Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[Steamport Southport]

14 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

 

You're forgetting Hornby's 3 compartment hyper short coaches.

 

Hornby have been selling these in various liveries for decades.  Totally toy like and unconvincing so the new ones from Hattons and Hornby are a great want filled.

 

More accurate than most though. They actually existed....

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/fcn-sdjr-no-5-4-wheel-3-compartment-first-op-shows-solebar-lining.html

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

If that was true then why was there a 10 month gap between announcement and the showing of CAD?

 

There was a period of steady development between the first sketches released in October 2019 and the 3D CAD models published last April, during which Hattons absorbed feedback from various sources (including myself). It's simply a difference of approach - do your product development in public and benefit from informed comment, or present the public with a fait accompli. Which approach will result in the better model? It can go either way - I recall that there was a very short period between Hornby's announcement of their LMS Period 3 non-corridor carriages and their availability, and those are excellent representations of the prototype, in my opinion.

[APOLLO]

Paint 'em mucky black with a tar brush and sprinkle some coal dust on - Nice for a colliers train in S Wales or County Durham. 

 

That's what I might do with a couple !!

 

Brit15

[Chuffed 1]

1 hour ago, paulontheball said:

I'm building stock for a future Isle of Wight layout set in the late 1930s/start of WW2 period and considering what a mish-mash of secondhand, patched up and modified coaching stock they had at the time, I wondered if a set of these or the Hattons units in SR livery would work behind a Terrier or an O2? - any views?

It’s my belief that 4w stock had been scrapped on the IoW by the mid-thirties in favour of superannuated ex-LCDR and LBSCR bogie coaches, but I may be wrong.

 

is it me, or do these coaches have vacuum pipes and clasp brakes but no cylinders or brake gear?

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

More accurate than most though. They actually existed....

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/fcn-sdjr-no-5-4-wheel-3-compartment-first-op-shows-solebar-lining.html

 

Being a picker of nits, I'm compelled to point out that No. 5 is not the S&DJR 3-compartment first you're looking for. That carriage has Midland-style panelling as used at Highbridge from at least the early 1880s. The old Hornby coach has a peculiar style of raised beading that resembles that on some very old S&DJR 4-wheelers photographed in the 1890s, including 3-compartment first No. 1.

[MGR Hooper!]

Brilliant! I shall order a couple of LB&SCR ones to go behind my Terrier!

[Isambard Smith]

So I've just finished a set of 7 of the ratio 4 wheelers intended to be if no particular prototype. Choc brown with gold lining and lnwr lettering cos that's what I had lying around....

 

I hadn't heard about the genesis coaches till I was half done...and now the transfers are drying and Hornby do this to me...

 

so long story short I'm getting a set of each.  

 

more victorian tank engines to pull them please!

[Isambard Smith]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Dear Hornby

 

I can vouch this is definitely a generic tank engine.
 

Do you think we could get in FR red?

[Pmorgancym]

Now if they'd upgraded the open cab pannier and the J52 that would have made some nice train packs.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Brilliant! I shall order a couple of LB&SCR ones to go behind my Terrier!

 

Eleven or so would be realistic, as I understand it. Beware! These are presented in the post-1910 livery so only really suitable for a Terrier in umber (or vice-versa). Edit: an error on my part, as pointed out below; those with better knowledge (and who have looked more closely) point out  that the Hornby illustrations depict the mahogany livery which is appropriate to the Improved Engine Green Terrier livery.

 

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

Those Western 4-wheel brakes appear interesting. The full brake? Err....  But the passenger version? T48? I forsee some serious kit bashing in the future. If these are generic coaches, it won't be long before Western modellers start looking for their Mountford books  (Turns around, and finds his copy ). 

 

Beware! These carriages might pass for early diagrams with arc roofs but not carriages of the 1890s/1900s such as the T48, with three-arc roofs.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, Isambard Smith said:

So I've just finished a set of 7 of the ratio 4 wheelers intended to be if no particular prototype. Choc brown with gold lining and lnwr lettering cos that's what I had lying around....

 

But you've had more fun doing that!

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

... ah but is that a mallard, a shelduck, an Aylesbury duck, a mandarin duck or just some generic duck?

 

 

 

Could be Bombay Duck, especially if you think it's fishy.

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, paulontheball said:

I'm building stock for a future Isle of Wight layout set in the late 1930s/start of WW2 period and considering what a mish-mash of secondhand, patched up and modified coaching stock they had at the time, I wondered if a set of these or the Hattons units in SR livery would work behind a Terrier or an O2? - any views?

 

9 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

It’s my belief that 4w stock had been scrapped on the IoW by the mid-thirties in favour of superannuated ex-LCDR and LBSCR bogie coaches, but I may be wrong.

 

is it me, or do these coaches have vacuum pipes and clasp brakes but no cylinders or brake gear?

