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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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19 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I was thinking some more on this, and actually given Hornby's place in the market it does need a range of 4 wheel coaches to replace the previous ones and they do look like improvements on what went before.

 

It gives people a choice and there will be those that demand accuracy and will kit build, there will be those that will support Hattons and there will be those who would only every buy from Hornby.  And a bit of mix and match would be good too - have your cake and eat it.

No way these are replacing the old four wheel coaches - they're far too detailed for that.

7 minutes ago, Calidore said:

I think Hornby's interest here must be strategic rather than anything else. Coming in a red box, there will be huge demand for these as expansions to train sets / as a perfect 'bridge' between simple starter products and the high-fidelity expensive stuff. They're small, easy to buy one or two of at a time, look attractive and will doubtless sell in all sorts of colourful mix-and-match combinations to that sector of the market, and they're realistically priced at £29 rather than £49 for a main range 'big' coach.

 

The motivation here is very different to that from Hattons, I think, though Hornby will gladly hoover up a good proportion of the market Hattons were aiming at as well.

And Hattons are also selling their coaches for £30!

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4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They could have gone for some differences such as tumblehome ends. The duckets look like they've been copied from a photograph of a late survivor that had had its panelling replaced with steel sheeting - a bit feeble.

The LBSCR Stroudleys as-built had plated ducket sides, the panelling was added later in their lives. In this instance it would be accurate for Stroudley carriages.

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6 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

The LBSCR Stroudleys as-built had plated ducket sides, the panelling was added later in their lives. In this instance it would be accurate for Stroudley carriages.

 

Well, why not call them Stroudley carriages, then? The Hattons carriages started out being a bit too heavily influenced by the Stroudly carriages to be adequately generic - Stroudley's designs had some idiosyncratic quirks such as window glass inserted into the frames from the inside, so no bolection mouldings. I need to go back and look closely at that aspect of the sample shown earlier!

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7 minutes ago, darthmh said:

Bit naughty of Hornby.  There are loads of other coach types missing in RTR. Surely picking some of them would have been more sense. 

 

Yes but would that have been a good move for Hornby's coffers?

 

As we keep having to remind people, Hornby make what they think will turn them a profit and maximise shareholder value - they are NOT in the business of increasing the variety of models just to keep modellers happy or avoid duplication for the sake of it.

 

Given the demand / appetite for 'pretty' and small (which retail at lower prices) locos, having a range of 4/6 wheeled coaches to go with them is a sound business strategy.

 

Whether they would have gone down this route in the first place without Hattons launching their 'Genesis project' and the positive response that generated is of course something that we will never know the answer too...

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9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Well, why not call them Stroudley carriages, then?

 

Because they everyone would start nit-picking over tiny details and moaning "You don't see that livery on a Stroudly."

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I’m not sure what to say to about these to be honest - given the lead in times for starting new projects it would seem that these were started before Hattons’ announcement, but then again Hornby probably have the capability to accelerate their supply chain and development more than most other manufacturers. The spec and price is so similar it appears to be a competing move. I have nothing against that personally, it is what it is and we get the choice. Hornby haven’t done badly out of the competition with Rails for the Terrier. By the sounds of it some will be sticking with the Hattons’ efforts, the reaction has been fairly lukewarm. 
 

I’m planning on picking up just one pair of Hattons’ 6 wheel efforts for a two coach train, and only the other night I was thinking of ordering some more in BR Crimson, but decided against it as Hattons we’re only doing 4 wheel versions in this livery - whereas Hornby are doing 6 wheelers in Crimson. So we have got a limited amount of extra variants to choose from through this. 
 

As for success, it will either go two ways - they’ll end up in the bargain bin, or they’ll go like hotcakes. It has to be said the lighting system as demonstrated in the video is very innovative. Will get my preorder in for a pair in Crimson. 

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Ordered Genesis coaches from Hattons last week. Well done to them for being upfront about their plans. Sorry Hornby, but the perhaps secrecy is not always the best strategy for a major manufacurer..

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From my perspective as someone after different coaches for different things I'll be making use of both. I need some 'filler' stock in teak and in NBR livery, plus some SR Green Stroudleys at some point so the Hornby stock will be useful there, but for other companies (SECR, for example) the Hattons stock will be more useful.

