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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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Well, I have only dipped into these pages every so often, and this issue must surely already have been mentioned - BUFFER HEADS.

I watched Jennifer Kirk's review and frankly couldn't believe what I was seeing in this regard.  A concave-headed buffer.  What on earth were Hornby thinking!

Maybe the sample they sent to Jenny was in some ways "pre-production", but talk about crude and toy-like.  But I don't think it was pre-production, as I've since viewed the videos of examples others have received.

It beggars belief..

Edited by Tony Burgess
subsequent viewing of other examples
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I was equally dumbfounded, Tony, but apparently these are correct for some Victorian stock on some railways.  They were  intended to improve the crash resistance of stock in minor accidents by preventing buffers overriding and the coaches telescoping.  The idea was to have them on alternate corner so that the ‘normal’ buffers’ domed head on the adjacent vehicle ‘fitted’ in to the concave, and became less likely to override the more pressure they were subjected to.  
 

Further proof, as if slip coaches and TPO pick up were not enough, that Victorian railways were bonkers.  At least they are easily replaced!

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1 hour ago, Tony Burgess said:

and this issue must surely already have been mentioned

It has, and Hornby has tried to explain:

They don't look concave to me.

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On 21/01/2021 at 12:38, Butler Henderson said:

Those photos show what clanger Hornby have made by making a very uncommon brake end generic.  The offering would have been better if at least the brakes in particular were correct for the LBSC.

 

Not for me. I am modelling the K&ESR  up to 1930 and all their 4 &6 wheel brake thirds (purchased from both the GER and LSWR) had the duckets on the end.

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6 hours ago, Nile said:

No, one of many details lacking on these.

I'll agree that train alarm gear is missing if these are to be generic carriages - once again an LBSC quirk was the use of the electric "Stroudley Rusbridge Communicator", patented in the 1870s, and operated by pulling a knob in the compartment. It would ring a bell on the locomotive, and also in the guard's van. Powered by batteries in the guard's van (I believe - I'm away from my reference books at the moment!) there were also single-stroke bell codes for communication between locomotive crew and guard. The knob, once pulled, could not be pushed back in and reset (stopping the bell from ringing in the guard's van) without a key, possessed by the guard, so the compartment in question could be identified, albeit not as easily as the later standard with flags at the end of the carriage.

Edited by Skinnylinny
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2 hours ago, Nile said:

It's not so much the position of the duckets, but the arrangment of the windows on the end that make these so LBSCR.

They also have a Caledonian look with the end window arrangement. Diagram 3 Brake Third 4 wheel coach on the right, in Glasgow Central on a Cathcart Circle train.

 

Brian.

40470621-E0B9-4797-B705-203F41227A77.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Love the water column at the end of the platform!

 

Somebody did a time and motion study - give the crew of an arriving loco something to do while waiting for their train to clear the platform.

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Somebody did a time and motion study - give the crew of an arriving loco something to do while waiting for their train to clear the platform.

 

Not always: Many is the time I've had to dive for a water column.....

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Some formations seen in photographs in LBSC days that could be represented using these carriages:
 

Terrier Poplar at Selsdon Road:
Terrier - D45 Brake Third - D41 1st/2nd Composite - D45 Brake Third (3 Carriages)


D1 0-4-2t Wandsworth, unknown location:
D1 - D44 Third - D74 6-wheel Third (higher roofline, but could be swapped for another 4-wheel D44) - D41 1st/2nd Composite - D47 Full Brake (4 Carriages - unusual as the LBSC usually had a brake compartment at each end of a train)
 

Terrier Preston:
Terrier - D47 Full Brake - D44 Third - D41 1st/2nd Composite - D45 Brake Third (4 Carriages) (Epsom Downs set train?)
 

Terrier Gipsyhill at Bognor:
Terrier - D47 Full Brake - D44 Third - D44 Third - D41 1st/2nd Composite - D41 1st/2nd Composite - D44 Third - D47 Full Brake (7 carriages)

Hopefully these may be useful for those trying to come up with plausible rakes. 

Edited by Skinnylinny
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Has anyone experienced any problems with the lighting in these coaches?

 

I've just taken delivery of my first 6-wheel coach (R40124A BR Crimson).   After a brief testing of the lights, all appeared OK.   I took the coach up to the layout for a run,  and noticed that the lights keep turning themselves on and off while in motion.     When the coach is static, (eg, in a siding) then they seem to stay on OK.   But as soon as the coach is moving behind a loco,  the lights turn off after about 5-10 seconds, and then randomly turn on and off by themselves. 

