Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[Robin Brasher]

There are very few records of four and six wheel coaches on the London and South Western Railway except a Board of Trade report following a derailment of 19 June 1886 on the Swanage Railway which is mentioned on page 241 of Swanage 125 Years of Railways by B.L. Jackson. This train consisted of passenger guards van 260, 1st class coaches 338 and 373, 2nd class coach 119, 3rd class coach 319 and 3rd class brake 243.

 

The formation is similar to the coaches made by Hornby and Adams Radial Tanks could have been the motive power then. I ran this train at the Wimborne Railway Society meeting last night.  The members liked the coaches except for the luggage van and did not think that the lights were necessary.

[Ruston]

Does anyone know how these things come apart? I have some that I would like to take the glazing out whilst I weather them and possibly add some passengers to. I can't see any screws underneath, nor any obvious clips.

[Nick Holliday]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

Does anyone know how these things come apart? I have some that I would like to take the glazing out whilst I weather them and possibly add some passengers to. I can't see any screws underneath, nor any obvious clips.

The underframe should unclip from the body, which looks to be a one-piece moulding with the roof, using gentle pressure, minding the brake pipes at the ends.  The interior will fall out, whether the glazing is easily removed I leave to others to advise.

[Pre Grouping fan]

I found the glazing simple to remove, just slide a knife or other thin object between the body and glazing inside and it should release the glue joints holding the mouldings in. 

[Robin Brasher]

The arrival of a Hornby five coach rake of four-wheel LSWR coaches and the Kernow LSWR brake van has enabled me to run a balanced range of rolling stock with the PC and Hornby repainted bogie coaches and my collection of Wessex Wagons.

[Edwardian]

Having received the first of my Hattons Genesis coaches, I thought it might be interesting to compare them with the Hornby equivalent.

 

Here, then, is Hornby's take on a 5-compartment 4-wheel Third in GW livery with Hattons' take on the same.

 

The Hornby model represents a gas-lit model and is, apparently, air-braked(!) and its chosen commode handles are of a GW pattern.  The livery applied by Hornby is a simplified version of the GW 1890s-1900s livery. 

 

The Hattons model represents an oil-lit, vac-braked vehicle and represents the full GW carriage livery of the period.

 

Neither, of course, represents a GW prototype, both ranges are generic.  The Hornby coach scales out to a standard Stroudley length of 26', whereas the Hattons is at a more relaxed 27'6".

 

It's an interesting comparison, because apart from the difference in prototype lighting method, they are direct equivalents as generic coaches in a GW livery. In all cases where the models are side by side the Hornby model is on the left and the Hattons on the right:

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Edwardian
spelling

[woodenhead]

The Hornby coach is literally green with envy 😆

[Ribird]

And people tried to tell me I was crazy for saying the Hornby GWR coaches weren't brown because of different lighting conditions...

[Bucoops]

6 hours ago, Ribird said:

And people tried to tell me I was crazy for saying the Hornby GWR coaches weren't brown because of different lighting conditions...

 

Indeed. It was very obvious that they were green a long time ago, but some still insisted.

[Steamport Southport]

They're not though, so can we put this to bed?  

 

If you are going by the photos above then the Hattons model is not GWR livery either and more light brown and much more incorrect than the Hornby version. But neither are like that in real life.

 

Maybe looking at the actual models rather than digital photographs shown on a digital device would be a good idea. I've looked at both IRL and decided they aren't for me. YMMV.

 

And for the record I've got two full sets of the Collett suburban sets and a dozen corridor stock coaches that also look green in online photos. I can assure you they are a good match to Phoenix Paints GWR Chocolate and Cream which is correct and don't look green at all. 

 

We had this in the Collett coach thread and it was debunked then as well.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 29, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[boxbrownie]

My full set of Hattons Choc and Cream arrived two weeks ago, only just opened them today and TBH they look really very good indeed, just what I would have imagined the real thing (whatever that is) might be, I wasn’t there to ever see them for real, I don’t care to scratch over books and photos to check the ‘enth degree of detail but when chugging around behind my little Pannier they look excellent, and I am sure the Hornby versions would look just as good in that situation.

 

Now what were we arguing about again? 🤣

[6990WitherslackHall]

I'm quite happy with my Hornby LNER teak 1st class 6 wheeler which has lights fitted. I've also got a 4 wheel Baggage brake in BR crimson. 

