Hornby 2021 - Playtrains starter range

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, BokStein said:

Given that when a certain S.K. came back into the fold, the Junior range disappeared without trace as he had seen Marklin's myWorld at the Warley show, future developments will be interesting.

 

Ideas for this were brewing long before then...

[woodenhead]

Personally I am not sure we are the right people to be telling Hornby what a childrens trainset should look like.

 

It will come with all the biases, cliches and generally it must look and run like a train requirements, probably looking like real trains with real sounds etc.

 

We're all older train freaks not young children unencumbered by life and conditioning.

 

Hornby will have used the right marketing and development to create a range that they believe will be attractive to the general public not to people who like trains.

[boxbrownie]

43 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Does that suggest they weren’t as commercially successful as hoped?

I think the biggest problem with the playmobil trains were they took up an awful lot of floor space, compared with Lego and others the area they required for even a small oval was probably twice as big, great in the garden or patio but.......

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, BokStein said:

Needless to say that Marklin already have adaptor track (their plastic track is simply their existing C Track but fully molded in plastic; even the central studs are included!) and adaptor wagons with an NEM socket so that their myWorld wagons can run happily on Dad's layout.

 

When they first came out, they actually came with regular Marklin track.

 

I presume it wasn't worthwhile tooling up for special track until they saw how the range sold. But it was a bit odd given how cheap the sets were and how expensive Marklin track is. It did mean that expanding the track beyond what came with the set was rather pricey.

 

If I remember correctly, My World started with a somewhat smaller range than Hornby are starting with. Then again I suppose Marklin have already blazed the trail.

[BokStein]

-

Edited January 17, 2021 by BokStein

[eldomtom2]

58 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Does that suggest they weren’t as commercially successful as hoped?

I know that people from Lego have said that trains are some of the least profitable aspects of their range, hence why their actual train set offerings are restricted to two sets that get updated with new designs every few years.

[Tiptonian]

Please excuse me if I've missed it, but is this system infra-red? If so, it will be interesting to see (way into the future) if Hornby take the control system further and develop it for higher age groups.

 

A few years back, I started to build an 0 gauge industrial shunting layout. Instead of using track power, I used on-board PP3 batteries and the Lego Power Functions infra red control system. Applied to railways, it worked like the most basic DCC system. 8 trains could run at the same time, but unlike DCC, as the controller was a twin unit, two locos could be controlled at the same time. There were 7 forward and 7 reverse speed steps, perfectly adequate for a shunting plank. Furthermore, the controller and receivers were very inexpensive.

 

I do not recall serious modellers taking any notice of it at the time; I think people felt doubt about using infra red or that 7 speed steps was not enough. I thought it was absolutely brilliant!

 

Maybe its day has finally come!

Edited January 16, 2021 by Tiptonian

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, BokStein said:

 

So Junior is launched AFTER myWorld, and after S.K. has seen said product, it is pulled. Then Playtrain is launched, bearing more than a passing resemblance to myWorld with its simple box shapes, magnetic couplings, remote control et alia.

 

Sir, respectfully, I beg to disagree!

 

I bow to your greater knowledge. It's not like I've ever talked to anyone involved in Birmingham a few years ago. 

 

And Junior was launched when SK was away from Hornby. 

 

But, as you say. You know best. 

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I think the biggest problem with the playmobil trains were they took up an awful lot of floor space, compared with Lego and others the area they required for even a small oval was probably twice as big, great in the garden or patio but.......

 

The Playmobil oval will fit in a small sitting room, but it's tight and you won't get much else in. 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Personally I am not sure we are the right people to be telling Hornby what a childrens trainset should look like.

 

It will come with all the biases, cliches and generally it must look and run like a train requirements, probably looking like real trains with real sounds etc.

 

We're all older train freaks not young children unencumbered by life and conditioning.

 

Hornby will have used the right marketing and development to create a range that they believe will be attractive to the general public not to people who like trains.

 

But, who buys the toys when they are that age?

 

It's the parents, grandparents, uncles, aunties, etc. I'm afraid it's those you've got to appeal to, not just the little 'uns.

 

If Grandad Bob doesn't think it's worth buying then he won't buy it. 

 

 

Jason

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

If Grandad Bob doesn't think it's worth buying then he won't buy it. 

 

Grandad Bob is probably thinking, "I wonder if I could fit that control mechanism in a Class 37..."

[railroadbill]

7 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

A bigger problem with Playmobil trains is they stopped making them years ago, and the garden railway fraternity have been hoovering up examples since then on the second hand market.

 

You will find an LGB starter set is often cheaper new, and offers plenty of play value. Add in a couple of their flat wagons with Lego compatible tops, and you have my childhood dream train set. 

I'm not going to be able to start hoovering  up Playmobile chassis then...