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9 minutes ago, DrStroganoff said:

Has anyone experienced any problems with the lighting in these coaches?

 

I've just taken delivery of my first 6-wheel coach (R40124A BR Crimson).   After a brief testing of the lights, all appeared OK.   I took the coach up to the layout for a run,  and noticed that the lights keep turning themselves on and off while in motion.     When the coach is static, (eg, in a siding) then they seem to stay on OK.   But as soon as the coach is moving behind a loco,  the lights turn off after about 5-10 seconds, and then randomly turn on and off by themselves. 

Are they switching in the same place each time? Might be something on the layout causing a magnetic field? 

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17 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Could it be a dodgey solder connection on the wire to/from the battery or Reed switch? 

 

12 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Or just the battery contact needs cleaning or is loose?

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Just done a bit more testing.   It's not happening in the exact same place each time.  It does seem to be random.    Also, I use the term 'layout' loosely,  at the moment is just track laid on an ikea desk.  There's nothing else around to interfere with the magnetic field (afaik).

 

Oddly,  it only seems to be doing it when running with my Bachmann Dukedog (which runs like a bit of a dog).   When coupled to my Bachmann Class 08 (smooth runner), lights stayed on.

 

I've just left the coach static, with the lights on for 30 mins and they stayed on.   I also gave the coach a gentle 'shake' to see if it affected the lights,  but they stayed on OK.

 

I think next step is to open it up, and investigate the battery connections etc.  

 

Thanks again for the suggestions.    

 

 

 

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Is it every coach or just one with the issue?

 

edit : sorry just reread and it’s your only coach.....I would guess it’s a dirty connection, first thing I’d clean the battery surfaces.

Edited by boxbrownie
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If it's a stray magnetic field, I'd expect that the lights might turn on if they were originally turned off (I.e. using the magnet supplied) — have you tried this? I wouldn’t have thought bad contacts could make them turn on in such circumstances.

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On 25/01/2021 at 11:50, The Johnster said:

I was equally dumbfounded, Tony, but apparently these are correct for some Victorian stock on some railways.  They were  intended to improve the crash resistance of stock in minor accidents by preventing buffers overriding and the coaches telescoping.  The idea was to have them on alternate corner so that the ‘normal’ buffers’ domed head on the adjacent vehicle ‘fitted’ in to the concave, and became less likely to override the more pressure they were subjected to.  
 

Further proof, as if slip coaches and TPO pick up were not enough, that Victorian railways were bonkers.  At least they are easily replaced!

Returning to this, I have never heard of concave buffers being fitted.  The only anti-override/anti-buffer-locking provision I've ever seen described on short wb carriages involved alternating convex and flat-headed buffers.  From the earlier posting where Hornby tried to explain the convex buffers, I'm pretty sure that Hornby's designers have misinterpreted the way light is falling on the flat buffer heads in the photo. 

 

If they were in a hurry to get these to market, it's a detail that they might well have omitted to check in the the rush - but that can't be right, because Hornby weren't in any way trying to rush these to market in order to stymie...someone else, were they?  ;-)

 

 However, if someone has a photo of the carriages that Hornby apparently measured up having concave buffers then I'll stand corrected.  Or any other unambiguous documentary or photographic evidence - I'd really like to know.

 

Richard T

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49 minutes ago, RichardT said:

 if someone has a photo of the carriages that Hornby apparently measured up having concave buffers then I'll stand corrected.  Or any other unambiguous documentary or photographic evidence - I'd really like to know.

 

I'm sure no-one does, but as I explained earlier in the thread, I do have drawings of the buffers they have tried to match (as per the photo they provided via Jenny Kirk), and the drawings, much like the photo, show them with flat heads

Edited by BlueLightning
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2 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

I'm sure no-one does, but as I explained earlier in the thread, I do have drawings of the buffers they have tried to match (as per the photo they provided via Jenny Kirk, and the drawings, much like the photo, show them with flat heads

 

But even this is a feature specific to the Stroudley carriages, as far as I'm aware, and not at all common (though not unknown) elsewhere. I would also question whether carriages equipped with such flat buffers when built retained them throughout their lives.

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The buffers were replaced by a different but very similar type in the 1880s/1890s which still had a flat head, so I expect they stayed that way until scrapping, but yes not a very common feature, which I still say is because Hornby haven't made generic carriages at all.

 

Gary

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