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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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18 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

But the GWR Terrier is special. Hornby know that, that's why they are doing it this way. Don't underestimate the amount of GWR enthusiasts there are. I reckon this could be the start of the resurgence of the GWR BLT.

 

 

Jason

It is a delightful oddity, but hardly representative of typical GWR branch line power? It seems to have led a fairly inauspicious nomadic existence and I highly doubt it was ever used on revenue earning passenger trains by the GWR.

 

For what it's worth, the Adams Radial has never been produced in Drummond green by either Oxford or Hornby. The LSWR model that Hornby have produced is in the earlier sage green and is sold out everywhere. Not even any on eBay.

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6 hours ago, nathan70000 said:

It is a delightful oddity, but hardly representative of typical GWR branch line power? It seems to have led a fairly inauspicious nomadic existence and I highly doubt it was ever used on revenue earning passenger trains by the GWR.

 

For what it's worth, the Adams Radial has never been produced in Drummond green by either Oxford or Hornby. The LSWR model that Hornby have produced is in the earlier sage green and is sold out everywhere. Not even any on eBay.

 

Adams 'pea green' for the Radial, though physically the as preserved condition of 488.  The M7 got the Drummond and the Urie 'sage green' liveries, but only, I think, as ltd editions in both cases.  

 

1224041916_DSC_9848-Copy(2).JPG.8fe660455e8b550a3c72e3f82d605a67.JPG

 

The consistent lack of a Radial in Drummond livery is a curious omission, not least because that is the livery in which they started their long association with the Lyme Regis branch. It seems odd to produce pre-Grouping livery coaches (albeit faux ones) without maxing out on your loco tooling to produce matching engines.  So, perhaps at some point that thought will occur? 

 

For years modellers dependent on RTR have customarily populated ostensibly inter-war GW BLTs and other layouts with 14XXs and Panniers with top feeds, locos in 1940s livery and various other anachronisms and solecisms, including diesel railcars (not exactly a rural branch line thing on the GWR), so the unlikely combination of the Hornby GWR Terrier train pack announced is just a further step on the beaten track away from the prototype.  So, again, I think the mistake here is to worry too much about prototype fidelity, because it's not really on the menu with these releases! I think of it more as harmless and enjoyable fun! Back to the spirit of the tinplate era; it's Great Western 'cos it has "Great Western" printed on the side! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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2 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

I am still awaiting an explanation as to why there are no SE&CR liveried coaches ?

 

Perhaps nobody knows. Have you asked Hornby directly?

 

At the same time, you could ask them why there are NBR liveried ones?

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2 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

I am still awaiting an explanation as to why there are no SE&CR liveried coaches ?

 

Anyone ?

 

.

Somebody up-thread suggested that SECR is a most popular livery. Expecting good sales due to  the overall novelty (!) of the product with the first release, then adding SECR to a second release to milk more, sounds very sensible to me. 

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7 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

I am still awaiting an explanation as to why there are no SE&CR liveried coaches ?

 

Anyone ?

 

The only people who know the answer to that are working for Hornby. Unless all you want is random speculation of course.

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Re SE&CR and LNWR, in common with the Hattons coaches, the generic style of the panelling is particularly unsuitable for these liveries.  By adopting the vertical panelling to the exclusion of a waist band on the full brake (clearly inspired by the real, shorter, Stroudley vehicle) and brake third, you at least nod slightly towards SE and LNW practice. I wondered if that was intentional.  I might be overthinking here.  If it was intentional, the lack of SE&CR livery in the announcement is all the more curious.  

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3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The only people who know the answer to that are working for Hornby. Unless all you want is random speculation of course.


It’s hard to put a price on random speculation.

 

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13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Adams 'pea green' for the Radial, though physically the as preserved condition of 488.  The M7 got the Drummond and the Urie 'sage green' liveries, but only, I think, as ltd editions in both cases.  

 

1224041916_DSC_9848-Copy(2).JPG.8fe660455e8b550a3c72e3f82d605a67.JPG


Although the Drummond green as applied to the Hornby M7 is not even close to, say, the Phoenix interpretation of it, or that in "Southern Style". However, it is accurate to the colour the preserved 245 is painted in, which I believe is closer to Drummond's "Royal Green" than the standard livery colour. 

