Nu-Cast J21, looking for guidance on Motor/gearbox selection, and tips on building.

[Paul_sterling]

Morning All, 

 

I have a J21 Nu-cast kit. I've never built a loco kit before, but I have designed and built a number of Locos with my 3D printed shells. 

 

The kit I have is as dispatched from Nu-cast, so no wheels, motor gearbox etc.

 

I'm looking for advice on the correct brand and model of motor gearbox, as well as choice of wheels, I've used Alan Gibson in the past, so that was my first thought on it. 

 

Any advice on construction/assembly of this particular kit would be most appreciated. 

 

Thanks, Paul. 

[MarkC]

Hi Paul

 

Nucast kits, whilst quite old, can make up into quite nice models. The J21 is a good example of this.

 

However, the chassis supplied with the kit will probably be a whitemetal block. I don't think that it was ever sold with brass frames? It was designed to take an XO4/Romford Bulldog type motor, with 40:1 Romford gears. When it came out, Romford (now Markits) wheels were pretty much the 'go to' wheels for the constructor, but these days, as you say, Gibson wheels are available.

 

The motor tended to protrude into the cab as well, which back then was accepted by many, but these days, as you know, people try to avoid this.

 

I've actually got a J21 kit in my roundtuit pile; my plan was/is to obtain some Gibson frames and use a High Level gearbox with a Mitsumi motor. I'll probably use Gibson wheels myself too.

 

Will follow your progress with interest. Good luck.

 

Mark

[hayfield]

Paul

 

Wheels,

 

If you can get on with Gibson wheels then go ahead and use them, I think they look better than Romford wheels but so much harder to quarter

 

Gear box

 

No brainer High Level, below links to both the website and gearbox planner (I am assuming you have the brass frames which many of the later models seemed to have)

http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/   http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/gearboxplanningpage.html

 

I think you will be limited by the inside distance of the frames to a Road Runner or Slimliner +, the latter gives more options of where you can place the motor

 

Motor

 

Usually the advice is a Mashima, but they are now scarce and expensive . High Level sell a super coreless motor, superior to Mashimas and now probably cheaper, or they also sell a small iron frame motor at under £10 (I have both)

Edited December 14, 2020 by hayfield

[Paul_sterling]

5 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Hi Paul

 

Nucast kits, whilst quite old, can make up into quite nice models. The J21 is a good example of this.

 

However, the chassis supplied with the kit will probably be a whitemetal block. I don't think that it was ever sold with brass frames? It was designed to take an XO4/Romford Bulldog type motor, with 40:1 Romford gears. When it came out, Romford (now Markits) wheels were pretty much the 'go to' wheels for the constructor, but these days, as you say, Gibson wheels are available.

 

The motor tended to protrude into the cab as well, which back then was accepted by many, but these days, as you know, people try to avoid this.

 

I've actually got a J21 kit in my roundtuit pile; my plan was/is to obtain some Gibson frames and use a High Level gearbox with a Mitsumi motor. I'll probably use Gibson wheels myself too.

 

Will follow your progress with interest. Good luck.

 

Mark

 

Thank you Mark, (and John)

 

Yes the kit has the whitemetal frames with it, 52F do offer an etched kit to fit the Nu-Cast shell, but I thought of seeing how I get on first before getting serious with replacement frame kits etc (unless the general consensus was that the chassis supplied by Nu-cast required throwing out - time is precious you see). I suppose though, the cost of the 52F kit, isn't a great deal different, to wheels, gearbox, motor etc from different places, and it includes a set of frames. 

 

I may have an X04 lying around, I assume that almost everything Tri-ang made loco wise, their motors were XO4's, as I have a couple of ancient Tri-ang princess locos. 

 

I'll inspect the kit, and see what the chassis looks like. 

 

Cheers. Paul. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Paul_sterling

[MarkC]

6 minutes ago, Paul_sterling said:

 

Thank you Mark, (and John)

 

Yes the kit has the whitemetal frames with it, 52F do offer an etched kit to fit the Nu-Cast shell, but I thought of seeing how I get on first before getting serious with replacement frame kits etc (unless the general consensus was that the chassis supplied by Nu-cast required throwing out - time is precious you see). I suppose though, the cost of the 52F kit, isn't a great deal different, to wheels, gearbox, motor etc from different places, and it includes a set of frames. 

 

I may have an X04 lying around, I assume that almost everything Tri-ang made loco wise, their motors were XO4's, as I have a couple of ancient Tri-ang princess locos. 

 

I'll inspect the kit, and see what the chassis looks like. 

 

Cheers. Paul. 

 

Oh, it is possible to get the whitemetal block chassis to work - I've done it myself under a Nucast J27, a few years ago. I did use Romfords on it, but only because they were to hand.

 

The 52F chassis kit will be excellent - I haven't built one, but Peter's A8 & H1 chassis kits are very good indeed.

 

Yes, the XO4 was the usual motor for Triang - only the Dean Single and Caley Single had a smaller motor, if memory serves?

 

Mark

 

[30368]

Hi Paul,

 

I have built the Nu-Cast Partners C2X and found it all very straitforward but I had built a few loco's before. The C2X kit had been re-engineered by SEF and Branchlines so many of the original kits negative aspects had been ironed out e.g. brass frames and nice brakegear etches etc. White metal kits are a good place to start because progress is fairly rapid, certainly compared to brass/NS kits. I think your kit is also one re-engineered by Nu-Cast Partners?

