Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[stephennicholson]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yes

 

EDIT: The brake thirds appear to have them on the right-hand door, angled away from the left-hand door.

 

The left hand handle is mounted on the side of the ducket.

I can see that now, I should have paid more attention to the photo I was following, rather than where I removed the Hornby ones.

[Edwardian]

The Re-Stroudleyfication of the Hornby non-generics continues slowly, but so far, so good.

 

 

It will be worth it as, thanks to Hattons, I should be able to add a couple of good matches for Billinton 6-wheelers to form a non-uniform mainline rake. The Hattons livery samples released today look superb.

 

Lovely Mansell wheels, nice separate lamp irons and steps and a correctly positioned lower footboards, and (hurray) bolections, they look to be rather superior generics. The only feature I don't like is the rather weedy coupling hook, but I'd replace that anyway.  For me me, the interest lies in how close they are to a Billinton 6-wheel lav. comp and an all second. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Edwardian
numeracy

[sem34090]

3 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

.

A very thought-provoking post!

Edited April 7, 2021 by sem34090

[Bucoops]

46 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

A very thought-provoking post!

 

Well it's to the point?

[The Johnster]

I agree with it completely, I think...

[Hroth]

Magisterially put!

 

[Edwardian]

Generic Pre-Grouping locomotives .... it was only a matter of time.

 

 

"What are you going to do now you've lost the franchise, Thomas?" asked the Fat Controller sternly.

 

"Take the p1ss", replied Thomas.

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Generic Pre-Grouping locomotives .... it was only a matter of time.

 

 

"What are you going to do now you've lost the franchise, Thomas?" asked the Fat Controller sternly.

 

"Take the p1ss", replied Thomas.

 

Well, its  a failed regeneration back to an E2, and its cheaper than a Terrier...

 

No one has to buy one!

 

 

 

[sem34090]

Seems that someone at Hornby saw this and thought it was a good idea;

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

Seems that someone at Hornby saw this and thought it was a good idea;

 

Why, it's almost as if Hornby has copied someone else's product idea.  Fancy that.

[The Johnster]

Wow!  A 1970s model, and a poor one at that, at a 2020s price, half a century of progress, not even the later front axle drive version of that generic chassis, and no attempt to polish/gild the lily/t*urd by attempting the very attractive SECR Wainright livery.   It’s almost as if H were trying to get rid of a pile of moribund stock at an inflated price...

 

If you were seriously trying to turn out a generic pre-grouping 0-6-0 tank, and there were plenty of fairly similar ones, points to avoid would be anything distinctive to one class on one railway such as, oh, I don’t know, the sort of unique and individual running plate on a Brighton E2, for example.   And you’d avoid a side window cab or anything like that.  

 

We’re probably going to have deries of these failed Thomases in every livery except Marsh Brighton brown.  Landfill.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by The Johnster

[Hroth]

35 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

We’re probably going to have deries of these failed Thomases in every livery except Marsh Brighton brown.  Landfill.  

 

It doesn't really worry me, its about time Hornby did some nonsense "generic" 0-6-0 locos to offset their fleet of imaginary starter 0-4-0s.

 

I can see it appearing in a neat little train pack, or set with an oval of track, accompanied by a couple of the new generic 4 or 6 wheelers.  The only other "Thomas" retread I can imagine would be James as some kind of wonky 2-6-0 in Midland Red. Anything else has currrent or recent ordinary Railroad counterparts, Edward, for example, is merely their "Shire" without cylinders and valvegear and consequently a gaping hole between bogie and drivers...

 

 

 

[Mark Dickerson]

Best not mention the Highland Railway livery on the Caledonian Pug about 20 years back, then.

 

People will buy it, just as they'll buy the UK-liveried Electrotren HO 0-6-0Ts. Not what I want either, but if it can give me a cheapish (modern) chassis and perhaps a body for conversion, so be it.

[HonestTom]

29 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

It doesn't really worry me, its about time Hornby did some nonsense "generic" 0-6-0 locos to offset their fleet of imaginary starter 0-4-0s.

 

I can see it appearing in a neat little train pack, or set with an oval of track, accompanied by a couple of the new generic 4 or 6 wheelers.  The only other "Thomas" retread I can imagine would be James as some kind of wonky 2-6-0 in Midland Red. Anything else has currrent or recent ordinary Railroad counterparts, Edward, for example, is merely their "Shire" without cylinders and valvegear and consequently a gaping hole between bogie and drivers...

 

 

 

I could see Bill/Ben selling as a somewhat oversized Bagnall. And the Duck model has a separately-fitted face, so it would be pretty easy to turn back into a 57xx.

[Edwardian]

8 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

the Duck model has a separately-fitted face, so it would be pretty easy to turn back into a 57xx.

 

You could ....

 

 

That takes me back to childhood. A reminder, perhaps, of why Airfix and Mainline were so important in the development of British outline RTR.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

If you were seriously trying to turn out a generic pre-grouping 0-6-0 tank, and there were plenty of fairly similar ones, points to avoid would be anything distinctive to one class on one railway

 

Of extant RTR 0-6-0Ts, the J72 is probably as close as it comes. Clean Worsdell lines, cab cut out style passable for Messrs. Adams, Parker, Sharps, etc.

[Nile]

They are being consistant here, taking a LBSCR design and sticking the wrong livery on it. But since they didn't make any SECR liveried coaches this year I fail to see any point at all in this livery choice. A re-issue of their GNR tanks would make more sense, if they have any left.

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, Mark Dickerson said:

Best not mention the Highland Railway livery on the Caledonian Pug about 20 years back, then.

