Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches

[theevilpupster]

OO Works has just informed me that the invoice is in the post for my 0330 and I already have two terriers, in SR green, one from each maker, so a couple of these will make a good fill in until the Hatton's ones come out. I only caught up with this news today and I was a bit open mouthed about it. Time will tell whether two manufacturers effectively duplicating this sort of range is a positive, neutral or negative for the hobby. 

 

Perhaps a bigger and more pertinent question is the availability of suitable locos to haul them. OK I know there are kits. I'm pretty rubbish at them, so RTR is the way to go for me. Maybe for the GW Hatton's, Hornby or Heljan could toss coins and decide who is going to head on a 517 or or a 655. Makes wonderful sense. Doesn't it.

 

(Also Col. Stephens type cameo layouts look like having a good couple of years).

 

[maico]

Hornby could offer SDJR liveries now, the Hattons ones are slated for batch 3 which are some way off.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by maico

[Edwardian]

As for suitable motive power for the GWR train pack, I think the answer has been staring us in the face all along .... 

 

[Ravenser]

3 hours ago, CKPR said:

In actual passenger traffic on BR  ? About 2-3 6W coaches on the old GER...

 

 The last two lines to use 6 wheelers in public service were the Thaxted branch and the Mid Suffolk. From memory replacement came in 1949 and 1950 respectively. Possibly some 4 wheelers survived on S Wales miners' trains to a similar date

 

These were of the round top corner/square bottom corner style, and not quite the same length as Hattons' coaches - whether filing the bottom corner square on Hornby 6 wheelers would be an option I don't know. They were also rebuilt from compartment to open and given footboards , to allow for the low cinder platforms and "pay-train" operation on GE light railways

 

What we do need to know, quite urgently , is the lengths and other leading dims.  

 

The Hornby coaches seem to be close to Stroudley LBSC - the Hattons coaches wandered in a different direction. I also wonder how close they are to GWR 4 wheelers

 

And neither are any use whatsoever for LNW/Furness stock or much cop as GNR 

 

As a practical issue , there seem to be a couple of non-duplicates : the Hattons 6 w full brake - very close to a GSWR type, - and the Hornby 4w van. I'm still tempted to get the Hattons 6w full brake in BR crimson for parcels work

Edited January 5, 2021 by Ravenser

[Jol Wilkinson]

From an LNWR enthusiasts point of view, neither the Hattons or the Hornby models look much like an LNWR carriage.

 

Where they got their livery colours from is a mystery as the "Carriage Lake" (the Plum in the Plum and Spilt Milk description) looks far too brown, in comparison to the Phoenix Precision Paints colour which as apparently based on prototype examples. There are several examples of LNWR carriages at the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre that also show a much darker colour.

 

The panelling is clearly wrong but the Hornby model somehow looks even more incorrect then the Hattons version. Either way, these aren't anything like a realistic LNWR four or six wheel coach. However, if the buyer is happy to accept that they are "near enough" then I expect that they will sell. Whether they will actually do anything to increase realistic modelling of the pre-group LNWR (or some of the other railway companies) remains to be seen.

 

 

 

 

[maico]

6 hours ago, CKPR said:

As both Hornby and Hattons have, for some completely inexplicable reason, failed to announce any M&CR coaches, I have no more to say on the matter...

 

Perhaps because of the article in the Carlisle Journal about the railway on 5th September 1846:

"almost daily public complaints of want of accommodation, of irregularity, of notorious incivility somewhere, as well as mismanagement everywhere"

Edited January 6, 2021 by maico

[PhilJ W]

47 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Well for me it's going to be the Hatton's SR department tool van and Hornby 4 wheeled brake to be support carriages for my breakdown crane rightly or wrongly.

 

I believe the Rowlands Castle layout had a train of tanks on warwells with 4 or 6 wheeled exLBSC brakes at each end so that is food for thought for me too...

I need a few coaches to go with my Oxford rail gun. With the Model Rail class 11 due out soon all I need will be the special ammo wagon.

[LBSC123]

Does anyone know if any LBSC 6 wheelers made it into SR Green?

 

As I understand it, they only sent LBSC 4 wheelers over to the Island (and ex LCDR coaches with the centre wheel removed). 
 

I think I remember reading that some were possibly used for Lancing works trains(?), and a few LCDR 6 wheelers lasted into the 1930s on the mainland too.

 

Seems like an odd decision to do 6 wheelers not 4 wheelers, imho. I’ll stick with Hatton's for now... 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

As for suitable motive power for the GWR train pack, I think the answer has been staring us in the face all along .... 

 

unfortunately not.. its a real engine in its authentic livery.

 

(url link)

 

I was thinking of putting one of these in a Dapol B4 chassis.

if I put LMS on it, I guess that would make it more “authentic” for these coaches.

 

Got me thinking... no more SteamPunk in 2021 range ?

These coaches with cogs on...

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by adb968008

[Darwinian]

Err, they’ve put the grab/commode handles on wrong. You wouldn’t be able to reach them when alighting.

Very in-GWR.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

unfortunately not.. its a real engine in its authentic livery.

 

(url link)

 

I was thinking of putting one of these in a Dapol B4 chassis.

if I put LMS on it, I guess that would make it more “authentic” for these coaches.

 

Got me thinking... no more SteamPunk in 2021 range ?

These coaches with cogs on...

