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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I don't know, but it would be fun finding out.

 

Announced: Ex-LNWR 1850s 4-wheel coaches for the Brampton Railway circa 1889 and Millwall Extension Railway Starbucks tramcars.

I plump for the Isle of Man 'Caledonia' -  It would make a nice little generic 0-6-0T so kill several birds with one brickbat.  Choice of several liveries, an 0-6-0 chassis suitably gauged for either 16.6mm or 12mm track gauge plus a couple of bogie coaches but ideal for generic coaches with reduced gauge wheelsets.  I think I'll suggest it to Rails or Hattons and sit back waiting for the 2022 or '23 Hornby catalogue offering a 16.5mm gauge version or maybe even a 12mm gauge version along with suitable track as well of course

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12 hours ago, nathan70000 said:

The idea of generic brakevans probably isn't a bad one- there were several companies that used very similar designs. I think the SECR and the Midland definitely had identical brakevans and there was a WD/ROD design that was used by a number of companies. Perhaps a generic underframe with two body styles would give you brakevans for the GN, LNWR, SECR, LBSCR and the Midland? Really, all those pre-grouping PO wagons Hornby churn out are "generic" so brakevans would be a logical extension. SECR modellers in particular have all the ingredients (assuming they're willing to do a bit of renumbering) to do an RTR layout, except the brakevan.

 

Unfortunately if an accurate SECR brakevan were produced, it would inevitably be the Dancehall type, which, like Hornby's old LBSC van, is only suitable for post-1920 layouts. A generic, "period-literate" brakevan would look more accurate with pre-WW1 livery locomotives.

 

An pre-grouping brake van could be a great idea - it's one of the key items to being able to do any kind of pre-grouping modelling.

 

The trick would be not to fall into the trap Hornby have with their 'generic' Stroudley-ish coaches of producing something that's visually too specific to one railway to work as a 'generic' brake.

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Nile said:

And beaten to market by the Hornby LSWR brake van, hmmm. Although they still haven't got the colour quite right.

 

...and Bachmann did a Midland brake van a few years back, albeit it's another late one from immediately before the grouping- their MR/LMS van is the late Midland design that carried over into LMS production (D1658/9 IIRC) .

 

 

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Some pictures of R40080 4 Wheel Brake/Baggage Coach in BR Livery. Lovely little model, copes well with 1st radius curves around my snowy 'Christmas Tree' layout, which while not something I'll use this carriage for (will become part of my parcels trains stock), a couple of LBSCR livered carriages with lights to run behind Stepney will look lovely under the tree next year.

IMG_20210118_123316.jpeg.02c292aa48e064ef33fc9f29a8ac146b.jpeg

IMG_20210118_123200.jpeg.fdd7b51d5bff36e121834148f9d75011.jpegIMG_20210118_123103.jpeg.32f13516c0c29577005bc0243a1142b5.jpegIMG_20210118_123036.jpeg.e194800826206fa5579142640b4fe2a3.jpeg

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37 minutes ago, Invicta said:

 

...and Bachmann did a Midland brake van a few years back, albeit it's another late one from immediately before the grouping- their MR/LMS van is the late Midland design that carried over into LMS production (D1658/9 IIRC) .

 

 

I believe that the non-ducketed version was also supplied to the S & DJR and ran in their livery.

Ray

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15 hours ago, nathan70000 said:

Unfortunately, the LBSC brakevan that Hornby have done only entered service in around 1921, I think, so only really useful if you're modelling the very end of the pre-grouping period.

 

The idea of generic brakevans probably isn't a bad one- there were several companies that used very similar designs. I think the SECR and the Midland definitely had identical brakevans and there was a WD/ROD design that was used by a number of companies. Perhaps a generic underframe with two body styles would give you brakevans for the GN, LNWR, SECR, LBSCR and the Midland? Really, all those pre-grouping PO wagons Hornby churn out are "generic" so brakevans would be a logical extension. SECR modellers in particular have all the ingredients (assuming they're willing to do a bit of renumbering) to do an RTR layout, except the brakevan.

 

Unfortunately if an accurate SECR brakevan were produced, it would inevitably be the Dancehall type, which, like Hornby's old LBSC van, is only suitable for post-1920 layouts. A generic, "period-literate" brakevan would look more accurate with pre-WW1 livery locomotives.

