Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[AY Mod]

 

This six wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the North British Railway (NBR) in the late 19th and early 20th century.

 

Small coaches such as this six wheeled coach proved especially good at branch line work where their small size enabled the traversing of tight radius curves, whilst lower passenger numbers meant their small size was more acceptable and enabled trains to be hauled by smaller engines. 

 

This NBR coach is modelled as having step boards to enable access at stations with low platforms and gas lamp lighting. 

 

 

This SR coach is modelled as having step boards to enable access at stations with low platforms and electric lighting.

 

 

This six wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) having been inherited form the Great Northern Railway (GNR).

 

 

This six wheeled coach is a representation of the many small coaches which survived into British Railway ownership.
 

 

This four wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the London and North Western Railway (LNWR) in the late 19th and early 20th century. 
 

 

This four wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway (LB&SCR) in the late 19th and early 20th century. 
 

 

This four wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the London and South Western Railway (LSWR) in the late 19th and early 20th century. 
 

 

This four wheeled coach is a representation of the many which served on the Great Northern Railway (GNR) in the late 19th and early 20th century. 
 

 

This four wheeled coach is a representation of the hundreds which served on the GWR from the Victorian era onwards. 
 

 

LB&SCR No. 43 ‘Gipsyhill’ entered service in June 1877. In 1919 it was rebuilt as an A1X Class locomotive before becoming one of the locomotives sold to the WCPR for £785 in December 1925 where it was renamed Portishead. After the closure of the WCPR the locomotive was sold to GWR in 1940 where it became No. 5. The locomotive remined in service with GWR and later BR until January 1950 before being scrapped in Swindon in March 1954. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil Parker]

We've managed to get our hands on one of the coaches and take a look:

 

 

[AY Mod]

Full range images

 

North British

Great Northern

London & South Western

Great Western

London, Brighton & South Coast Railway

London & North Western

BR(E) Crimson

London & North Eastern

Southern

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

Hmmm

[GreenGiraffe22]

Sooo these one are accurate and not generic? 

[Mike_Walker]

1 minute ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Sooo these one are accurate and not generic? 

All look pretty much the same to me so I'd say generic. Wonder what's being said at a certain retailer right now... ?

[Pre Grouping fan]

2 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Sooo these one are accurate and not generic? 

They look generic to me, the Teak coached with square lining have rounded panelling edges

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Sooo these one are accurate and not generic? 

 

No, they are generic.

[Otis JB]

Eek!

 

Poor Hattons, they really don't deserve this snub IMO.

[JohnR]

8 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Sooo these one are accurate and not generic? 

I cant see much difference between the various liveries.

[GreenGiraffe22]

A friend is telling me they've used Stroudleys as the base model...?

[Skinnylinny]

These do look very Stroudley - the end beading and windows on the guards compartments is a big giveaway. Stroudley-style brake shoes, roof lamp position on the 4-wheel third, Westinghouse brake fittings, panelling layout and lack of bolection mouldings which is a big giveaway. I don't have my LBSCR carriages book here, but I can recognise:

D44 4-wheel third
D45 4-wheel brake third
D43 4-wheel first

Straight off the bat. The grab rails, however, have been changed from the very distinctive tall LBSC ones, presumably in an attempt to appear more generic.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Skinnylinny

[Pmorgancym]

Be nice if the had a suitable small tank engine to go with each livery.  The GW terrier and GWR coaches is a bit off the wall!

Edited January 5, 2021 by Pmorgancym

[spamcan61]

17 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

Eek!

 

Poor Hattons, they really don't deserve this snub IMO.

Indeed it's difficult to see these as a positive development for the hobby.

[woodenhead]

I was thinking some more on this, and actually given Hornby's place in the market it does need a range of 4 wheel coaches to replace the previous ones and they do look like improvements on what went before.

 

It gives people a choice and there will be those that demand accuracy and will kit build, there will be those that will support Hattons and there will be those who would only every buy from Hornby.  And a bit of mix and match would be good too - have your cake and eat it.

[Otis JB]

6 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I think the market is probably big enough for both

 

Maybe but it would be nice to not see two versions of every major model! 

