Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[Nick Holliday]

4 hours ago, SHMD said:

 

..no but the guards duties then were very much more busy than now (ok different).

 

Then the guard was in charge of all the merchandise, on and off the train, as well as safety.

A lot of "everything" was loaded and unload en-route and he had to not only ensure the correct delivery but also all the paperwork too.

 

Every parcel, box, crate, milk churn, etc had to be labelled and legible even at night.

 

Kev.

But surely every guard had his own lantern, primarily for signalling purposes, but probably bright  enough to let him read labels etc.  After all, Victorians seemed to be able to read the tiny print in books and produce amazing sewing, all by candlelight.

[Butler Henderson]

The mounts exist on the inside of the roof for the light strip; maybe the lack of detail beyond the wheel was the reason for deciding not to offer them lit. Clearly Hornby believe such had lights given the roof fittings, two gas lamp tops on the GW one for example.

Suggest there is scope  for someone to offer an interior detail kit.

 

[SHMD]

3 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

But surely every guard had his own lantern, primarily for signalling purposes, but probably bright  enough to let him read labels etc.  After all, Victorians seemed to be able to read the tiny print in books and produce amazing sewing, all by candlelight.

 

I don't know but the models do have the different kinds of lights moulded in the roofs!

 

 

Kev.

[BernardTPM]

Labelling would have to be done before loading, of course.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Clearly Hornby believe such had lights given the roof fittings, two gas lamp tops on the GW one for example.

 

A correct belief. Typically on for the guard's section and then one or two for the parcels/luggage area, depending on the layout of the vehicle (guard's compartment at one end or in the middle). Luggage compartments in non-brake carriages were in general without lamps.

[Butler Henderson]

The GW baggage brake and the LBSC 1st have came under attention to make them operationally preserved. The former just a dynamo (support depth reduced) and vacuum cylinder (of appropriate depth) from the spares box on the basis any battery has been put inside. More comprehensive work on the LBSC 1st; in comparison to the LCDR 3rd fitted the Comet battery box first this time and then the V hangers. Those have be trimmed in height to fit the shallow chassis depth, similarly the Comet vacuum cylinder and dynamo (think this is a Caley Coaches one) had to reduced in height. Footboards again glued to the inside bottom of the solebars.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Butler Henderson

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

The mounts exist on the inside of the roof for the light strip; maybe the lack of detail beyond the wheel was the reason for deciding not to offer them lit. Clearly Hornby believe such had lights given the roof fittings, two gas lamp tops on the GW one for example.

Suggest there is scope  for someone to offer an interior detail kit.

 

Along with just about every RTR brake van ever made!

 

I did a full interior, for the hell of it, on an LNER pigeon van not so long ago.  Not difficult; card seats, cabinets, draught screens, brake standard from the scrap box, card shelves, wire vac pipe with a trimmed  staple as the setter handle, good clean old fashioned modelling fun!  Particularly proud of the vacuum gauge, plastic rod shoved into a cotton bud tube stick, rod painted white and outer tube brass and cut into a slice.  Pointless of course, very difficult to see most of it, but if I were to put lights in much of it would be visible through the toplight windows...

Edited February 14, 2021 by The Johnster

[Robin Brasher]

You will be pleased to read that my rake of London, Brighton and South Coast Railway rake of Hornby 4 wheel coaches has arrived from Kernow.  I had to use a pair of pliers to pull out the tape to activate the lights. A couple of advantages of battery operated lights on an analogue layout is that the batteries add weight in the right place and the lights stay on when the train has stopped.  They also provide something for my Bachmann E4 to pull.

[Bulleidboy100]

I am sorely tempted, as I have the same Bachmann E4 (in fact two - one is BR - two sets of coaches required!!).  I don't think the Swanage line has any ideally placed tunnels or bridges(?) (beginning or end of layout), but on "Wykeham" the fiddle yard exits straight into a tunnel (scenic break). I have placed a magnet behind the tunnel portal (dead centre - single track exit), and I have an old Bachmann Bulleid Brake into which I have fitted lights that are magnet operated. The coach exits the fiddle yard with the lights out, and exits the tunnel at the other end with the lights on, and the opposite on return. You can of course still wave a magnet over the carriage to turn them off/on should the need arise.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Bulleidboy100

[Butler Henderson]

3 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

A couple of advantages of battery operated lights on an analogue layout is that the batteries add weight in the right place and the lights stay on when the train has stopped.  

Theres a near full length weight on top of the chassis so I doubt the battery and its mount contribute greatly to the models running abilities.

[Butler Henderson]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Along with just about every RTR brake van ever made!