The Midland and SER  had virtually identical single verandaed six wheeled brakes. The SE & CR re-built theirs and built new ones with verandas at both ends. (Slight difference to the end detail on one end on the re-built ones).

So these could be genuinely be liveried in : MR, SER, SE & CR, LMS, SR and BR liveries, and possibly others ?

So not a bad start.

Ray

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21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Funnily enough they've had a reasonably accurate LBSC brake van since about 1980 with nothing to go with it since the E2 went.

 

image.png.ce0dd171ed7e10076ce13e0afedb6a72.png

 

Still available.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/250918/hornby_r6802_10_ton_brake_van_55891_in_southern_railway_brown/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Not 100% accurate and a bit dated, but would surely do for anyone using these coaches.

 

 

Jason

This model could be substantially improved with a new redesigned chassis that does not require all the clip holes visible on the body, plus much reduced sized running boards, glazing in the side windows and NEM mounted couplings. A whole new life for an old model. How about it Hornby ?

Ray

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27 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

new redesigned chassis that does not require all the clip holes visible on the body, plus much reduced sized running boards, glazing in the side windows and NEM mounted couplings

So that's a whole new tooling then, which is hardly breathing life into an old model! :-)

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1 hour ago, wainwright1 said:

The Midland and SER  had virtually identical single verandaed six wheeled brakes. The SE & CR re-built theirs and built new ones with verandas at both ends. (Slight difference to the end detail on one end on the re-built ones).

So these could be genuinely be liveried in : MR, SER, SE & CR, LMS, SR and BR liveries, and possibly others ?

So not a bad start.

Ray

 I will cheerfully confess that I have taken one of the new Hornby LSWR brakes and repainted and lettered it as a Caledonian Railway Diagram 45 brake. The side windows had to go and there are other minor imperfections but apart from the fact that its overscale by a couple of millimetres its a very easy bodge.

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3 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

 I will cheerfully confess that I have taken one of the new Hornby LSWR brakes and repainted and lettered it as a Caledonian Railway Diagram 45 brake. The side windows had to go and there are other minor imperfections but apart from the fact that its overscale by a couple of millimetres its a very easy bodge.

Keep up the good work.

Ray

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26 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

 I will cheerfully confess that I have taken one of the new Hornby LSWR brakes and repainted and lettered it as a Caledonian Railway Diagram 45 brake. The side windows had to go and there are other minor imperfections but apart from the fact that its overscale by a couple of millimetres its a very easy bodge.

 

Photo please!

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So, I've gotten a pair, a six-week third and a four wheel brake!

 

My first thoughts is that is not a "Railroad" quality product, it's good quality and quite good value for money. The four wheel brake in particular is a very useful little piece of rolling stock, good for variety on parcels/express van trains as well as tiny branch line freights. It is obviously Stroudley-esque, but in truth I'm not too fussed as long as the quality of decoration and construction is high, and it's certainly better than I could do.

 

The six-wheel third is similarly nicely decorated, but I did notice a little bit of black over spray near the ends. Not enough to make me return it, but this seems to be a recurring problem with recent Hornby products. I'd also advise people getting the lighted ones to be VERY CAREFUL removing the little white paper tab- it wouldn't budge on mine and I was worried I was going to break the coach.

 

The lighting itself is bright and consistent, but- and it's a big but- it actually shines through the thin plastic on the body sides, which isn't a great look. It runs well and it just about gets through first radius curves okay, but the downside is the rather high amount of drag. I think Hatton's solution to the six-wheeler problem is probably a little bit more elegant, and I'd be interested to see how a little locomotive like a Terrier or a Peckett handles a full rake of six wheelers when confronted with even a slight gradient.

 

Overall I'd say 7/10. Good value for money, the six wheeler runs okay but not as well as it could have done, and the lighting solution probably makes more sense than Hatton's, even if it is a little too bright.

 

That being said, if these are good value for money, then the Hattons ones at almost the same price are spectacular value for money, and whilst I'll definitely complete my crimson rake with Hornby generics, I'll probably have an LNER rake from Hattons.

