger of thread-jacking by rambling-on so much]

 

 

 

No problem. Crack on.

 

That is what the pictures are there for. They aren't great but hopefully they bring back memories for some and get people talking, commenting on those days. 

[SouthernBlue80s]

29 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

I see a PEP unit lurking in the background. I thought they had gone by then....

 

I seem to remember that languishing there for quite a while.

[73c]

Started there at 16, so about '78 then moved over to the ODM at Victoria. ( left a longer reply on your 'Board' )

[73c]

1 minute ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

I seem to remember that languishing there for quite a while.

Just at the end of those sidings was the S&T training school iirc

[Nearholmer]

40 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

I see a PEP unit lurking in the background. I thought they had gone by then..

 

4002, painted in a very stripey livery, was stored there for ages between test runs. I've just found a photo I took of it on a test run just country side of Wimbledon in june 1980. What I can't remember is what the tests were about ....... possibly signaling immunisation.

 

Also, a photo of another PEP driving car at Derby RTC, taken in April 1980.

[Davexoc]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

4002, painted in a very stripey livery, was stored there for ages between test runs. I've just found a photo I took of it on a test run just country side of Wimbledon in june 1980. What I can't remember is what the tests were about ....... possibly signaling immunisation.

 

Also, a photo of another PEP driving car at Derby RTC, taken in April 1980.

 

But going on the image with 50005, that is probably September 1982 at the earliest, 005 being released from refurb during August that year.

[Nearholmer]

It was there for a very long time.

 

Blood & Custard, who usually knows his stuff, says:

 

Unit back to Strawberry Hill 17‑Mar‑80 and coaches renumbered into departmental series during Apr‑80, though unit no. 4002 still displayed on cab ends.

 

A further period at Derby from 26‑Jun‑80 and return to the BR(S) 12‑Sep‑80 saw the unit used for testing BP25 air-sprung bogies until Mar‑81 when it was then stored at Wimbledon Park until removed to Clapham Yard 22‑Feb‑83. Unit then stored out of use until 5‑Jun‑90 when returned to Strawberry Hill for stripping.

 

TBH, I didn't know it had been to Derby in 1980, I thought it was on the Southern throughout. I've also got a few photos that I took at Strawberry Hill in 1980, if I can find them - it might in one of those too.

[jbqfc]

20 hours ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

I seem to remember that languishing there for quite a while.

 

i saw it there in December 1987

[Mike Storey]

On 01/03/2021 at 18:47, 73c said:

Fire training and the First aid were at CJ, out the station and turn right up the hill. Went there for both when I joined the ODM at Waterloo.

 

Also there, for the less engineering and operations minded, was the Ticket Collection Office, which received all the used tickets, stubs and 4407's taken by ticket collectors and guards throughout the SR. I had to go there several times on fraud enquiries. It was run by four, middle aged ladies, who really knew their stuff. In amongst the piles and piles of old tickets, they could point me to exactly what I needed within a few minutes. Miraculous, if you had seen it. We caught many ne'er do wells that way. I think it shut down after APTIS/PORTIS fully came in, when it became much easier to track down frauds.

[SED Freightman]

2 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Also there, for the less engineering and operations minded, was the Ticket Collection Office, which received all the used tickets, stubs and 4407's taken by ticket collectors and guards throughout the SR. I had to go there several times on fraud enquiries. It was run by four, middle aged ladies, who really knew their stuff. In amongst the piles and piles of old tickets, they could point me to exactly what I needed within a few minutes. Miraculous, if you had seen it. We caught many ne'er do wells that way. I think it shut down after APTIS/PORTIS fully came in, when it became much easier to track down frauds.

I'm sure that at one time collected tickets and used seasons etc. were sent in pre-addressed envelopes to the Ticket Checking Section, Purley (possibly located in the old loco shed), did the Clapham Junction office move to Purley or vice versa, or was it a separate operation ?

I had a couple of visits to the fire training school off St John's Hill, Clapham, the best part of which always came at the end of the course when you got the opportunity to point a fire extinguisher at a couple of burning cardboard boxes !  On one occaision, whilst based for a while at Southern House but commuting from Kent, I remember being a bit put out at having been sent for fire training at Clapham whilst a colleague living in Colliers Wood was sent for fire training at Ashford Works and duly reported back on the delights of the Kiln Cafe.