 

I did a full interior, for the hell of it, on an LNER pigeon van not so long ago.  Not difficult; card seats, cabinets, draught screens, brake standard from the scrap box, card shelves, wire vac pipe with a trimmed  staple as the setter handle, good clean old fashioned modelling fun!  Particularly proud of the vacuum gauge, plastic rod shoved into a cotton bud tube stick, rod painted white and outer tube brass and cut into a slice.  Pointless of course, very difficult to see most of it, but if I were to put lights in much of it would be visible through the toplight windows...

Any photo? Obviously the interior of these will be pretty visible if lit given the end windows which is why I was thinking that a third party supplier might come up with something of an appropriate quality more so than your run of the  mill brake vehicle. Same with someone coming up with a set of proper footboards that fit in place as per Hornbys - I did try to adjust the one of the supplied ones but but  it would not slot in properly in the mounts or became too weak  so that ended up as a glued on solebar one. on the LBSC 1st, while the GW Taff Vale(ish) baggage brake still retains the supplied suicide footboards; have improved its appearance no end IMO by removing the curvy doorside handrails  while one side has acquired a paper Cardiff Q St label.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Any photo?

Back a few pages in my 'South Wales in the 1950s' Cwmdimbath layout thread. 

[tender]

Can someone supply the overall length of these coaches. I'm buying a few of the LSWR livery to go with my LSWR Livery T9,M7 and Terrier. These will spend most of their lives in a display cabinet, but just want to know how many I can get in behind a loco.

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, tender said:

Can someone supply the overall length of these coaches. I'm buying a few of the LSWR livery to go with my LSWR Livery T9,M7 and Terrier. These will spend most of their lives in a display cabinet, but just want to know how many I can get in behind a loco.

The 4 wheel ones are 116mm over buffers

[Butler Henderson]

And according to the catalogue they are 135mm which presumably includes the couplings; the six wheelers are given as 160mm so presumably c 141mm over buffers

[Guest]

The two North British six wheelers arrived from Jadlams at the weekend, and I am very pleased with them. They are both very well finished, and the Maroon colour will sit very nicely on my (still being built) KESR layout, hopefully the NBR logo and crest can be easily removed, but if not I may leave them as they are. I realise these are "generic" coaches and neither probobly reflects exactly anything that ran on the KESR , but  they do look very similar to the very few photos of the ex-LSWR six wheelers, which the KESR purchased in 1910/1911. They are certainly close enough for me. One thing that will need to be attended to is the guard's end of the Brake Third which is painted a dull red, this may be NBR prototypical, but looks wrong for the KESR, who painted their coaches the same colour all over.

 

There is just one issue which may be a problem, relating to the location of the wheelsets. The four wheelers have pinpoint type bearings for the axles, but on the six wheelers they sit in tubular housings, which allow the axles to move sideways. Sideways movement for central axle is substantial and obviously designed to accomodate sharp radius curves, but the two end ones also have significant sideways movement, which seems uneccessary, and could cause the coaches to float about, especially if replacement three link couplings are installed. I have yet to try dismantling the coaches, but am hoping that the existing end wheelsets can be removed, and replaced with pinpoints, if not some sort of bushing may be neccessary to limit sideways movement. the following photos have been screen shot from an online review, and illustrate the issue:-

 

 

 

 

                  

 

                                  End Wheelset                                                         Centre Wheelset

 

                                 

                                                                 

 

                                  

                                              

Edited February 15, 2021 by Guest

[aaron3820]

Some styrene mounted to the sides of the retainers for the wheels might help to reduce lateral movement 

[Fireline]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

The two North British six wheelers arrived from Jadlams at the weekend, and I am very pleased with them. They are both very well finished, and the Maroon colour will sit very nicely on my (still being built) KESR layout, hopefully the NBR logo and crest can be easily removed, but if not I may leave them as they are. I realise these are "generic" coaches and neither probobly reflects exactly anything that ran on the KESR , but  they do look very similar to the very few photos of the LSWR six wheelers, which the KESR purchased in 1910/1911. They are certainly close enough for me. One thing that will need to be attended to is the guard's end of the Brake Third which is painted a dull red, this may be NBR prototypical, but looks wrong for the KESR, who painted their coaches the same colour all over.

 

There is just one issue which may be a problem, relating to the location of the wheelsets. The four wheelers have pinpoint type bearings for the axles, but on the six wheelers they sit in tubular housings, which allow the axles to move sideways. Sideways movement for central axle is substantial and obviously designed to accomodate sharp radius curves, but the two end ones also have significant sideways movement, which seems uneccessary, and could cause the coaches to float about, especially if replacement three link couplings are installed. I have yet to try dismantling the coaches, but am hoping that the existing end wheelsets can be removed, and replaced with pinpoints, if not some sort of bushing may be neccessary to limit sideways movement. the following photos have been screen shot from an online review, and illustrate the issue:-

 

 

 

 

                  

 

                                  End Wheelset                                                         Centre Wheelset

 

                                 

                                                                 

 

                                  

                                              

I would have thought, if you were modelling the KESR and all the sharp curves that entails, you'd want all the side float you could get!

