Hornby 2021 - Steam locomotive range

[adb968008]

46 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

13 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Only ten of them though, and spread over that huge area, your chances of seeing one unless you knew the diagrams they worked or were spotting all day, weren't huge.

 

John

 

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

A bit like waiting to see a Princess then? Only 12 of those.

 

Or a Deltic, A4, MN, King, etc. All hardly built in their hundreds.

 

 

Jason

 

You dont know how lucky you had it.

 

Try chasing Mainline steam around London today !

2 railtours in 11 months, 34046 both times, 2 days apart.

 

 

[G-BOAF]

Terrier 32646 in British Railways Sunshine lettering with cream numbers - is this correct?

 

This loco is W8 Freshwater, and according to online soruces the loco didn't arrive back on the mainland until 1949

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/32646-lbscr-46-newington-lbscr-646-iow-w2-iow-w8-freshwater-br-32646/

 

BR Database has its first mainland allocation as Fratton in June 49

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=306001906&loco=32646

 

Surely by this point it would have had the Early Crest applied rather than sunshine lettering with BR numerals. Or was June 49 pre early crest?

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

You dont know how lucky you had it.

 

Try chasing Mainline steam around London today !

2 railtours in 11 months, 34046 both times, 2 days apart.

 

 

 

I had it?

 

I wasn't around when steam was about....

[Dunsignalling]

16 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Terrier 32646 in British Railways Sunshine lettering with cream numbers - is this correct?

 

This loco is W8 Freshwater, and according to online soruces the loco didn't arrive back on the mainland until 1949

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/32646-lbscr-46-newington-lbscr-646-iow-w2-iow-w8-freshwater-br-32646/

 

BR Database has its first mainland allocation as Fratton in June 49

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=306001906&loco=32646

 

Surely by this point it would have had the Early Crest applied rather than sunshine lettering with BR numerals. Or was June 49 pre early crest?

 

 

 

The early BR emblem came into use during 1949, so it could be a matter of timing.

 

However, supplies of the new transfers were not plentiful and tended to be applied preferentially to locomotives of higher public profile, which wouldn't include Terriers!

 

Hornby are most likely correct with this one.

 

John

Edited January 6, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Karl]

6 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Terrier 32646 in British Railways Sunshine lettering with cream numbers - is this correct?

 

This loco is W8 Freshwater, and according to online soruces the loco didn't arrive back on the mainland until 1949

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/32646-lbscr-46-newington-lbscr-646-iow-w2-iow-w8-freshwater-br-32646/

 

BR Database has its first mainland allocation as Fratton in June 49

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=306001906&loco=32646

 

Surely by this point it would have had the Early Crest applied rather than sunshine lettering with BR numerals. Or was June 49 pre early crest?

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The early BR emblem came into use during 1949, so it could be a matter of timing.

 

However, supplies of the new transfers were not plentiful and tended to be applied preferentially to locomotives of higher public profile, which wouldn't include Terriers!

 

Hornby are most likely correct with this one.

 

John

 

The British Railways lettering was applied to Freshwater on the isle of Wight high up the tanks to have the nameplate below, it carried 8 on the bunker. Upon returning to the mainland the 8 was replaced with the BR number. I have a book here (The Island Terriers by Reed) with a photo of the engine as liveried by Hornby taken at Eastleigh on 19th August 1949, with a comment it did not received lined livery for sometime.

 

It is down as having returned to Brighton in Dec 1951 for repairs and a boiler change. That would seem a logical time for it to have been repainted but that's just a guess.

 

Happily I wanted the Isle of Wight variant of this livery which will be an easy change to do!

Edited January 7, 2021 by Karl

[Mallard60022]

19 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

A bit like waiting to see a Princess then? Only 12 of those.

Or a Deltic, A4, MN, King, etc. All hardly built in their hundreds.

