Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[Georgeconna]

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Well, to wildly misquote Oscar Wilde, "To duplicate one product is unfortunate, to duplicate five* looks like a strategy"

 

* Cavalex Class 90, Rails Terrier, Rails Rocket coach, Dapol Large Prairie, Hattons coaches.

What are Hornby meant to do, sit there whilst all these SHOPS take their core base piece by piece and then people will moan that they have gone.

 

I'll but the big H's one for sure, They have been a good part of my life and have given me great pleasure with what they have produced from the mid 70's onwards. Hattons Well I probably buy them from them.

[Compound2632]

42 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

No they aren't, they are in pre-1903 livery, so Improved Engine Green Terriers

 

39 minutes ago, stephennicholson said:

Are you sure that's correct? The pictures look like the earlier mahogany livery that is suitable for the IEG Terriers that Hornby produce. They have a complete aversion to doing any Terriers in umber - so that would be perverse!

 

I stand corrected. My mistake. I have changed my original post to acknowledge your correction.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Compound2632

[spamcan61]

8 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

What are Hornby meant to do, sit there whilst all these SHOPS take their core base piece by piece and then people will moan that they have gone.

 

8 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

 

 

There's a huge range of other options they could've gone down rather than copy somebody else's idea. As already suggested how about some updated clerestory coaches. I've largely been very positive about Hornby's products and way of doing business over the decades but this is a tipping point for me. 

 

I'll certainly be moaning if we return to the bad old days when the UK market was dominated by two big players (or even 1 going back far enough)

Edited January 5, 2021 by spamcan61

[Caledonian]

Hattons are not [currently] offering NBR coaches and the Caley livery is forecast for phase 3 some years hence, so as far as I'm concerned the Hornby model in March will do me nicely to hang on the back of Maude - ok its in goods livery, but unless Hornby plan to be sensible and produce a new-tooling Class D [or J83 post grouping] it'll have to do - nicely

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

What are Hornby meant to do, sit there whilst all these SHOPS take their core base piece by piece and then people will moan that they have gone.

 

I'll but the big H's one for sure, They have been a good part of my life and have given me great pleasure with what they have produced from the mid 70's onwards. Hattons Well I probably buy them from them.

In exactly what way were Hatton's threatening Hornby's "core base"?

 

They've never produced any six-wheeled coaches, or a decent 4-wheeled one...

 

In any event, Hornby have been "taking" SHOPS core base since they started selling direct, and what's sauce for the goose...

 

John

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632]

Just now, Caledonian said:

Hattons are not [currently] offering NBR coaches and the Caley livery is forecast for phase 3 some years hence, so as far as I'm concerned the Hornby model in March will do me nicely to hang on the back of Maude - ok its in goods livery, but unless Hornby plan to be sensible and produce a new-tooling Class D [or J83 post grouping] it'll have to do - nicely

 

To my eyes, the Hornby artwork for LNWR livery looks quite passable for Caledonian livery!

[Compound2632]

Just now, Dunsignalling said:

In exactly what way were Hatton's threatening Hornby's "core base"?

 

I think @Georgeconna means, by moving from being solely retailers into commissioning and "own brand" lines.

[turbos]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To my eyes, the Hornby artwork for LNWR livery looks quite passable for Caledonian livery!

Which makes it a poor attempt at LNWR livery then!

 

Brian.

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think @Georgeconna means, by moving from being solely retailers into commissioning and "own brand" lines.

See the addition to my post....

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, turbos said:

Which makes it a poor attempt at LNWR livery then!

 

Brian.

 

It's fundamentally not helped by the non-LNWR panelling style. The Hattons version of LNWR livery boldly ignores the wrongness of the panelling.

[Chris_nicole]

Those do look rather nice. Just thinking, the Hull and Barnsley used to run four wheelers and have one under restoration.

What are the chances? ...

 

I may have to forgive Hornby for shutting down the Humbrol factory.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

[adb968008]

This topic has generated more pages in Hornby than any other of their releases today.

The Hattons coach has gone to hundreds of pages.

 

So there we have it, on a forum that critiques for extreme accuracy and ever higher standards.. the topic of pretend coaches generates the most excitement.

 

Surely the question isnt “what” they are making, but “why” is it such a hot topic?

 

i think message here is.. people want more pre1923 model railways.

 

if someone reads that message, and starts making accurate pre1923 stock, the market for generics could be short lived.

Edited January 5, 2021 by adb968008

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Chris_nicole said:

Those do look rather nice. Just thinking, the Hull and Barnsley used to run four wheelers and have one under restoration.

