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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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5 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Fine , but the LNWR coaches survived until at least 1953, and possibly as late as 1956. The MR clerestories had gone by 1947. And there were a lot more of the LNW coaches to start with. I am slightly surprised that LMS and LMR modellers have simply ignored the LNW range

Subconciously they all worship at the shrine of Derby. Crewe and the LNWR are an anathema.

 

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.

 

I may have missed a post covering it, but has anyone asked, or explained , why Hornby aren't doing what SEEMS to be the most popular pre-grouping livery  -  the SE&CR ?

 

It is the railway with the most popular loco livery, but Hornby are ignoring them ?

 

Seems very odd.

 

.

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8 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

And there were a lot more of the LNW coaches to start with. 

 

Yes indeed. There were 244 of the 50ft corridor thirds, making them by some margin the most numerous design of LNWR corridor carriage. Ex-LNWR 50ft corridor carriages are frequently seen in photos of Midland Division trains in LMS days, looking rather incongruous with their 8'0" width and flat roofs in among the clerestories and elliptical roofs.

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7 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

Does anyone know if Stroudley 4 wheelers are suitable for a J Class? I doubt it but much stranger things have happened.

 

Thanks

Hardly. Right from their introduction until the mid-20s when the Arthurs arrived, the Js worked key main line services, such as the 5.00 from London Bridge to Brighton. By that stage 4-wheelers were not really visible on everyday LBSC services. 

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As I understand it, the Stroudley 4-wheelers are a bit left-field for the run of British 4 / 6 wheel carriages. They are early - 1872 - and although to some extent they set the style for carriages of later decades, they have various features that are untypical of later construction, including on the LB&SCR. (The lack of bolection mouldings, the fixed lights having the glass inserted from inside the body, is to my mind the most striking.) At that time, the anticipated life of a carriage in ordinary service was around 20 - 25 years, so they were thoroughly outmoded by the late 1890s.

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48 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

 

It is slightly odd as the LNW prototypes look great but you have to remember there have been two RTR Midland Compound models out and a 1P in the works for much longer than there have been a Coal Tank (something which many, including myself until recently, think of as solely a goods loco) and much more recently, a Precedent. 

 

Additionally I would argue that the clerestories look and feel 'more LMS'. After all, they have always been red!

 

Those LNWR coaches do look good in red, though ;)

 

 836700029_LMSexLNWRBrakeThird01a.JPG.1c3a609fa2a2e637a006eacb4b5feeaa.JPG

1649253038_LMSexLNWRCompo01b.JPG.7de6b0b36aa10ea49bab03ec463469d1.JPG

 

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2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Hardly. Right from their introduction until the mid-20s when the Arthurs arrived, the Js worked key main line services, such as the 5.00 from London Bridge to Brighton. By that stage 4-wheelers were not really visible on everyday LBSC services. 

 

Thanks :D

 

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Those LNWR coaches do look good in red, though ;)

 

 836700029_LMSexLNWRBrakeThird01a.JPG.1c3a609fa2a2e637a006eacb4b5feeaa.JPG

1649253038_LMSexLNWRCompo01b.JPG.7de6b0b36aa10ea49bab03ec463469d1.JPG

 

 

Oh boy, don't make me start modelling era 3, I have enough to be getting on with as it is! :blush:

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8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes indeed. There were 244 of the 50ft corridor thirds, making them by some margin the most numerous design of LNWR corridor carriage. Ex-LNWR 50ft corridor carriages are frequently seen in photos of Midland Division trains in LMS days, looking rather incongruous with their 8'0" width and flat roofs in among the clerestories and elliptical roofs.

According to Jenkinson's book 244 D268s were built, but there were also another 100 50 ft D316/317 eight foot wide arc roof carriages.

 

Did the MR build corridor stock in those quantities or did they concentrate more on "suburban" stock?

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1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

As I understand it, the Stroudley 4-wheelers are a bit left-field for the run of British 4 / 6 wheel carriages. They are early - 1872 - and although to some extent they set the style for carriages of later decades, they have various features that are untypical of later construction, including on the LB&SCR. (The lack of bolection mouldings, the fixed lights having the glass inserted from inside the body, is to my mind the most striking.) At that time, the anticipated life of a carriage in ordinary service was around 20 - 25 years, so they were thoroughly outmoded by the late 1890s.

 

Aside from some of those delightful full brakes that Hornby is doing an elongated version of, the remaining Stroudley 4-wheelers were not even considered worth repainting in the delightful umber and cream. The outlier is the 4-set on the IoW.  These had the rebuilt duckets. Smallbrook Studios produce them. 

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6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And yet regrettably the J15 has either been over-produced or has been a poor seller (or both) which might put Hornby off such an approach for the future.   However as they will have soon exhausted LNER 'big engines'  (with the exception of  various NER types and, arguably, the B17 streamliner) where will they turn then for their apparent love of big steam?   Turbomotive is the most obvious to my way of thinking.

I was an LNER/GER modeller for over thirty years when we lived in Essex and I waited in vain for decent eastern region Locos to materialise other then the usual suspects (Flying Scotsman, Mallard etc etc)......we moved to Cornwall and I started my new layout based on WR.......then they start bringing out ER stuff........I always yearned for the J15 as a lovely little workhorse, but it’ll look daft down here! 

