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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

More thought could have been of benefit here, but, if they did not make a start in earnest (if at all) until after the Hattons announcement ... 

 

Extrapolating wildly from absolutely no data, but a probably wrong implication I made from that sentence: I wonder how many projects have been started and then put on hold until a competitor comes up with an announcement. 

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14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Seriously, dude? 

 

No not seriously at all. I was in fact joking, and meant no offense. If I have inadvertently caused any, then I apologise for that. It was obvious to me that Steamport was joking, and I expected my comment to be taken in the same manner. I realise now that I should have included a 'joker' emoji for clarity, and will be sure to always do so in future.

 

It was Saturday night, I was reading the thread and having a giggle, and just thought I'd chip in. I will have to stand back more and weigh up the potential for misunderstandings in future. I don't actually care about anyone's likes or dislikes, their politics, their religion or even which region or timescale they model*. In fact, all the modellers I know or have known have always had a robust sense of humour, and I tend to assume this is true even here, on a global forum, without the benefit of non verbal communication. I got this wrong last night, and for which I will apologise again and pledge to be more careful to avoid such an error in future. 

 

Jim

 

Oh, and my username is based on LNER 2579 'Dick Turpin'. I know the historical Dick Turpin was an undesirable character at best, and that he deserved to be hanged at York on 7th April 1739 for his crimes, but I do like the name, especially for a racehorse or a locomotive.

 

 

 

* Another little joke :jester:

Edited by Dick Turpin
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7 minutes ago, Dick Turpin said:

 

No not seriously at all. I was in fact joking, and meant no offense.

For what its worth I thought it was obvious you were joking. 

 

No real harm done, lets get back to discussing the all important mechanics of the exact methodology employed in making up coaches 

 

Oh I nearly forgot 

 

:)

Edited by Hal Nail
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19 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Surely Elgar, Holst, Britten, or another English composer would be more appropriate.

Yes, but music isn't like that. A passage of music grabs your imagination - or doesn't. In my case Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto is inextricably linked to the railway at Eastbourne, since I was listening intently to it when Mrs Thompson's marvellous model appeared in RM in 1968.

 

Now, liking Rachmaninoff reveals me to be a bit lowbrow, I know - my father was full of love for Mozart and Schubert - but it's something. And my affection for the LBSCR led me to chat to you at Railex in 2019, following which an LRM B4 kit was procured, assembled and painted for me by Jerry Clifford, "Queensquare" on RMweb, so perhaps "Rach 2" has helped us all!

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30 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Surely Elgar, Holst, Britten, or another English composer would be more appropriate.

 

Mars from the planets suite, by Holst, for when we consider the formation of the LMS, and as the Midland and LNWR representatives manoeuvre into battle formations for what is to come...*

 

 

 

 

*:jester:

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6 minutes ago, Dick Turpin said:

 

Mars from the planets suite, by Holst, for when we consider the formation of the LMS, and as the Midland and LNWR representatives manoeuvre into battle formations for what is to come...*

*:jester:

 

Don't get me started. Remember that Wagner's symphonic approach to the composition of his music dramas is rooted in his study of Beethoven. @Jol Wilkinson, Elgar evokes the Great Western, no doubt about that, but he was the most thorough-going Wagnerian of any English composer.

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2 hours ago, Dick Turpin said:

 

No not seriously at all. I was in fact joking, and meant no offense. If I have inadvertently caused any, then I apologise for that. It was obvious to me that Steamport was joking, and I expected my comment to be taken in the same manner. I realise now that I should have included a 'joker' emoji for clarity, and will be sure to always do so in future.

 

It was Saturday night, I was reading the thread and having a giggle, and just thought I'd chip in. I will have to stand back more and weigh up the potential for misunderstandings in future. I don't actually care about anyone's likes or dislikes, their politics, their religion or even which region or timescale they model*. In fact, all the modellers I know or have known have always had a robust sense of humour, and I tend to assume this is true even here, on a global forum, without the benefit of non verbal communication. I got this wrong last night, and for which I will apologise again and pledge to be more careful to avoid such an error in future. 

 

Jim

 

Oh, and my username is based on LNER 2579 'Dick Turpin'. I know the historical Dick Turpin was an undesirable character at best, and that he deserved to be hanged at York on 7th April 1739 for his crimes, but I do like the name, especially for a racehorse or a locomotive.

 

 

 

* Another little joke :jester:

Clearly my humour circuits got disconnected and I overreacted, for which I apologise. 

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On 08/01/2021 at 09:12, Compound2632 said:

 

Perhaps nobody knows. Have you asked Hornby directly?

