Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Ordering some more from Hatton's. Hope Hornby get their fingers burnt with these.

 

John

I will certainly NOT be cancelling my pre order from Hattons.......much as I respect Hornby as a manufacturer this type of thing is becoming tiresome.

[Mr chapman]

Why does it have to be Hornby playing dirty? If people are screaming for certain models like the adams radial, 71, terrier etc it makes sense that a model railway manufacturer would go OK let's make them. If two listen to the same list it's going to happen. If a shop decide to produce their own models they are going to have to accept this could happen. There are plenty of models like the P class that Hornby have left alone if their strategy is purely domination. It's unfortunate and like I say whoever has the best model should win, but it's the reality of business and everyone building from the same shopping list. 

[adb968008]

Now we’ve got generic detailed coaches, its only a matter of time before we go for generic detailed steam locomotives to pull them.

 

NBR coaches stand out as odd, the only thing to pull them is an NBR goods engine.

 

 

But if all weve got to compete with is two manufacturers making a fake coach, the hobby has run out of ideas.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, Edge said:

 

 

im a Warhammer modeller in another life and I’ve just come off paying £90 for a single figure (damn you import charges) so I can take the rough with the smooth on pricing until I reach a flat ‘nope’

 

Would it be unfair to answer "then you've only yourself to blame!"?

 

The prices of Games Workshop's "plastic crack" show what relatively good value we get in our hobby! 

 

 

[Denbridge]

Having a good idea of the timescales of these things, i rather suspect Hornby started devrlopment of these before the Hattons announcement. I also suspect they were initially going to be 'pure ' Stroudley carriages to go with the terriers, but subsquently have morphed into generic vehicles.

[Pteremy]

Presumably there is also a market for generic 'late victorian' wagons, that, as yet, no one is addressing?

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

Why does it have to be Hornby playing dirty

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck.........

[AY Mod]

12 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

i rather suspect Hornby started devrlopment of these before the Hattons announcement.

 

Despite first-hand information to the contrary being posted in the topic already?

[Edge]

Pre orders now up on Hattons and they certainly appear to be of the opinion that £299 is the price for the terrier train pack. Rules me out for pre-orders but I shall snap it up if I see it in the future.

 

EDIT: Just worked it out using Hattons prices and the RoS GWR Terrier for £110. Even with the step in the price because its the RoS terrier, I cnat make it go past about £210 for all of the constituent bits. For that price, you could top and tail it with the Hattons AB in GWR green and just barely go over the cost of this train pack. How very peculiar.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Edge

[HonestTom]

I do find this whole situation very curious. I want to assume good faith, but it seems so odd that two manufacturers should both release generic pre-Grouping coaches so close together, when the received wisdom has long been that the market would only accept accurate stock. I don't want to get into the tedious debate over accurate versus generic, I think that was exhausted in the Hattons Genesis thread.

 

I guess one advantage of this is that if you want to run trains from more than one company, at least you can mix and match so you don't get the same train twice. Your generic LBSC coaches don't have to be identical to your generic LSWRs or whatever.

 

Personally, I'm thinking I might get the BR Eastern Region coaches because, by an astonishing coincidence, they fit the needs of my planned freelance layout perfectly.

[MarkSG]

So if Hattons are Project Genesis, presumably these are Project Exodus? Intended to lead the faithful out of exile (Liverpool) and into the promised land (Margate) ?

 

On a slightly more serious note, though, I did predict something like this, so I am now happily cashing in my smug badge. I'm just a little disappointed that they haven't re-tooled the venerable clerestories. But these probably will work better as a train set add-on, which I suspect is going to be a significant part of the target market.

 

While this will, to some extent, dilute the market for the Hattons coaches, I do think they can co-exist. Bearing in mind that Hattons, as a Hornby retailer, will have known about these when the trade were given their advance briefing last month, so they've had time to pull any variants that haven't yet gone into production. But they haven't, so presumably they're still confident that both versions will sell.

 

In any case, given that both versions are generic, if you want a bit more variation than just different liveries then mixing and matching from both manufacturers makes sense. If I was modelling this era (which I'm not, at the moment, but I might, at some point) then I'd quite happily buy both.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

One point for the more knowledgeable, did many 4w and 6w coaches last long enough for crimson livery?