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

And according to the catalogue they are 135mm which presumably includes the couplings; the six wheelers are given as 160mm so presumably c 141mm over buffers

 

I have just put my Vernier over the buffers on a six wheel Brake Third and the length is a tad over 139mm.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Fireline said:

I would have thought, if you were modelling the KESR and all the sharp curves that entails, you'd want all the side float you could get!

 

Even the KESR was not that windy, the smallest radius on my layout is 30".

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

2 hours ago, aaron3820 said:

Some styrene mounted to the sides of the retainers for the wheels might help to reduce lateral movement 

 

I have just examined the chassis, and there is no provision on the axle boxes for pinpoint bearings, but the flat inside surface would make it quite easy to glue a slip of styrene to each of them to reduce the sideplay.

[The Johnster]

The 'pointless' axles are a throwback to the design clever era, when they featured on the Southern BY and LNER long CCT models (and probably others but I have these two).  The BY is a fine runner but I've had nothing but trouble with the CCT; derailments, buffer locking, couplings overriding, wheelsets refusing to run freely, and have withdrawn if from service pending replacement with a Parkside one, or at least the Hornby body on a Parky chassis.  Drilling recesses for bearings to replace these axles with pointed end ones is not an option as one cannot get a square angle on the drill because of the axlebox detail on the opposite side; design not very clever if you have to replace the wheelsets.  Hope Hattons' 6 wheelers aren't like this!

 

Glueing stryene to the flat inside surface of the axleboxes will control sideplay, but act as a brake on the wheel face; I would mount and glue a short length slit plastic tube over the axle between the rear face of the wheel and the carrying tube to control sideplay.  Haven't tried it, but the tubes that hold cotton buds are probably about the right size!  Cut several sizes and try them 'cold' before you glue the one that allows the correct sideplay for your purposes, not forgetting that the same size must be tried on both ends of the axle or your coach will run 'off centre'.  Let the centre axle have as much sideplay as it has as supplied, it's the outer axles that you need to control, but ensure that the centre wheelset's back to backs are spot on to avoid trouble at turnouts.

[Londontram]

Hello all sorry if this has been asked or discussed before but to save me trawling through 50 plus pages on this thread can anyone tell me if Hornby intend introducing a set in Caledonian livery in any future phases.

  Looking at both this and the upcoming range from the alternative supplier it would appear that most of the Hornby ones even though a generic besign bare a closer resemblance to some Caley prototypes than the operations range will. The 6 wheel brake third is certainly one example.

 But dare I say the alternative suppliers 6 wheel full brake better represents a Caley type than does the Hornby full brake.

 So is anyone awear as to if the Caley livery is planed for the future?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Londontram

[Pre Grouping fan]

3 minutes ago, Londontram said:

Hello all sorry if this has been asked or discussed before but to save me trawling through 50 plus pages on this thread can anyone tell me if Hornby intend introducing a set in Caledonian livery in any future phases.

  Looking at both this and the upcoming range from the alternative supplier it would appear that most of the Hornby ones even though a generic besign bare a closer resemblance to some Caley prototypes than the operations range will. The 6 wheel brake third is certainly one example.

 But dare I say the alternative suppliers 6 wheel full brake better represents a Caley type than does the Hornby full brake.

 So is anyone awear as to if the Caley livery is planed for the future?

 

I've read people say elsewhere that the LNWR livery offered in the first run is very close to Caledonian livery, how true that is I don't know. 

 

Nothing has been announced other than the current liveries so might be worth an email to them to make them aware of it.

[Chris116]

18 minutes ago, Londontram said:

Hello all sorry if this has been asked or discussed before but to save me trawling through 50 plus pages on this thread can anyone tell me if Hornby intend introducing a set in Caledonian livery in any future phases.

  Looking at both this and the upcoming range from the alternative supplier it would appear that most of the Hornby ones even though a generic besign bare a closer resemblance to some Caley prototypes than the operations range will. The 6 wheel brake third is certainly one example.

 But dare I say the alternative suppliers 6 wheel full brake better represents a Caley type than does the Hornby full brake.

 So is anyone awear as to if the Caley livery is planed for the future?

Hattons say that Caledonian livery is due in batch 3 of their Genesis stock.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Chris116