I've repainted my Hornby 245 with the Phoenix colour as the difference in colours is quite striking, even more so in person than in the photo!image.png.4072741546d504496518b6704057ce34.png

 

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10 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:


Although the Drummond green as applied to the Hornby M7 is not even close to, say, the Phoenix interpretation of it, or that in "Southern Style". However, it is accurate to the colour the preserved 245 is painted in, which I believe is closer to Drummond's "Royal Green" than the standard livery colour. 

I've repainted my Hornby 245 with the Phoenix colour as the difference in colours is quite striking, even more so in person than in the photo!image.png.4072741546d504496518b6704057ce34.png

 

 

I didn't realise they did them in duo-tone, would that be known as Drurie?

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21 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:


Although the Drummond green as applied to the Hornby M7 is not even close to, say, the Phoenix interpretation of it, or that in "Southern Style". However, it is accurate to the colour the preserved 245 is painted in, which I believe is closer to Drummond's "Royal Green" than the standard livery colour. 

I've repainted my Hornby 245 with the Phoenix colour as the difference in colours is quite striking, even more so in person than in the photo!image.png.4072741546d504496518b6704057ce34.png

 

 

Yes, though not necessary to the point I was making, I am also not a great fan of the Hornby version of Drummond green on the M7.

 

Query if the LSWR Terrier, which should be in the same livery, looks the same?

 

I think SW colours are probably a bit of a minefield and it may be hard to be definitive.  I like the Precision Paints version, which I assume is what you used, which resembles Drummond green as Hamilton Ellis painted it.  Aside from the RTR M7 pictured, my Drummond passenger liveried locos have the Precision Paints green.

 

So, repainting is probably the best way to go as things stand. Mine were done professionally, I hasten to add, and I am very impressed at the neatness of your repaint.  Careful masking?

 

20210108_093927.jpg.980acc69fc5059ead03c3c2c616cd035.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
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53 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Adams 'pea green' for the Radial, though physically the as preserved condition of 488.  The M7 got the Drummond and the Urie 'sage green' liveries, but only, I think, as ltd editions in both cases.  

 

1224041916_DSC_9848-Copy(2).JPG.8fe660455e8b550a3c72e3f82d605a67.JPG

 

The consistent lack of a Radial in Drummond livery is a curious omission, not least because that is the livery in which they started their long association with the Lyme Regis branch. It seems odd to produce pre-Grouping livery coaches (albeit faux ones) without maxing out on your loco tooling to produce matching engines.  So, perhaps at some point that thought will occur? 

 

For years modellers dependent on RTR have customarily populated ostensibly inter-war GW BLTs and other layouts with 14XXs and Panniers with top feeds, locos in 1940s livery and various other anachronisms and solecisms, including diesel railcars (not exactly a rural branch line thing on the GWR), so the unlikely combination of the Hornby GWR Terrier train pack announced is just a further step on the beaten track away from the prototype.  So, again, I think the mistake here is to worry too much about prototype fidelity, because it's not really on the menu with these releases! I think of it more as harmless and enjoyable fun! Back to the spirit of the tinplate era; it's Great Western 'cos it has "Great Western" printed on the side! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have one of the M7s, LSWR 252 (R2678).

 

It was a "Limited Edition", but the label states it's  one of 1,200 so hardly what we'd call a Limited Edition today. A sign of the times?

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Just now, Dunsignalling said:

I have one of the M7s, it was a "Limited Edition", but the label say one of 1,200 so hardly what we'd call a Limited Edition today. A sign of the times?

 

John

 

Interesting. I hadn't spotted that. 

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5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Interesting. I hadn't spotted that. 

If anybody really wants one and has deep enough pockets, I Googled this one and one result showed Olivia's Trains still listing them as in stock, analogue version £175.

 

John 

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16 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

If anybody really wants one and has deep enough pockets, I Googled this one and one result showed Olivia's Trains still listing them as in stock, analogue version £175.

 

John 

 

Ha, perhaps, then, I should sell mine and apply the proceeds to the new Bachmann Brighton Atlantic!

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yes, though not necessary to the point I was making, I am also not a great fan of the Hornby version of Drummond green on the M7.