 

The Island never (as far as I know) had any 6-wheelers - they were all converted to 4-wheelers before being sent over. Most had indeed gone by the late 30s - I think there were a couple of LCDR brake thirds that remained until after the war on the Freshwater mail train (along with a handful of 4-wheel full-brakes, replaced in early BR days with 4 standard SR parcels vans)

[adb968008]

Tbh as a customer, Hattons provides more to me as a retailer, than Hornby does.

i ‘m not sure i’m inline with supporting aggressive duplication for the sake of it.

i don't need lots of generic coaches.
 

so my pre-order with Hattons ones will stay good.

 

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

More accurate than most though. They actually existed....

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/fcn-sdjr-no-5-4-wheel-3-compartment-first-op-shows-solebar-lining.html

AFAIK, there was only the one, and the chassis on the Hornby one is accurate only in the number of wheels....

 

John

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[LNWR18901910]

On 04/01/2021 at 11:31, AY Mod said:

Full range images

Well, that's what I'm getting this year! In fact, I'll pick up a spare set and repaint them into the WMR livery.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, HonestTom said:

I feel like one or both manufacturers could do well offering coaches in a generic livery for modellers interested in freelance companies. Perhaps a beaten-up brown or maroon livery with some faded numbers. They've done similar with some of their other stock in the past - several of their clerestory and 4-wheel coach releases haven't included company identification.

Just get yourself a fibre-glass pencil and take your pick.

 

John 

[MGR Hooper!]

16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Eleven or so would be realistic, as I understand it. Beware! These are presented in the post-1910 livery so only really suitable for a Terrier in umber (or vice-versa).

 

Not really looking for realism or accuracy with mine. Just want something for the Terrier to pull.

[Dunsignalling]

12 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

 

The Island never (as far as I know) had any 6-wheelers - they were all converted to 4-wheelers before being sent over. Most had indeed gone by the late 30s - I think there were a couple of LCDR brake thirds that remained until after the war on the Freshwater mail train (along with a handful of 4-wheel full-brakes, replaced in early BR days with 4 standard SR parcels vans)

Somewhere way back in the thread on the Hatton's ones, there's a reference to the central running gear being removeable so they can be readily converted in the same way as such prototypes. 

 

No idea if it'll be possible to do so with the Hornby ones.

 

John

[Ribird]

Is no one going to talk about how expensive the GWR Terrier Pack (R3960) is? £269? 

 

If the loco costs £100 (or even £120 with DCC), and the coaches cost  £36-ish, shouldn't that mean the pack would be £205 or £225?

Edited January 5, 2021 by Ribird
Forgot R code

[steve Bray]

I for one will be getting a couple of full brakes in SR livery from both Hornby & Hattons. My only whinge, is that the distinctive look-outs of the Brake coaches preclude representing many designs with plainer ends or with central duckets. I've long wanted to replicate a LCDR close coupled 7 coach suburban rake and now I have a RTR basis for all but the brake ends. In the past, a bit of 'cut & shut' would have solved the problem but with the prices as they are these days it's debateable whether spending £60+ to get one 6 wheeled coach into a suitable state is worth it. on.....oh well, can't have everything!

[GreenGiraffe22]

Some images for interest 

 

 

 

 

 

There was a specific photo I was looking for but can't find now of a Terrier looking particularly powerful with about 10 4 wheelers and an LBSC balloon coach tacked on the back

 

Edit: before anyone asks I haven't stolen photos, they're all links that have auto inserted the photos

Edited January 5, 2021 by GreenGiraffe22

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Knuckles said:

 

You're forgetting Hornby's 3 compartment hyper short coaches.

 

 

 

Ermm.... that is what I was describing!

[Pmorgancym]

If the pack is more expensive than buying the individual pieces that is insane

[Legend]

For years, since 1976 actually, Hornby have thought it sufficient to give us a three compartment 4 wheel coach on a goods van underframe .  Hatton's take the plunge , and presumably a significant investment to give us a range of 4 and 6 wheel coaches , which appear to have been very well received despite generic origin .  We know from Isley that Hornby didn't start development until after Hatton's announcement .

 

OK its business , but exploiting someone else's initiatives just leaves a bad taste . And this follows on from Rails Terrier and Cavalex 91 , so there's form. It just seems like they've copied someone else's idea to an amazing extent 4 and 6 wheel options , generic design , lighting 

 

That said I like the lighting idea and hope that spreads to other coaches , seems fairly cheap too.

 

If they really felt the need to bring out something Edwardian , might not a range of Celestory or flat roof short bogie coaches have been an option (an update of the old Tri ang coaches) ?  It does seem a bit of a waste simply copying someone else's idea . I bet Hatton's were raging at the Press Preview . What can they do though? They don' stock Bachmann , can't afford to lose Hornby too .  Best they can hope for is Hornby reaches parts of markets Hatton's wouldn't and then maybe people will progress onto their models .  In this case the market might be big enough for both , but just seems a shame.