 

Hoping to collect a rake of the LNER coaches. I'm finding it hard to find a brake one though in shops. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by 6990WitherslackHall

[Paul.Uni]

New coach celebrating Flying Scotsman's 100th Anniversary https://uk.Hornby.com/products/flying-scotsman-100th-anniversary-4-wheel-coach-r40369

 

Part of Hornby's Flying Scotsman's Centenary range https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/flying-scotsman-centenary

[PeterStiles]

oooh. i'm having one these at these prices:

[boxbrownie]

51 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

oooh. i'm having one these at these prices:

Dare you…..

[MyRule1]

Various questions and theories about the Hornby generic coaches are being discussed in the Hattons thread.

 

One is the current heavy discounting of certain models at the moment. Could some of the 50% discounts be stock the retailer bought in at the original RPI and is now discounting against the new, hight cost?

 

The other question, which I won't address as I have no information is whether Hornby will  replace the very long standing Railroad coaches with the more recent generic coaches, particularly in train sets.

[Hroth]

I bought a couple of the Hornby GNR 3rd 4 wheelers (with lighting) for £21 and a bit each from MRD, which is pretty stiff discounting, even at the original price. At that level they are cheaper than the old Hornby 4 wheelers...

 

[Butler Henderson]

Discounting and sale prices are the art of economics.  An individual product will part of a order for a number of products and a retailer will be looking at covering the cost of the overall order. Once that has been acheived any further sales are profit at whatever price they are sold at. If the order cost has not quite been covered then they would hope that dropping the prices will bring into enough income to cover the order cost and gain a profit

[SHMD]

...and this is the reprehensible bit - forcing retailers (Hobson's Choice) into taking large stocks, for Tier status, and then later undercutting RRP to achieve their own (Hornby's) "profitable bit" once the bulk of product had been moved on.

 

 

Kev.

 

[BlueLightning]

6 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

One is the current heavy discounting of certain models at the moment. Could some of the 50% discounts be stock the retailer bought in at the original RPI and is now discounting against the new, hight cost?

 

I haven't been able to get any in my tier 2 shop (other shops may vary) for quite some time due to stock restrictions, so I expect that they are discounts to move on things that will not shift. Not that I had any issues moving on what I did manage to get.

 

6 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

The other question, which I won't address as I have no information is whether Hornby will  replace the very long standing Railroad coaches with the more recent generic coaches, particularly in train sets.

 

Almost certainly not, they have shown no signs of replacing the old 4 wheelers so far, and I don't expect them too in the near future. Even if doing so seems like it would make sense. I expect the earliest they would look at replacing the older 4 wheelers would be when the tooling wears out, and even then I wouldn't put money on it.

 

Gary

Edited October 22, 2022 by BlueLightning

[JohnR]

57 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

I haven't been able to get any in my tier 2 shop (other shops may vary) for quite some time due to stock restrictions, so I expect that they are discounts to move on things that will not shift. Not that I had any issues moving on what I did manage to get.

 

 

Almost certainly not, they have shown no signs of replacing the old 4 wheelers so far, and I don't expect them too in the near future. Even if doing so seems like it would make sense. I expect the earliest they would look at replacing the older 4 wheelers would be when the tooling wears out, and even then I would put money on it.

 

Gary

 

 

Given the difference in complexity between the two coaches, I expect Hornby's profit margin on the cheap 4-wheelers is higher than on the new Generic coaches.  Those old ones from the 1970s are going nowhere. 

[SHMD]

I think the "old 4 wheelers" are for a much younger market which must not have all those delicate bits that get knocked off and possibly ingested.

 

I can see the the "old 4 wheelers" staying because the Rail Road range is not really for modellers - even if it happens to have the exact model you may want/need.

 

 

Kev.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, SHMD said:

I think the "old 4 wheelers" are for a much younger market which must not have all those delicate bits that get knocked off and possibly ingested.

 

Here's a "how to" video on the old 4-wheelers - from 9:15:

 

 

[samfieldhouse]

I've recently picked up a selection of GNR teak and LNWR coaches; from either Kernow or the very helpful Leigh at Collett's Models.

I paid between £21 and £27 for them, some with lights and some without, but at that price it's hard to say no.

The teak effect is very lovely and the LNWR looks good too.

 

 

They are however very tight, they don't roll at all. Any tips on limbering them up? 

[Bulleidboy100]

Check the wheels are located correctly, one of mine had jumped from it location, not falling out, and once fixed the coach rolled very well.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Bulleidboy100