Jason

Yes; however almost (Scottish A4s rarely) all of those loco's you mentioned worked to and from London and were regular, even in some cases, appearing several times a day. Clans' Shed Masters were perceptive, working them in a restricted Bubble so as to not contaminate the rest of the railway, except in dire emergency.

Phil

[Helmdon]

6 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes; however almost (Scottish A4s rarely) all of those loco's you mentioned worked to and from London and were regular, even in some cases, appearing several times a day. Clans' Shed Masters were perceptive, working them in a restricted Bubble so as to not contaminate the rest of the railway, except in dire emergency.

Phil

Very much looking forward to one running on the GC extension in my house soon...

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes; however almost (Scottish A4s rarely) all of those loco's you mentioned worked to and from London and were regular, even in some cases, appearing several times a day. Clans' Shed Masters were perceptive, working them in a restricted Bubble so as to not contaminate the rest of the railway, except in dire emergency.

Phil

We used to see 35025 "Brocklebank Line" so often that one of my pals reckoned there had to be two of them.

 

John

[Les1952]

Although brought up in Darlington the Clans were the only standard class I saw all of (until copping Duke of Gloucester in Barry scrapyard).

 

The first five all on Darlington dead line and the other five all on shed when the school Railway Society visited Kingmoor in 1964 .

 

I might actually get one- it won't get run on NO PLACE as the headshunt was deliberately made short to dissuade me from buying A3s....

 

Les

 

[Great Eastern Lady]

As much as I admire the new 2021 range of steam locomotives, they’re all big main line engines, there is nothing small or medium 

I know I’ve mentioned F5, F6 and E4s a few times , mainly because they’re what I’m after, but they are also small , likewise with J17, J69 .

Now I’m no expert on locomotive classes but I’m sure there are many that modellers would like to see like 16xx , the three cylinder Stainiers they used on the LTSR and many more 

I’m not having a go at Hornby , just an opinion 

[adb968008]

On 07/01/2021 at 20:16, Dunsignalling said:

We used to see 35025 "Brocklebank Line" so often that one of my pals reckoned there had to be two of them.

 

John

railways dont change.

 

Some people say there are multiple 47555.

I see 59206 far more than average (it seems to live for 1 of 3 routes).

 

of course if you goto Stourbridge Town..... 

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Great Eastern Lady said:

As much as I admire the new 2021 range of steam locomotives, they’re all big main line engines, there is nothing small or medium 

I know I’ve mentioned F5, F6 and E4s a few times , mainly because they’re what I’m after, but they are also small , likewise with J17, J69 .

Now I’m no expert on locomotive classes but I’m sure there are many that modellers would like to see like 16xx , the three cylinder Stainiers they used on the LTSR and many more 

I’m not having a go at Hornby , just an opinion 

 

Arriving at Felixstowe soon....

 

 

[Great Eastern Lady]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Arriving at Felixstowe soon....

 

 

I found the 16xx ,looks  like they’re doing the 15xx as well , just glad I didn’t mention them lol 

[MattA]

12 hours ago, Great Eastern Lady said:

As much as I admire the new 2021 range of steam locomotives, they’re all big main line engines, there is nothing small or medium 

I know I’ve mentioned F5, F6 and E4s a few times , mainly because they’re what I’m after, but they are also small , likewise with J17, J69 .

Now I’m no expert on locomotive classes but I’m sure there are many that modellers would like to see like 16xx , the three cylinder Stainiers they used on the LTSR and many more 

I’m not having a go at Hornby , just an opinion 

As you say, not everyone models an Eastern Region main line!

 

I model preservation era - the occasional big guest engine is fine but the core of my fleet has to be made up of smaller locomotives. Admittedly Hornby has served me well in previous years with things like Terriers and Large Prairies, but the majority of my fleet is still Bachmann as they produce more locomotives of the sort of size that I need.

 

[w124bob]

On 05/01/2021 at 11:00, Otis JB said:

Allegedly this range is bigger than last years but it feels about half the size. Has anyone else noticed this?