What are the chances? ...

 

Apart from the H&B 4-wheelers having square-cornered panelling, not far off?

[PaulRhB]

Well I’ll have some SR ones but I’ll keep the Hattons orders too. Weird to do closely duplicate rather than redo something like the shorty clerestories but Hey Ho we wanted Hornby to be more dynamic!

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

This topic has generated more pages in Hornby than any other of their releases today.

The Hattons coach has gone to hundreds of pages.

 

So there we have it, on a forum that critiques for extreme accuracy and ever higher standards.. the topic of pretend coaches generates the most excitement.

 

Surely the question isnt “what” they are making, but “why” is it such a hot topic?

 

i think message here is.. people want more pre1923 model railways.

 

if someone reads that message, and starts making accurate pre1923 stock, the market for generics could be short lived.

But only if they make the "right" pre-1923 stock, and there's a lot more potential wrongs than rights among potential purchasers.

 

Coaches from one company finished in the livery of another to spread tooling costs across sensible production quantities would be no different than generics but would attract much more criticism. 

 

John

[Synch]

I apologize for being blunt but Hornby should have simply made Stroudley carriages, having a profile remain relatively distinctive to one company is not how you make a generic coach, in that way Hattons have done a much better job.

These are only worthwhile in LBSCR colors, and should have been done entirely as LBSCR coaches rather then an attempt to undercut Hattons.  I'm not sure who exactly this is supposed to please when the perspective from both sides of the equation (one wanting the exact diagrams and others wanting different liveries) are left with compromises. 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AFAIK, there was only the one, and the chassis on the Hornby one is accurate only in the number of wheels....

 

John

 

Indeed.  The Hornby 4 wheel coach is often claimed to be "of" the S&DJR coach, but clearly has only two things in common with it; the number of compartments and the number of wheels.

 

Hopefully these new generic coaches will mean that we never have to see one of these Short Horrors again!

[Edwardian]

43 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

In exactly what way were Hatton's threatening Hornby's "core base"?

 

They've never produced any six-wheeled coaches, or a decent 4-wheeled one...

 

In any event, Hornby have been "taking" SHOPS core base since they started selling direct, and what's sauce for the goose...

 

John

 

I can hear a, slightly nasal, voice complaining "it's not a spoiler, a non-prototypical four wheel coach has always been in our range"

 

#zerosumgame

[Knuckles]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Ermm.... that is what I was describing!

Fair enough.  I'll accept correction then.

 

When you mentioned metal I was assuming a different coach as the ones I had were plastic; probably later editions.

[Covkid]

18 minutes ago, Synch said:

I apologize for being blunt but Hornby should have simply made Stroudley carriages, having a profile remain relatively distinctive to one company is not how you make a generic coach, in that way Hattons have done a much better job.

These are only worthwhile in LBSCR colors, and should have been done entirely as LBSCR coaches rather then an attempt to undercut Hattons.  I'm not sure who exactly this is supposed to please when the perspective from both sides of the equation (one wanting the exact diagrams and others wanting different liveries) are left with compromises. 

 

That is your opinion.

Others may well approve of Hattons and Hornbys enterprise. My modelling is strictly post nationalisation so I have no interest at all but i am sure a proportion of the customer base will quite happily hand over folding stuff for these vehicles, simply because they look nice. 

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Fair enough.  I'll accept correction then.

 

When you mentioned metal I was assuming a different coach as the ones I had were plastic; probably later editions.

 

IIRC the body of those things has always been metal - hence why it was used for Hornby's track cleaning coach where weight is important.

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

IIRC the body of those things has always been metal - hence why it was used for Hornby's track cleaning coach where weight is important.

 

My track cleaning coach, from the 1980s, had a plastic body. I've never seen a metal one.

[Knuckles]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

IIRC the body of those things has always been metal - hence why it was used for Hornby's track cleaning coach where weight is important.

 

My 4 GWR ones were plastic.  No mistake there.

 

Pretty sure both exist though, is normal for redesigns here n there.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I think the light wand is tricky territory for Hornby.

 

 

Would have got away with it if.......should have come with lighting in the Harry Potter sets......two birds, one stone etc etc 

Edited January 5, 2021 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I'm sure Hornby have all the relevant safety aspects covered - it's something they have done for years after all.

I am sure they have, still seems odd that every item we have now (that is new) that takes button cells has the battery cover secured with a ridiculously small screw......the kind that only small children could undo