 

I assembled the C2X body/tender with low melt solder - clean the surfaces to be joined very well, plenty of flux and don't leave the iron on too long! For the smaller parts I glued these on using good quality superglue.

 

As to the gearbox and motor - I am a big fan of High level gearbox and coreless motors, the latter are very small for their power output which will make life easier with the J21. Chris will help you make the best choice.

 

A few pictures to encourage:

 

 

 

 

 

I wish you the best of luck and please give me a shout if I can help further.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by 30368

[Michael Hodgson]

I thought wheels and chassis were included as part of that kit ?

 

I haven't built a J21 but I found their instructions OK for other kits they produced.  They probably recommend some motor that isn't easily obtainable any more though.  I use low melt solder for main body assembly and superglue for smaller fiddly bits on white metal locos.  Chassis shouldn't be at all difficult as it doesn't have outside cylinders & valve gear, though you might have to find a suitable way to mount your favourite couplings.

[micklner]

My 30 + years old Nucast J21 is still going well . Whitemetal chassis , it might be old fashioned but it simple and it works , cars use whitemetal for bearings as well!. She has a DS10 motor on a lost wax brass frame, and K's Drivers which still run true , even then cheaper than Romfords !! . No motor in Cab area either.

 

If I was building one nowdays ,a 52F Chassis and HL Box ,with a similar size N Drive Motor (on ebay) and Gibson Wheels , Markits are even dearer nowdays.

 

Nucast never had wheels with their kits. DJH did a long time ago.

Edited December 14, 2020 by micklner

[Paul Cram]

I have a 52f chassis under my J21. It is a superb chassis.

[CXW1]

Hello Paul

 

I would echo what others have said about using a 52F chassis.

 

I have a 52F chassis on my old Nu Cast G5 and it is excellent. It makes a huge difference to both the running and appearance of what was at best an OK model.

 

I don't have any knowledge of 52F's J21 kit but, assuming it follows the same design principle as the G5 chassis, it may include a gearbox which is integral to the chassis (thus avoiding the need to spend money on a separate gearbox).

 

Don't be put off by how fiddly the 52F stuff looks - it is really well designed and the instructions are very comprehensive with lots of diagrams.  

 

Good luck with which ever option you choose. Always good to see another NER modeller on here....

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

[30368]

20 hours ago, Paul_sterling said:

I have a J21 Nu-cast kit. I've never built a loco kit before, but I have designed and built a number of Locos with my 3D printed shells. 

 

Hi Paul,

 

It looks as if I got it wrong regarding your kit since it does not have a brass frame. Please accept my apologies. You seem to have had plenty of good advice from Chris and others though. I suspect then that the cast frame may limit your choices regarding a gearbox. I guess a few pictures during the build might help with further advice? I have no experience of 52F frames.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

[Paul_sterling]

Morning Everyone, 

 

Apologies for not replying to everyone individually, I had quite a busy evening (council meetings, eBay sales, 3D prints......), but I did at least read and digest each of your messages, so thank you all.

 

On all of your guidance, I am inclined towards the 52F chassis, it seems very well regarded, as does the high level gearboxes, but I think for simplicity, if I was to go 52F, I'd use the motor-gearbox provided in the kit, far less trouble for a tool like me. I don't think it is unduly expensive, and the secondary advantage is, if I was to design and print a new shell for it, it could be designed around the 52F chassis (unnecessary in all likelihood, but with LH&JC No.5, I've found my printers capacity for detail is quite impressive).

 

Best wishes all,

 

Paul. 

[Paul_sterling]

7 minutes ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi Paul,

 

It looks as if I got it wrong regarding your kit since it does not have a brass frame. Please accept my apologies. You seem to have had plenty of good advice from Chris and others though. I suspect then that the cast frame may limit your choices regarding a gearbox. I guess a few pictures during the build might help with further advice? I have no experience of 52F frames.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

Thanks Richard,

 

No problem at all, I'm leaning towards the general guidance to a 52F chassis, likely ordering it today, it seems a nice solution that ties all of the components needed to one place (which is how I would, personally, prefer kits, but I believe the kit industry has evolved based on how the large majority customers prefer to work). 

 

Thanks, Paul. 

[Paul_sterling]

Morning all, 

 

As is typical of me, I'm trying something different. I've sourced a second hand Bachmann SECR C-class to trial as a donor chassis for the J21, said chassis have been used by others for similar small 0-6-0 tender locos (such as L&Y A class), so I'm hoping to do similar here. It also has the same wheelbase as the J21, and wheels just half an inch bigger. 

 

The current plan is to assess if the Nu-cast can feasibly be modified/grafted to fit around the chassis (subject to chassis mods if needed, but I like to avoid them where possible so that the chassis can be returned to the original loco if the project is a failure), if not, second plan is to do as I have done with my previous locos, CAD and 3D print a J21 shell to fit the chassis. 

 

If this is infeasible of course, I'll sell the C class, and revert to the 52F route. I backed out due to the mounting costs of the 52F chassis in the lead up to Christmas (some of the info on the page was a little confusing in respect of prices, and whether motor was/was not in on some of the prices), and as it was, my plan to have free time over Christmas was ruined, the Monday before Christmas our yard was broken into, and a lot of damage to the buildings, so Christmas was spent repairing where possible. 

 

Thanks, Paul.