 

Oh yes, NER, Midland, GWR to name but the most numerous!

 

10 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck.........

 

... ah but is that a mallard, a shelduck, an Aylesbury duck, a mandarin duck or just some generic duck?

 

3 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Despite first-hand information to the contrary being posted in the topic already?

 

All the evidence is that a large proportion of the human race is impervious to clearly-stated facts.

[atom3624]

I loved the lighting - installation, operation, and access - for replacement batteries.

 

I've coaches with similar set-ups, but they're NOT easily accessed - this one's battery was accessed literally within seconds - nice job!

 

Wonder what would happen using one magnet to activate / deactivate a rake of 4 or 5 coaches, and one or 2 were out of synch!!

 

Al.

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

Presumably there is also a market for generic 'late victorian' wagons, that, as yet, no one is addressing?

 

The Hornby 6, 4, and 3-plank wagons are pretty much there, at least as far as the bodywork goes. Not up to the standard of, say, the Bachmann RCH 1923 mineral wagons, though.

 

But I looked in vain for the announcement of late Victorian passenger engines for the LNWR, NBR, GNR, or even GWR to go with the new carriages.

[Miss Prism]

Dear Hornby

 

I can vouch this is definitely a generic tank engine.
 

[paulontheball]

I'm building stock for a future Isle of Wight layout set in the late 1930s/start of WW2 period and considering what a mish-mash of secondhand, patched up and modified coaching stock they had at the time, I wondered if a set of these or the Hattons units in SR livery would work behind a Terrier or an O2? - any views?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edge said:

I assume that the coaches are the all singing and all dancing lit versions, 

 

That's almost enough to make me think of going DCC - but not quite. 

 

I'm afraid my facetious side is taking over - I need to go and lie down in a quiet corner with my copy of Lacy & Dow...

[Denbridge]

 Hattons announced their Genesis coaches in October 19. Hornby had surviving examples scanned in November 19. That suggests to me that Hornby were already working on these prior to Hattons announcing their range.

Time would need to be booked to have access to full size examples, and i doubt if scanning is the 1st stage of the process.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Dear Hornby

 

I can vouch this is definitely a generic tank engine.
 

 

Nice try...

[57xx]

9 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Dear Hornby

 

I can vouch this is definitely a generic tank engine.
 

 

I'll second that.

[HonestTom]

6 minutes ago, paulontheball said:

I'm building stock for a future Isle of Wight layout set in the late 1930s/start of WW2 period and considering what a mish-mash of secondhand, patched up and modified coaching stock they had at the time, I wondered if a set of these or the Hattons units in SR livery would work behind a Terrier or an O2? - any views?

These ones look quite LBSC, which would fit the Isle of Wight.

[57xx]

8 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

 Hattons announced their Genesis coaches in October 19. Hornby had surviving examples scanned in November 19. That suggests to me that Hornby were already working on these prior to Hattons announcing their range.

Time would need to be booked to have access to full size examples, and i doubt if scanning is the 1st stage of the process.

 

Hattons range was already at an advanced CAD stage when announced, Hornby were clearly no where near as advanced. Seems pretty obvious what the intent was.

[Northmoor MPD]

People jump to call out Hornby for copying Hattons/Cavalex/Rails announcements but I would image working in a similar sector myself that these projects have been in the pipeline for years, you don’t gather all the info, go over technical drawings, create 3D models, cut moulds and produce decorated samples overnight, if Hornby have already spent hours researching these then they wouldn’t want to let them slip away to another manufacturer.

I could however be totally wrong but I guess we’ll never know

[Les Bird]

3 hours ago, Matt35027 said:

Lead times for new models being what they are, it's quite likely that Hornby started on their 4 & 6 wheel coaches before Hattons.

Almost certainly true given that some of Hornby's are already in stock

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Why would you wish that? It’s only business, Hattons knew that when they purposely went up against Bachmanns 66. There is room in the market for all these variations.

Every time Hornby throw their weight around trying to deter new players entering the market, they are squandering resources they could be using to produce something that's not available anywhere.

 

Band-wagon jumping is not the mark of a true market-leader and, whilst I can accept that the Rails/Terrier conflict might have been purely a matter of timing, this looks entirely calculated.

 

John