 

People will buy it, just as they'll buy the UK-liveried Electrotren HO 0-6-0Ts. Not what I want either, but if it can give me a cheapish (modern) chassis and perhaps a body for conversion, so be it.

 

The Highland Rambler set in the current catalogue as a pug in a HR livery. 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, HonestTom said:

I could see Bill/Ben selling as a somewhat oversized Bagnall. And the Duck model has a separately-fitted face, so it would be pretty easy to turn back into a 57xx.

 

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

You could ....

 

 

That takes me back to childhood. A reminder, perhaps, of why Airfix and Mainline were so important in the development of British outline RTR.

 

The best thing about the Pannier is that the whole tank top assembly comes off, allowing easy recharging of the SynchroSmoke unit.

If you so wish...

 

[atom3624]

I remember the 'good old days', stinking out our house with the Pannier - and Winston Churchill - and the slippery rails afterwards!!

 

Al.

[PaulRhB]

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Robin Brasher]

I have just received a lovely book that includes pictures of pre-grouping coaches that ran in London and the South of England.  The pictures will be useful to compare with Hornby's pre-grouping coaches. The book includes the London and South Western Railway, the London, Brighton & South Coast Railway, the Metropolitan Railway and the Somerset & Dorset Railway.

[D9020 Nimbus]

20 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

What's the radius of the curved track in the top picture? And what track is it anyway? Looks like either Roco or Kato.

 

It does confirm my opinion that Kadee #19s are closest to the spacing of other couplers—this is the size that I generally need to fit on European stock to avoid buffer-locking on Fleischmann Profi-Track points.

[PaulRhB]

8 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

What's the radius of the curved track in the top picture? And what track is it anyway? Looks like either Roco or Kato.

 

It does confirm my opinion that Kadee #19s are closest to the spacing of other couplers—this is the size that I generally need to fit on European stock to avoid buffer-locking on Fleischmann Profi-Track points.

It’s Kato and it’s actually straight track and I just turned the coach. 
 

I’ve tried them on the 430mm radius, below, and they are tight buffer to buffer so might not run well with a load behind. They certainly won’t couple on that curve but the do run ok back and forth as a pair. I think you’d really want at least one longer kadee on one coach to go that tight. 

[Edwardian]

16 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I have just received a lovely book that includes pictures of pre-grouping coaches that ran in London and the South of England.  The pictures will be useful to compare with Hornby's pre-grouping coaches. The book includes the London and South Western Railway, the London, Brighton & South Coast Railway, the Metropolitan Railway and the Somerset & Dorset Railway.

 

For those considering re-liverying the Hornby generics, I have one word of caution; bolections.

 

I know this may seem a minor feature, but it is one that has a reasonably obvious visual impact.

 

Hornby's not-really-generics lack bolections, because they have been (IMHO lazily and inadequately) adapted from Stroudley designs without any understanding of Victorian carriage practice generally. Now Stroudley was rare, possibly effectively unique in the late Nineteenth Century, for not fitting bolections. This arose because Stroudley fitted fixed lights, such as quarter lights, from the inside, while his successor, Billinton, followed a practice long established at Derby and pretty universal elsewhere by fitting them from the outside and covering the edges with the moulding strips we call bolections.

 

Some while ago a gentleman displayed his Hornby generics repainted in S&DJR blue. A very good job he made of them too.  He was picked up for the fact that the S&DJR didn't have that particular type of coach. Now, not knowing anything about S&DJR coaches, I would not have noticed that. What leapt out at me was the lack of that signature varnished wood border to the windows, the bolection.

 

Below is a Billinton bogie first in Southern livery. It is pretty much the same as a Stroudley bogie first, except it has bolections. A key part of the appearance of this coach, even from a distance, is the mahogany window surrounds, the bolections to the fixed lights, contrasting with the green paintwork.  It is the absence of this feature against the nice Prussian blue of the S&DJR repaints that makes them, to my eyes, look wrong, rather than any discrepancy in the coach classification.

 

 

Now, Billinton's bolections are among the thinnest and most discrete I have seen.  The GNoSR example at Embsay is similarly understated.  Other companies had deeper, stepped, bolection mouldings.  Even Billinton's thin jobs are, I would suggest, a reasonably prominent part of the livery of the coach pictured. The lack of them on the Hornby model is, to my mind, very obvious on all but the Stroudley mahogany livery coaches (where, ironically, the absence of this feature is appropriate).

 

Take a preserved S&DJR vehicle.  The bolection mouldings are rather thicker than Billinton's,  Again, see how an absolutely a key part of its appearance is conferred by the contrasting varnished wood of the fixed light bolections, every bit as essential in that regard as the drop lights, against the blue paint work.

 

 

Note also in reference to both photographs that, unlike Hornby's treatment for some of its liveries, lining is typically not applied around fixed lights; the bolection provides the visual border.   

 

Conclusion? 

 

Well, for converting the Hornby near-Stroudley generics into something like proper Stroudleys, the lack of bolections is a boon.  For all other liveries and purposes, it's a pain. So much so, in fact, that if I am to get any use out of the GW-liveried 4-wheelers, I think I must try to retro-fit a thin shim around the fixed light apertures to represent bolections. 

 

That, plus the Stroudleyesque design cues, the various crudities noted and the need to fit vac brake gear and a lower foot board at a correct height, all make the Hornby coaches a much less attractive proposition for adaptation to freelance vehicles than their better conceived rival generics. 

 

Below, a LSWR example:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Edwardian