 

I suspect most of the basic 0-4-0s are "based" on real locos such as this:

 

 

Which is based on this:

[Crantock]

Well interesting developments.  It will be interesting to see Hornby and Hatton coaches side by side.  I worry the takes on the colour - eg LNWR plum might not align as these are not long established RTR colours.

 

To me the glaring omission from product lines are pre-grouping brake vans.  These open up a goods train of readily available private owners.  Perhaps too company specific for the generic approach.

[Paul.Uni]

Kernow are showing the GWR train pack at RRP £179.99 (pre-order price £161.99)

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, paulontheball said:

I'm building stock for a future Isle of Wight layout set in the late 1930s/start of WW2 period and considering what a mish-mash of secondhand, patched up and modified coaching stock they had at the time, I wondered if a set of these or the Hattons units in SR livery would work behind a Terrier or an O2? - any views?

 

Probably a mixture of the two would suit better...

 

Just a thought

Les

 

[p8kpev]

This announcement surprised me.   Beyond the general thoughts (hooray for competition anywhere and everywhere, hooray for more pre-1923 liveries in RTR), I think I understand one of the primary target markets for this range:  people like me who have a favorite modeling interest--or two or more--but who have made irresponsible impulse purchases of all sorts of lovely pre-1923 locos.

 

Even though I have settled on 1913-14 as a favorite English modelling period, I can't justify most (almost any) of these locos in the part of the country I choose to model, but I can be persuaded to run them with a string of goods wagons or a handful of coaches on days when whimsy conquers loyalty to prototype.  And I won't have time to build kits of everything I'd like to run someday.  Along come Hattons and Hornby to cash in.  All is well.

 

[Edge]

30 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

Kernow are showing the GWR train pack at RRP £179.99 (pre-order price £161.99)

 

Highly curious - Hattons are stil showing it at the higher price. Someone has made a mistake somwhere, although i think Kernow is far more on the money with the value of the set

[BlueLightning]

10 hours ago, Darwinian said:

Err, they’ve put the grab/commode handles on wrong. You wouldn’t be able to reach them when alighting.

Very in-GWR.

 

They appear to have put them the correct way round for Stroudley, rather odd since they used a GWR style grab handle

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by BlueLightning

[Knuckles]

45 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I suspect most of the basic 0-4-0s are "based" on real locos such as this:

 

 

Which is based on this:

 

!!

 

I thought they were freelance.

 

Sweet.

 

I used to have a blue one.  Then it fell off the old layout decades ago and I could never get the motor mount spring back in.  Think it got binned.

 

Want to buy a new one now.

[nathan70000]

Well this is very cheeky.

 

The BR(E) ones are just the thing for generic East Anglian branches. They definitely lasted in to the early 50s, long enough for locos pulling them to gain an early crest.

 

There's a slight lack of joined up thinking here, though. The LNWR ones are orphans in the Hornby range, unless they do something next year to complement them. The NBR ones *don't really* have anything accurate to pull them, either, as Maude is in preserved condition. Would it have hurt to push the retooled A3 back a year and retool the J83 instead, allowing for it to be tooled in NBR condition? Perhaps with the GWR 2721 following?

 

It's curious that out of all the announcements it's this one that has sparked the most discussion. Houses aren't getting any bigger and pre-grouping suits smaller layouts, so I suspect that this is a market that will only get bigger.

Smaller locomotives means smaller prices, too: look at the going rate for the J15 vs. an A4. Far more affordable to the average modeller, and I seriously wonder whether all those £200> diecast Pacifics will actually sell when they start mass producing them.

[gc4946]

I wonder if the NBR and LNWR versions are released this year because of the nature of batch production ...

and Hornby have matching locos up its sleeve in the next year or two?

[Legend]

11 hours ago, Edwardian said:

As for suitable motive power for the GWR train pack, I think the answer has been staring us in the face all along .... 

 

I thought a Deans Goods maybe .

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I thought a Deans Goods maybe .

 

The clue to its inappropriateness is in the name.

 

Hornby's range is somewhat lacking in bread-and-butter locomotives - the J15 being an honourable exception.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Please forgive me if this has been commented on before, I will admit that I haven't read all 10 pages, but the most interesting thing about these coaches to me is the lighting.

 

Are these the first Hornby (or indeed any UK manufacturer) coaches offered with lights? ANd battery lights at that.

 

European manufacturers always used to offer lit versions - but British??

 

Very interesting use of reed switches and the way they can easily be retro fitted by the end user.

 

I am aware that similar component parts for modellers to use to make their own lighting units are offered by small suppliers (I use them myself in my HO stock) but to have a ready made product seems a breakthrough and a first for Hornby but I may be wrong as I don't model 00 any more.

[MattA]

10 hours ago, Edge said:

 

Highly curious - Hattons are stil showing it at the higher price. Someone has made a mistake somwhere, although i think Kernow is far more on the money with the value of the set

Hatton's have since adjusted their pricing. Pre-order price is now £162 on their site https://www.hattons.co.uk/stockdetail.aspx?SID=619194

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I wonder if anybody else would fancy tackling them? 

 

Without advance publicity, naturally!

 

John

Actually I am now announcing I (The Dream Rolling Stock Company) will be producing clerestory sets in every livery available with lighting and remote opening doors by DCC control to be released by Christmas 2021.........

 

Expect a release announcement from Hornby around about March time now......