[spamcan61]

Just now, woodenhead said:

 

 

It gives people a choice and there will be those that demand accuracy and will kit build, there will be those that will support Hattons and there will be those who would only every buy from Hornby.  And a bit of mix and match would be good too - have your cake and eat it.

That really only works if there's enough demand out there for two manufacturers to profitably supply the ranges though, which I frankly doubt.

[MattA]

Hornby do seem to have a habit of coming up with new toolings that clash with another manufacturer's...

[MikeParkin65]

4 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Indeed it's difficult to see these as a positive development for the hobby.

Both in terms of duplication and not of any specific prototype. In fact is a model of something that doesnt exist a model at all?

[Bluebell Model Railway]

14 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

A friend is telling me they've used Stroudleys as the base model...?

It does look that way. The ducker brake end look very Stroudley. 

 

Also interesting in the video Simon says they have been working on this for 2/3 years so pre dates Hattons announcement  by a year possibly 2.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Bluebell Model Railway

[Calidore]

I think Hornby's interest here must be strategic rather than anything else. Coming in a red box, there will be huge demand for these as expansions to train sets / as a perfect 'bridge' between simple starter products and the high-fidelity expensive stuff. They're small, easy to buy one or two of at a time, look attractive and will doubtless sell in all sorts of colourful mix-and-match combinations to that sector of the market, and they're realistically priced at £29 rather than £49 for a main range 'big' coach.

 

The motivation here is very different to that from Hattons, I think, though Hornby will gladly hoover up a good proportion of the market Hattons were aiming at as well.

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

That really only works if there's enough demand out there for two manufacturers to profitably supply the ranges though, which I frankly doubt.

 

On the one hand the vast number of liveries available from pre grouping companies means having two competing manufacturers is less damaging than it might appear for Big 4 or BR products.

 

Against that they are generic and that will be a turn off for some - particularly if they are reliant on kit built locos to haul them about.

 

As others have said though, having a set of proper 4 / 6 wheeled coaches (not just one 3 compartment ex SDJR first on a brake van chassis) is an advantage for Hornby as it facilitates the sales of small tank engines like the Terriers.

 

[Compound2632]

I would say that at first sight they lack some of the finesse of the Hattons carriages but I would wouldn't I? But in terms of price, they're on a par, so surely they complement rather than usurp the Genesis range. What I find particularly frustrating is that they've fallen into the same trap of going for a centre-lavatory composite rather than the much more widespread and useful centre-luggage composite.

 

They could have gone for some differences such as tumblehome ends. The duckets look like they've been copied from a photograph of a late survivor that had had its panelling replaced with steel sheeting - a bit feeble.

 

I can't help feeling that this is a missed opportunity to do something a bit different.

 

LNWR and GNR livery are as inappropriate on these body-styles as on the Hattons carriages! 

 

Vital statistics?

Length over end panels =

Width over side panels =

Wheelbase =

Edited January 5, 2021 by Compound2632

[GreenGiraffe22]

I certainly won't be complaining if they are based on Stroudley prototypes, that works very well for me! 

[eldomtom2]

19 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I was thinking some more on this, and actually given Hornby's place in the market it does need a range of 4 wheel coaches to replace the previous ones and they do look like improvements on what went before.

 

It gives people a choice and there will be those that demand accuracy and will kit build, there will be those that will support Hattons and there will be those who would only every buy from Hornby.  And a bit of mix and match would be good too - have your cake and eat it.

No way these are replacing the old four wheel coaches - they're far too detailed for that.

7 minutes ago, Calidore said:

I think Hornby's interest here must be strategic rather than anything else. Coming in a red box, there will be huge demand for these as expansions to train sets / as a perfect 'bridge' between simple starter products and the high-fidelity expensive stuff. They're small, easy to buy one or two of at a time, look attractive and will doubtless sell in all sorts of colourful mix-and-match combinations to that sector of the market, and they're realistically priced at £29 rather than £49 for a main range 'big' coach.

 

The motivation here is very different to that from Hattons, I think, though Hornby will gladly hoover up a good proportion of the market Hattons were aiming at as well.

And Hattons are also selling their coaches for £30!