What, you mean it's N gauge.

[Les1952]

On 09/01/2021 at 11:56, MattA said:

As you say, not everyone models an Eastern Region main line!

 

 

 

And why not?

 

Seriously a large proportion of the NER's branch lines were Route Availability 9 and could take Pacifics and even twigs like the Catterick Bridge to Catterick Camp had regular V2 hauled trains.

 

I've not yet found why Pacifics didn't work to Catterick Camp- it may be the length of the tender-first run from Darlington to Catterick Bridge that was involved, or it may have been the curves on the branch being a bit sharp for the big tenders or the headshunt at the top may only have been big enough for a V2. 

 

Les

Edited January 10, 2021 by Les1952
typos...

[The Stationmaster]

On 06/01/2021 at 16:50, Dunsignalling said:

Only ten of them though, and spread over that huge area, your chances of seeing one unless you knew the diagrams they worked or were spotting all day, weren't huge.

 

John

Very much so.  Having spent a bit of time around the railways in the north west on odd occasions during the steam age I only saw three of the 'Clans' - compared with 51 of the 55 'Brits' - which suggests to me that the 'Brits were definitely a lot more widespread.

 

On a more general point the total listed steam outline range for 2021 gives something for almost everyone (I'm excluding Train Packs, Railroad, and 'Hornby dublo' from this count).  NB I have not differentiated between DCC Ready and DCC Fitted but have just totalled each model in the 2021 catalogue.  The classes are listed in the order in which they appear in the catalogue -

2 ex L&Y Pugs

6 x 4 coupled Pecketts,

4 x 6 coupled Pecketts (2 new livery for 2021)

7 x Terriers (3 new livery for 2021 )

2 x J50

4 x SR Class H

2 x Radials

2 x 42XX

6 x 61XX (2 new livery for 2021)

5 x J15

2 x J36

1 x D16/3

1 x T9

1 x Schools

2 x Q6

5 x 78XXX  (2020 model plus 2 new liveries for 2021)

2 x K1

2 x O1

1 x 8F

2 x P2. (new model for 2021)

3 x 9F  (new model for 2021)

2 x S15

4 x 'Lord Nelson'

3 x 'King'

1 x 'Grange'

3 x B17 (one each of /2, /4, & /6 variants)

1 x 'Castle'

3 x B12

1 x 'Star'

1 x 'King Arthur'

2 x 75XXX Standard

1 x Black five

2 x Rebuilt 'Patriot'

2 x Rebuilt 'Royal Scot'

1 x Rebuilt 'Merchant Navy'

4 x original 'Merchant Navy' (at least one of which is, I think, an overdue 2019 model. (includes one new livery for 2021)

2 x Clan (new/reissued model for 2021)

1 x  original 'Battle of Britain' (new livery for 2021)

4 x streamlined 'Princess Coronation'

2 x 'Princess Coronation'

5 x 'Princess' (2 new livery for 2021)

1 x 'Britannia'

2 x LNER A4

4 x LNER A1/A3 (includes 4 definitely new tooling for 2021, one believed to be an earlier issue with th current latest tooling)

3 x LNER Thompson A2/2 (2020 model) 

5 x Thompson A2/3  (2020 model, includes one new livery for 2021)

1 X LNER W1 original condition (2020 model but new variant for 2021)

2 x LNER W1 rebuilt condition (2020 model new livery for 2021)

 

Total 124 steam outline locos in the main range in the 2021 catalogue.  This is to my mind an incredible number by any measure you care to apply and perhaps far too many for the vast majority of retailers to stock one of each let alone multiples of some but not so bad for direct sales or the really big retailers. Some of them are noticeably models from several years past which might suggest they did not necessarily sell well originally but are considered worth advertising now in order to reduce stocks - no bads thing as it does help to v create a huge range.