 

As most of my life, I’ve been “out of sync”.......:D

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9 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

I may have missed a post covering it, but has anyone asked, or explained , why Hornby aren't doing what SEEMS to be the most popular pre-grouping livery  -  the SE&CR ?

 

It is the railway with the most popular loco livery, but Hornby are ignoring them ?

 

Seems very odd.

 

.

Even odder when you remember that they've released two different engines in SE&CR livery:scratchhead:   But I suspect that sort of logic might not come into it when you see the anachronistic  'GWR' Terrier set but seemingly no set with a Terrier and LB&SCR like(ish) coaches in the far more logical LB&SCR livery combination.   I would have thought it a far more joined-up way of doing things to start by releasing generic Pre-Group liveried coaches to go with the engines you've already sold than doing them to for something else.  And why not a set of a J15 with some in early BR. livery - not far off the realoty of the Mid Suffolk where the last 6 wheelers ran in every day servivce?

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5 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

 

Thanks :D

 

 

Oh boy, don't make me start modelling era 3, I have enough to be getting on with as it is! :blush:

 

 Thanks, but don't start me on the Era System!

 

It's one of the noirest of my bêtes noires!

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14 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Did the MR build corridor stock in those quantities or did they concentrate more on "suburban" stock?

 

Although the two railways were of similar size in many respects, the LNWR's passenger traffic was much greater than that of the Midland. The LNWR started building corridor stock in 1892 - for the 2pm, "The Corridor" - so in fact WCJS; the 50ft carriages of 1898-1902 were the first purely LNWR corridor carriages. The Midland first introduced corridor carriages on its Scotch Expresses in 1899 - joint stock - with corridor carriages for purely Midland use from 1905. The Midland continued to make considerable use of non-corridor carriages with lavatory accommodation for medium-distance passenger trains. 

 

"Suburban" stock is a bit of a modellers term that tends to be slapped on to any type of non-corridor stock. One thing I will point out is that the Midland was building bogie carriages for longer distance trains in quantity from the late 1870s; the LNWR was stuck with Webb's radial underframes for a good while after that.

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55 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Even odder when you remember that they've released two different engines in SE&CR livery:scratchhead:   But I suspect that sort of logic might not come into it when you see the anachronistic  'GWR' Terrier set but seemingly no set with a Terrier and LB&SCR like(ish) coaches in the far more logical LB&SCR livery combination.   I would have thought it a far more joined-up way of doing things to start by releasing generic Pre-Group liveried coaches to go with the engines you've already sold than doing them to for something else.  And why not a set of a J15 with some in early BR. livery - not far off the realoty of the Mid Suffolk where the last 6 wheelers ran in every day servivce?

 

I've a feeling it's a good way to get them in the public conscience.

 

A popular locomotive which will definitely sell with a few items of "new" rolling stock. I want the loco but have no real interest in the carriages. But how many others will also want the carriages and then buy more to make a longer train? I would expect quite a few.

 

It's a bit like using the Brighton Works Terrier and preserved livery H Class to boost numbers in the Collectors Club. I wanted the Terrier which was the only other one I really wanted. So I joined and bought one.

 

Now it's reduced to a more palatable price I'll get one. The carriages can go to my nephew.

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport
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11 hours ago, Legend said:

I thought a Deans Goods maybe .

 

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The clue to its inappropriateness is in the name.

 

Now don't be such a pessimist Stephen. You can easily make a prototypical train using the Dean Goods and these new 4-wheelers. All it takes is three easy steps::

 

1: Convert the Oxford Rail Dean Goods to a round topped version. Simple job, only took me two years.

2: Wait for Hornby to release the new 4-wheelers in Manchester & Milford livery. Bound to happen.

3: Then build this: https://region-im-modell.de/WebRoot/Store17/Shops/c34b0866-b907-4df3-89c9-c04d86d28730/5DCE/81FA/6D24/EFA4/87AC/0A48/3549/EE15/9781909823198_IN03.jpg

 

Simple! 

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1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

1: Convert the Oxford Rail Dean Goods to a round topped version. Simple job, only took me two years.

 

Err, yes, must dig mine out...

 

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

2: Wait for Hornby to release the new 4-wheelers in Manchester & Milford livery. Bound to happen.

 

Does anybody know what the M&M carriage livery was?

 

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

 

Well, that is nice.

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2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Does anybody know what the M&M carriage livery was?

 

I'm not sure. My post was tongue in cheek but it did make me ponder the same question. Pete Morris did some models once, although the photos are a bit small: http://www.gwr.org.uk/layoutsdrefach1.html

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Hattons, Hornby and now....

 

Anyone for a 'generic' 4-wheel coach from Bachmann?

 

Due this month, they are in BR red with a compartment coach and a brake coach with end lookout duckets. And, at only a tad under £30 each from Model Railways Direct (other stores may be available) ! :D

Screenshot 2021-01-06 at 23.11.53.png

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On 05/01/2021 at 10:34, MikeParkin65 said:

Both in terms of duplication and not of any specific prototype. In fact is a model of something that doesnt exist a model at all?

It does, I reckon, if the purpose of the creation of the miniature object is to represent a full size one, irrespective of how badly, and the whole thing is much more honest and open if it is admittedely generic and not claimed to be accurate.

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