 

What I did was to accumulate some second hand LGB via ebay,  got enough track for a reasonable sized oval, an 0-4-0 tank loco and a couple of open wagons.  Actually Phil, you gave me some useful advice on a garden railway thread about controllers, and I bought a suitable new one from a dealer in Germany.  I was then set up with what is a basic train set that can be quickly set up and dismantled on the lawn. It would have been easier to have bought a basic set with all the bits in one box though.... but it's the thrill of the buying chase.  The various bundles of track I brought were all boxed so store away well in the garage.

I wanted the original spec LGB which is nice and simple dc only,  new LGB having gone and come back again now seems to have some more electronics on it.

Grandchildren thought it was great, and they were able to control/play with the train themselves.

I saw a large LGB outdoors layout at a railway museum once, which was running perfectly ok  in very heavy rain.  Very impressive, it seems pretty waterproof  for outdoors (and grandchild proof).

 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The Playmobil oval will fit in a small sitting room, but it's tight and you won't get much else in. 

We used to have the LGB Stainz on a circle of track running around the tree every Christmas......lovely stuff with a few open wagons carrying teddy bears, toys and of course....Father what’s his name.

 

But if it snowed then it was out in the garden with the Mallet and snow plough to clear the track alone the flower beds, even more fun.

[boxbrownie]

43 minutes ago, railroadbill said:

I'm not going to be able to start hoovering  up Playmobile chassis then...

What I did was to accumulate some second hand LGB via ebay,

 

LGB chassis is the better of course as the playmobil chassis did not have the standard LGB slider pick-ups between the wheels, but back in the day they were a fraction of the cost of the LGB chassis.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

It's the parents, grandparents, uncles, aunties, etc. I'm afraid it's those you've got to appeal to, not just the little 'uns.

 

But will they be making the decision based on the same factors that a railway enthusiast would?

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

But will they be making the decision based on the same factors that a railway enthusiast would?

 

Depends if they are railway enthusiasts...

 

But I know a lot about shopping habits and have plenty of kids in my extended family that aren't into railways. People want something that will last for a while and keep the kids quiet. Value for money and longevity are very important for toys.

 

Is the kid just going to play with it for a little while and then never play with it again? Those children don't half grow out of Peppa Pig quickly. But when they do play with them, they play with them constantly. 

 

As an example the Peppa Pig Camper Van. Just a few bits of plastic, but my niece played with it all the time.

 

£30? Bargain if you consider how much use it got. That's the type of toy you are competing with.

 

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7459609?istCompanyId=a74d8886-5df9-4baa-b776-166b3bf9111c&istFeedId=30f62ea9-9626-4cac-97c8-9ff3921f8558&istItemId=ixxwitaww&istBid=t&&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157|acid:629-618-1342|cid:9563523558|agid:102231004750|tid:aud-641224040817:pla-891339151103|crid:423314718152|nw:g|rnd:14429130862351582012|dvc:c|adp:|mt:|loc:9075129&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=9563523558&utm_term=7459609&utm_content=shopping&utm_custom1=102231004750&utm_custom2=629-618-1342&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsb7T9ZSh7gIVkIBQBh3xPgPUEAQYASABEgJTNvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Mike Storey]

4 hours ago, Tiptonian said:

Please excuse me if I've missed it, but is this system infra-red? If so, it will be interesting to see (way into the future) if Hornby take the control system further and develop it for higher age groups.

 

A few years back, I started to build an 0 gauge industrial shunting layout. Instead of using track power, I used on-board PP3 batteries and the Lego Power Functions infra red control system. Applied to railways, it worked like the most basic DCC system. 8 trains could run at the same time, but unlike DCC, as the controller was a twin unit, two locos could be controlled at the same time. There were 7 forward and 7 reverse speed steps, perfectly adequate for a shunting plank. Furthermore, the controller and receivers were very inexpensive.

 

I do not recall serious modellers taking any notice of it at the time; I think people felt doubt about using infra red or that 7 speed steps was not enough. I thought it was absolutely brilliant!

 

Maybe its day has finally come!

 

Bachmann have invested heavily in Infra-Red control via its Dynamis/Ultima system. I bought one of the early ones and was not that impressed - there were a lot of dead spots, even on a relatively simple layout, which required moving nearer to the loco concerned, and I have seen many, similar complaints over the years. I moved on to track control, to give me reliability.

 

For sure, it is the simplest remote control system to introduce at an early age, but let's not get too excited about  a reasonably old technology.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

2 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Bachmann have invested heavily in Infra-Red control via its Dynamis/Ultima system. I bought one of the early ones and was not that impressed - there were a lot of dead spots, even on a relatively simple layout, which required moving nearer to the loco concerned, and I have seen many, similar complaints over the years. I moved on to track control, to give me reliability.

 

For sure, it is the simplest remote control system to introduce at an early age, but let's not get too excited about  a reasonably old technology.

 

I thought that the Bachmann Dynamis DCC infra red controllers connected to a base station, which was connected to the track.