 

By grouped company, and BR Standards, and including  Pre Group liveries in Grouped company totals -

BR Standards - 5 Classes

GWR - 6 Classes

LMS -  8 Classes (counting streamline and non-streamlined 'Princess Coronations' separately)

SR -  11 Classes (counting original and rebuilt Bulleid pacifics separately)

LNER - 15 classes (counting A2/2 and A2/3 and the two W1 versions separately but the B17s as ne class

 

 

 

[atom3624]

I don't know if it's a LNER bias as such, or just that SNG and successors just created more interesting large locomotives ... perhaps.

 

I'm a Stanier fan, like LNER, respect GWR without finding them stunningly fascinating and interesting, and genuinely admire Bulleid's work ... just about covers most of it!!

 

I like trains!

 

Al.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

I don't know if it's a LNER bias as such, or just that SNG and successors just created more interesting large locomotives ... perhaps.

 

(snipped

Al.

Although the interesting thing about the LNER locos in that list is that only 7 categories out of the 15 have more than ten wheels (i.e. only 7 are bigger than a 4-6-0 or 2-8-0).

[adb968008]

31 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Although the interesting thing about the LNER locos in that list is that only 7 categories out of the 15 have more than ten wheels (i.e. only 7 are bigger than a 4-6-0 or 2-8-0).

An excellant summary there.

 

however the sad part is of all that lot, the only thing truly new to the market is these two classes / variants..

 

3 x LNER Thompson A2/2 (2020 model) 

5 x Thompson A2/3  (2020 model, includes one new livery for 2021)

1 X LNER W1 original condition (2020 model but new variant for 2021)

2 x LNER W1 rebuilt condition (2020 model new livery for 2021)

 

Everything else is a re-run or a duplication.

 

I think its a healthy range for the accountant, and for a shop to be able to “order on demand” from. 
 

So much re-run / duplication begs the question who is the customer ?

 

much of the hobbies buyers are really fashion accessory purchases.. buy one be because its unique / new, buy two cos its a different colour, buy 3 because its my era/geography... Then full, I dont need any more.

 

very few modellers buy a new Pug every year for 20 years and throw the old one away.

 

How many people are planning on buying  78000 and 78006 and 78010 and 78047 and 78054.. oh an hints there might be a 78022 as well.

 

How many people are buying 6xW1’s ?

 10000 in Grey and fake named in Grey, and double chimney grey and Green and lner works grey and BR green 1950s and BR Green 1960’s ?..

 

its like a Wickes catalog... can I have a W1 in VTEC livery please ?

 

Imagine going to a restaurant and being given a menu like that list ?

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

Hornby, LNER? Hopefully it's just a phase they are going through. 

 

Mind you after the present programme, and (no doubt) another go at the A4 fairly soon, there won't be much big stuff left. Then they'll just have variations left to tackle unless they go for items already available elsewhere.

 

John 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Great Eastern Lady]

@Dunsignalling It wasn’t so long ago almost everything was either GWR or LMS , and Southern and LNER were the poor relations with very few models coming out 

 

Even now if you do a google search for GER , it comes up with ‘ are you sure you don’t mean GWR 

 

[Dunsignalling]

33 minutes ago, Great Eastern Lady said:

@Dunsignalling It wasn’t so long ago almost everything was either GWR or LMS , and Southern and LNER were the poor relations with very few models coming out 

 

Even now if you do a google search for GER , it comes up with ‘ are you sure you don’t mean GWR 

 

I agree, but I just wish Hornby wouldn't go so hard in one direction at a time. For me it always seems to be feast or famine.

 

When they were going bananas on Southern, I couldn't always keep up. I  only caught up with the final King Arthur I wanted last year! Last year and this, it's all LNER and no locos (for me) to buy. No doubt the position was reversed when they were concentrating on Bulleids, Arthurs, Schools and T9s, but that doesn't make it any easier.   