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4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I plump for the Isle of Man 'Caledonia' -  It would make a nice little generic 0-6-0T so kill several birds with one brickbat.  Choice of several liveries, an 0-6-0 chassis suitably gauged for either 16.6mm or 12mm track gauge plus a couple of bogie coaches but ideal for generic coaches with reduced gauge wheelsets.  I think I'll suggest it to Rails or Hattons and sit back waiting for the 2022 or '23 Hornby catalogue offering a 16.5mm gauge version or maybe even a 12mm gauge version along with suitable track as well of course

Suggest a 2721 to modern standards and a Diagram N auto trailer for me while you're at it, Mike; I could do with both those items, and a TVR twin auto set as well...  Preferably Rails, as I reckon Hornby will be more keen to gazump them than Hattons.

Edited by The Johnster
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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Photo please!

944822337_Dia45.jpg.476e687a676a8ec485b039635a2c82ea.jpg

 

No, its not a Diagram 45 Caledonian brake, and the Bachmann five-plank next door isn't a real Caley wagon, but they both resemble the prototype well enough for me to run a convincing Caledonian layout until I find the patience and develop the skill to gradually replace them with better ones.

 

Similarly, I'm aware of the "shortcomings" of the generic Hornby NBR six wheelers but they will do fine until and unless something better comes along and in the meantime are infinitely better than sitting in an armchair running layouts in my head

Edited by Caledonian
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21 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

944822337_Dia45.jpg.476e687a676a8ec485b039635a2c82ea.jpg

 

No, its not a Diagram 45 Caledonian brake, and the Bachmann five-plank next door isn't a real Caley wagon, but they both resemble the prototype well enough for me to run a convincing Caledonian layout until I find the patience and develop the skill to gradually replace them with better ones.

 

Looks good to me!

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3 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

The Midland and SER  had virtually identical single verandaed six wheeled brakes. The SE & CR re-built theirs and built new ones with verandas at both ends. (Slight difference to the end detail on one end on the re-built ones).

So these could be genuinely be liveried in : MR, SER, SE & CR, LMS, SR and BR liveries, and possibly others ?

So not a bad start.

Ray

 

One of the smaller Midland 4-wheelers to the similar pattern (as per the Slater's kit) ended up on the Isle of Wight as Isle of Wight Central Railway No.5 and survived long enough to wear SR colours at least- both guises are lllustrated in the Essery Midland Wagons books (vol 2 p 91)

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4 minutes ago, Invicta said:

One of the smaller Midland 4-wheelers to the similar pattern (as per the Slater's kit) ended up on the Isle of Wight as Isle of Wight Central Railway No.5 and survived long enough to wear SR colours at least- both guises are lllustrated in the Essery Midland Wagons books (vol 2 p 91)

 

Also to the Wemyss Railway in Fife and the WC&PR. In the early years of the 20th century there was a bit of a second-hand market going in Midland rolling stock of the 1880s - a number of light railways (and even some rather respectable small companies) bought old carriages too, which frequently retained their Midland livery.

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Maybe someday these coaches might appear as a circus train, including a caboose, and elephant in the room and a giraffe car. There could be the driver as the invisble man, and room for those 100 HO painted figures for £3,99 on ebay, whom all seem to wear  green and orange suits and hats, that no one in the real world ever wears.

 

Generic coaches, its steam punk for the mature person.

 

Edited by adb968008
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22 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Maybe someday these coaches might appear as a circus train, including a caboose, and elephant in the room and a giraffe car. There could be the driver as the invisble man, and room for those 100 HO painted figures for £3,99 on ebay, whom all seem to wear  green and orange suits and hats, that no one in the real world ever wears.

 

Generic coaches, its steam punk for the mature person.

 

 

Since steampunk is Victorian, that could be another angle for the tooling ultimately, though probably 6 wheelers.

 

How about a train pack for Sherlock Holmes' special in pursuit of Moriarty....

 

The GC's Barnum stock was actually developed from a circus train - hence the name...

Edited by Ravenser
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On 14/01/2021 at 15:21, melmerby said:

I wonder whether the "switch" for the lighting on the coaches could be mounted low down.

In which case you could have a under track magnet (maybe an switchable electro magnet?) located at the entrance/exit of storage roads.

As the rake of coaches leaves each one is switched on in turn.

As it returns each one is switched back off.

 

An alternative could be something above the track that they pass under if you use magnets for uncoupling purposes.

(maybe on the underside of an overbridge?)

Received my 4 wheel one from Derails - answer to either of the above seems to be no; the reed swith triggers twice as the vehicle passes under the magnet held above it. Edit;as noted below it does work with the magnet side above

Edited by Butler Henderson
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