 

So shouldn’t the line of sight be with the base station receiver rather than the locomotive?

 

Or has there been a development, and Dynamis now connects directly to the locomotive?

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

That's the type of toy you are competing with.

 

At any international toy fair, you'll find a million different items in an exhibition hall - all vying for the parental pound. All have their niche, including Playtrains. As a kid, I wouldn't have been into Peppe, but I'd love a plastic train set so for me it would have been fine. Are there enough little Phil's out there? Hornby have presumably done the research to prove there are. A horrible thought...

 

[No Decorum]

11 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I thought that the Bachmann Dynamis DCC infra red controllers connected to a base station, which was connected to the track.

 

So shouldn’t the line of sight be with the base station receiver rather than the locomotive?

 

Or has there been a development, and Dynamis now connects directly to the locomotive?

Absolutely right. The trouble was that if I lost connection or a loco stalled for whatever reason, my instinct was to point the controller at the loco, not the base station. It took ages to train myself out of that. It was a nice system but I had to change when I had filled my second controller to its capacity of forty locos.

[009 micro modeller]

12 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I thought that the Bachmann Dynamis DCC infra red controllers connected to a base station, which was connected to the track.

 

But wouldn’t that make it more of a wireless controller, rather than a remote control system? Especially since track power is used.

[Mike Storey]

15 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I thought that the Bachmann Dynamis DCC infra red controllers connected to a base station, which was connected to the track.

 

So shouldn’t the line of sight be with the base station receiver rather than the locomotive?

 

Or has there been a development, and Dynamis now connects directly to the locomotive?

 

Quite true!! But the same applied. If you moved off to deal with something, it could often take an age to get back to a line of sight with the controller. You could only improve upon this by purchasing, not inexpensive extra kit.

 

So having to keep line of sight with a loco, except with the simplest and smallest of layouts (which is fine in the case of Playtrains I would guess) would be doubly difficult. My comment really referred to an earlier post suggesting that this technology had not been extended enough to on board control!!

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Quite true!! But the same applied. If you moved off to deal with something, it could often take an age to get back to a line of sight with the controller. You could only improve upon this by purchasing, not inexpensive extra kit.

 

So having to keep line of sight with a loco, except with the simplest and smallest of layouts (which is fine in the case of Playtrains I would guess) would be doubly difficult. My comment really referred to an earlier post suggesting that this technology had not been extended enough to on board control!!

 

There are some fairly cheap remote control toy cars, not all of which seem to require line of sight, so could this technology be applied? In theory, trains could be easier as they don’t have to have steering.

[Tiptonian]

7 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

There are some fairly cheap remote control toy cars, not all of which seem to require line of sight, so could this technology be applied? In theory, trains could be easier as they don’t have to have steering.

 

I think it is all down to the quality and power of the hardware. In theory, IR remote control does require line of sight, but my television remote control seems to be able to bounce the signal off the walls; it will operate from anywhere in the lounge pointing in almost any direction, whereas my (cheap) freesat receiver remote has to be pointed directly at the receiver itself or it will not work.

@Mike Storey I would envisage any more refined IR system being basically for toys for girls and boys age 5 to 130 and older (!), or adapted to small home layouts for people who like the simplicity. The Ultima is complex, but not all that expensive as DCC goes, so maybe the remote side is where money was saved. Perhaps the remote side should have been Bluetooth, assuming a high-enough spec Bluetooth was available at that time.   As it is, it shows the biggest weakness of IR without the biggest advantage, which is the simplicity, low cost and the potential for on-board power.

@No Decorum I can certainly understand the instinct to point the remote controller at the loco instead of the base unit!

 

 

[Mike Storey]

On 17/01/2021 at 16:42, 009 micro modeller said:

 

There are some fairly cheap remote control toy cars, not all of which seem to require line of sight, so could this technology be applied? In theory, trains could be easier as they don’t have to have steering.

 

Maybe - I am not that acquainted with the different technologies as applied to cars/trucks etc. But I believe they rely largely on radio control rather than IR? That is what I use for my garden live steam and diesel locos, but then they are to 1:19 scale. The bulk of the vehicles allows the insertion of such controls along with the servos etc to make it work.

 

A couple of firms (one of them British - ProtoCab) have been "experimenting" with radio control in largely 0 gauge locos, but with some, very expensive and very complex insertions into 00 gauge stock. The problem remains the space available, as all of these conversions require some element of the motor block and other weights provided for adhesion, to be removed, or at least severely shaved. This has been in development for many years now, and has its enthusiasts, but it is still not capable of reproducing all that you can do with DCC. I do not think we are there yet, but perhaps one day, with nano-tech and all that.

 

The key issue surrounds what is economically viable today, or in the short term. Many of us will not live long enough to see the eureka moment, and will stick with what we know for our remaining years on this planet. Unfortunately, that attitude may well pass down to the grand kiddies, if Grand daddy or mummy is funding it!!