 

Query if the LSWR Terrier, which should be in the same livery, looks the same?

 

So, repainting is probably the best way to go as things stand. Mine were done professionally, I hasten to add, and I am very impressed at the neatness of your repaint.  Careful masking?

 

20210108_093927.jpg.980acc69fc5059ead03c3c2c616cd035.jpg


I have to admit, I've not seen either of the LSWR terriers done by Hornby - the real locos didn't work near where my layout is set. The neatness is due to yes, careful masking, and careful work with a white-spirit-moistened brush while the paint was half-dry to remove it from the printed lining. 

But this is getting away from the topic at hand, the Hornby carriages! There's a lovely photo of an LSWR 4-carriage set in Weddell (in, I think, 1899?), of which a relatively close approximation could be made using a combination of Hornby and Hattons LSWR carriages:

Locomotive: O2
6-wheel full brake (Hattons) - similar window arrangement and panelling
6-wheel 5-compartment third (Hattons)
4-wheel 4-compartment composite (Hornby - in the prototype photo this has an earlier panelling style and a slightly lower, flatter roofline than the 6-wheel stock - a bonus of using two companies' models!)
6-wheel 3-compartment brake third (Hattons) (this should really have duckets at the end but should match the style of the other 6-wheelers in the train)

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I've for a while had 10 Hattons GNR coaches on pre-order.  Selection of 1st, 2nd, 4 n 5 compartment n 2 brakes.  1 longer train or 2 smaller ones in various combinations.  Will be repainting a small selection of them into a slight freelance variant.

 

All light bar fitted.

 

And er......that's it so far.  Wallet is crying (will be).

 

I got no discounts due to only being interested in 4 wheelers.  Anoying but there you go.

Edited by Knuckles
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22 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

No ones complained yet about them being nothing like NER stock. I seem to recall someone on the Hatton's generic coaches thread bleating on about it ad nauseum. In fact he became a right PITA.

 

That was Great Northern. As to North Eastern, the Hattons carriages are the right length - 32ft*, with flat ends - and the 5-compartment third, lavatory composite, and full brake aren't so very far off Diagrams 15, 6 and 21 - all types dating from the 1880s. There is a suitable locomotive in the offing, in the form of TMC's Bachmann-made Class O 0-4-4T.

 

*Nobody's yet answered the question how long the Hornby 6-wheelers are.

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18 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That was Great Northern. As to North Eastern, the Hattons carriages are the right length - 32ft*, with flat ends - and the 5-compartment third, lavatory composite, and full brake aren't so very far off Diagrams 15, 6 and 21 - all types dating from the 1880s. There is a suitable locomotive in the offing, in the form of TMC's Bachmann-made Class O 0-4-4T.

 

*Nobody's yet answered the question how long the Hornby 6-wheelers are.

 

Indeed, I seem to recall feeding in some NER drawings photographed at York.  All in all I felt that, by taking on board a variety of influences and always striving to choose the more typical styles, Hattons did a superb job in synthesising  varied pre-Grouping practice to achieve a typical prototypical look.  You are to be commended for leading that effort and Hattons for being so open to advice based upon an understanding of how such coaches were actually constructed and appeared. They will, I predict, be a tough act to follow (or, in this case, precede!). 

 

Will we see some NER BLTs in future, with aforementioned Class Os, Hattons 6-wheelers and Rails/Heljan Autocars? It would make for a change.

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1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

Indeed, I seem to recall feeding in some NER drawings photographed at York. 

 

Indeed you did. There doesn't seem to be a good book on NER carriages - North Eastern Record Vol. 2 is mostly focused on changes in body style and how that affected livery and so doesn't give much detail on individual types, though there is a useful list of diagrams.

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On 08/01/2021 at 02:18, nathan70000 said:

It is a delightful oddity, but hardly representative of typical GWR branch line power? It seems to have led a fairly inauspicious nomadic existence and I highly doubt it was ever used on revenue earning passenger trains by the GWR.

 

For what it's worth, the Adams Radial has never been produced in Drummond green by either Oxford or Hornby. The LSWR model that Hornby have produced is in the earlier sage green and is sold out everywhere. Not even any on eBay.

This looks more Great Western to me...

 

yet its 1000 miles away and 80 years later..

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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