 

At the same time, you could ask them why there are NBR liveried ones?

 

Why ?  To make me happy of course

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Elgar evokes the Great Western, no doubt about that, but he was the most thorough-going Wagnerian of any English composer.

 

Well now, once upon a time there was a TV drama called God's Wonderful Railway and the title music was, indeed, a piece of Elgar, his Severn Suite, Opus 87. 

 

But, yes, Elgar is evocative of England generally, but perhaps particularly places in the West, such as the Malvern Hills.

 

 

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22 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Hi All.

 

Without wading through reams of posts, has anybody been able to identify the lengths of all the coaches in both the Hattons and Hornby ranges so that we can work out which ones might be nearest to accurate of the generic offerings ?

 

From my limited knowledge I know that the L.C. & D.R. had 28ft and 30ft 6 wheeled coaches (with I think one exception), but of course they converted a lot of them to 4 wheelers later in life. Did any other companies do the same thing ? They also had square panelling which I do not think is covered by any of these offerings so far. Which other companies used square panelling ?

 

 

 

Ray

 

 

We know from Phil Parker that the Hornby 4 wheelers are either 25' or 26' over body (reported as 115mm over buffers) with 15' wheelbase.

 

No dims for the Hornby 6 wheelers .

 

It seems that the Hornby 4 wheelers are a couple of feet shorter than the Hattons ones, so they will open up more options somewhere

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9 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

We know from Phil Parker that the Hornby 4 wheelers are either 25' or 26' over body (reported as 115mm over buffers) with 15' wheelbase.

 

No dims for the Hornby 6 wheelers .

 

It seems that the Hornby 4 wheelers are a couple of feet shorter than the Hattons ones, so they will open up more options somewhere

My recollections* of pre-grouping trains is one of them being a mish mash of stock - only as railways developed from the 1930s do I see rakes getting more uniform as the original stock was replaced with longer more modern stock leading up to the Mk1 from early Nationalisation.

 

So to me a rake of 4/6 wheelers needs to have a mix of coach sizes not just in terms of wheel numbers but length and height too, also really on a longer train perhaps even an early bogie coach thrown in.  So Hornby bringing their own flavour of 4/6 wheelers would let achieve what I want in my minds eye.

 

*to qualify, I am not 100 years old, I meant in pictures not in real life :D

Edited by woodenhead
clarify I am not getting regular telegrams from the Queen
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44 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

My recollections* of pre-grouping trains is one of them being a mish mash of stock - only as railways developed from the 1930s do I see rakes getting more uniform as the original stock was replaced with longer more modern stock leading up to the Mk1 from early Nationalisation.

 

That very much depends on period. If you look at photos of LNWR or Midland trains from the 1890s, there's a consistent, uniform profile - apart from the LNWR dining saloons, which at that period were only on the most prestigious Anglo-Scottish trains. For the Midland, one starts to see clerestory carriages mixed in from 1897 or so, reaching clerestory uniformity by c. 1905, lasting until after the Great War when elliptical-roofed carriages started to appear. On the LNWR, cove roofs - matching the lower part of the dining saloon roofs, from 1903 and elliptical roofs from 1907, with departures from the traditional panelling style from c. 1912 - so for the last fifteen years to grouping, it's LNWR express train roofline mayhem. But away from the main lines, in places where the 20th century carriages hadn't penetrated, the old consistent arc roof profile would still dominate. Remember that most photos from this period show main line express trains, which aren't necessarily typical.

 

The Great Western's expresses went through nearly as chaotic a period as the LNWR, with the addition of messing about with the livery, too.

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Quick question 

 

I know that when Dugald Drummond began designing NBR locomotives there was a lot of Stroudley influence with some of the early types being near copies of Stroudley types.

 

So the question is was there a similarity in the carriage designs as well.

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6 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

I know that when Dugald Drummond began designing NBR locomotives there was a lot of Stroudley influence with some of the early types being near copies of Stroudley types.

 

So the question is was there a similarity in the carriage designs as well.

 

Possibly. It certainly seems there wasn't much in the way of carriage design on the North British before Drummond arrived in 1875, after five years as works manager at Brighton. These would be the folk to ask. Drummond certainly introduced new designs on the Caledonian but these have the three-layer panelling that was also characteristic of North British carriages from at least the time of Holmes, so rather different to Stroudley's designs.

 

When thinking about Stroudley's influence on Drummond, it's worth remembering that both cut their teeth under S.W. Johnson's superintendency at Cowlairs in the 1860s.

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