 

Even with the Southern stuff they are doing this year, they've made some odd choices. Why on earth did they decide to do Winston Churchill in BR green for a third time, fourth if you include the original Tri-ang one?   I can understand why all the air-smoothed MNs are in (at best) early-fifties trim; they need no changes or additions to the tooling. However, I can't  be the only one who wants some in final condition, just before rebuilding so they look right alongside Rebuilts. I'll be giving all the current crop a miss. Maybe next year?

 

2021 is going to be, for me, The Year of the Coach, with some very welcome gap-filling in both red and blue boxes. At least the lack of new locos will mean not having to restrain myself on that front!

 

John

Edited January 12, 2021 by Dunsignalling

['CHARD]

On 06/01/2021 at 01:03, RyanN91 said:

 surly I am not the only who perfumed an air fist pump with (or something like this) 

 

I expect you were alone in perfuming a pump, yes.

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

An excellant summary there.

 

however the sad part is of all that lot, the only thing truly new to the market is these two classes / variants..

 

3 x LNER Thompson A2/2 (2020 model) 

5 x Thompson A2/3  (2020 model, includes one new livery for 2021)

1 X LNER W1 original condition (2020 model but new variant for 2021)

2 x LNER W1 rebuilt condition (2020 model new livery for 2021)

 

Everything else is a re-run or a duplication.

 

I think its a healthy range for the accountant, and for a shop to be able to “order on demand” from. 
 

So much re-run / duplication begs the question who is the customer ?

 

much of the hobbies buyers are really fashion accessory purchases.. buy one be because its unique / new, buy two cos its a different colour, buy 3 because its my era/geography... Then full, I dont need any more.

 

very few modellers buy a new Pug every year for 20 years and throw the old one away.

 

How many people are planning on buying  78000 and 78006 and 78010 and 78047 and 78054.. oh an hints there might be a 78022 as well.

 

How many people are buying 6xW1’s ?

 10000 in Grey and fake named in Grey, and double chimney grey and Green and lner works grey and BR green 1950s and BR Green 1960’s ?..

 

its like a Wickes catalog... can I have a W1 in VTEC livery please ?

 

Imagine going to a restaurant and being given a menu like that list ?

 

I think that the only reason the list is so big is that they have leftovers from various earlier releases, particularly of Year 2 models in some cases, which really does make it 'a healthy range for the accountant'.  But as I've said it also makes it look like a huge range for the end customer with bags of choice - until you look close at some railways where the range is far from balanced although that probably won't bother the 'trainset' type of customer.  

 

Many RMweb modellers will look at the range through very different eyes for example there are two Western items which might be of some interest to me - and in 2021 one of them may well be purchased.  As far as the Standards are concerned there is one there which might go on my 2021 shopping list but I am only going to buy one 78XXX (if any at all) so the fact that there will be 5 makes no difference to me provided one of them suits what I might want.  As far as the LM models are concerned there are none in the 2021 catalogue which interest me at all although i am in the market for relevant LM outline models - the importnat word being 'relevant' (to my geographical interest).

 

Where the imbalance can come of course can be in the way in which new subjects are added  (even including updatings and re-runs) which as several people have already noted tends to result in a sort of 'feast or famine' situation.  Even worse is the thing we often see where Year 2 models are pumped out quickly behind successful Year 1 models and seemingly all too often are pushed into a sated market.  It seems to be an area which Hornby still haven't got right and there are distinct traces of past efforts of this sort in the contents of various part of the 2021 catalogue.  Quite what drives the process isn't really obvious to an outside observer except in its consequences - including what lurks in the annual accounts where some of it (not necessarily quantifiable within the overall situation) shows up in a negative way.   The ending of fire sales was in my view an excellent step in rebuilding retailer relationships but it has had other consequences and it requires much cuter marketing in order to avoid stockpiles of unsold models having to go onto the books and incur warehousing costs.   But maybe having a broad spread in the catalogue might help - it will be interesting to see if it does?