 

The Hornby 4-Wheelers look too Stroudley for me to consider using them for all that much.

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The pricing for the pack with the terrier confuses me. The coaches individually are £29, so three of them totals to £87. Does that mean the Terrier is now a £212 model?

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Bit of a snub on Hattons but I will be sticking with them as the range is wider with more livery and coach choices.

 

Wouldn't a more sensible option be to retool the Clerestory coaches instead? Still era 2 and not competing, but complimenting Hattons

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I am happy to see these. That is because I am happy with the idea of generic coaches and these look entirely reasonable in conception and execution.

 

I'm glad that Stephen (Compound) was bold enough to comment, because I was looking at the pictures and thinking that these were perhaps not so well conceived and executed as Hattons', but I think that we must reserve final judgment until we see them side by side in the flesh, and I predict that it will be the difference between the good and the very good.

 

Whether this is an unintended duplication or another "don't park your tanks on our lawn" release, I cannot say, so will not express a view.

 

As was said on the Hattons topic, yes, a reasonable match for many means a perfect match for none, and some livery choices represent better approximations to the chosen companies than others.  It all depends on whether you buy into the idea of generic coaches.  I think better to have such approximations to modern standards than have nothing and I cannot help but think that such releases encourage more modellers to look at earlier periods and I think all good things will ultimately flow from that. Hopefully the happy hackers will have a conversion field-day too.

 

As a pre-Grouping Era freelancer, these coaches are particularly welcome and I'm now spoilt for choice. Hurray!  

 

A special mention I think goes to the rather Stroudleyesque 4-wheel full brake.  What a delightful model and I can see me taking that one to my heart. I note the duckets/look-outs/projections are flush sided on the brake coaches.  This conforms with Stroudley practice (they were latter rebuilt with panels), but does mean that in liveries depicting panels to the duckets, it looks like faux printed panelling.  i find this particularly nasty (it ruined the otherwise usable Hornby GWR corridor clerestories), but compromises have to be made with this type of generic product.

 

I notice that the grab/commode handles resemble the GWR's.  These were not especially common more generally, so it's an interesting choice.  It does mean that in this regard the coaches are likely to match my Triang GWesque clerestory hacks.

 

 

1132263412_DSC_1978-Copy.JPG.8e2adb9d4069324312d8592867e42b12.JPG

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Yes but would that have been a good move for Hornby's coffers?

 

As we keep having to remind people, Hornby make what they think will turn them a profit and maximise shareholder value - they are NOT in the business of increasing the variety of models just to keep modellers happy or avoid duplication for the sake of it.

 

Given the demand / appetite for 'pretty' and small (which retail at lower prices) locos, having a range of 4/6 wheeled coaches to go with them is a sound business strategy.

 

Whether they would have gone down this route in the first place without Hattons launching their 'Genesis project' and the positive response that generated is of course something that we will never know the answer too...

 

Indeed, it probably makes perfect sense for them long term, but you can't help thinking it looks a bit like a shot across Hatton's bow, and I do wonder if that's how it will be perceived in Liverpool? Hopefully there is space in the market for both and neither are going to end up catching a cold on this- I can't help thinking though that maybe Hornby might have been better served by releasing some authentic Stroudley LBSC coaches for the Terrier, even if they then did go on to offer them in a range of non-prototypical pre-grouping liveries. 

 

As the only 'London Midland' livery option they've put out in the first tranche is LNWR, I suspect my money will still be going to Hattons in the first instance. Let's hope the presence of two competing (or complementary) ranges of generic pre-grouping coaches doesn't push the prospect of some accurate RTR ones further down the road.

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I would like to see them side by side with the Hattons coaches to see if I can spot the differences. For myself I am looking for some stock to run with the Oxford railway gun so I will probably select examples from both Hornby and Hattons and repaint them.

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9 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

I do wonder why they didn't just announce a range of Stroudleys and be done with but hey ho!

 

Because that would have prevented* them releasing them in other liveries.

 

As with Hattons effort, Hornby have deliberately gone down the 'generic / freelance' route (even if they take a lot of inspiration from true Stroudley designs) so as to allow a wide number of liveries to be done.

 

* Yes I know that hasn't stopped Hornby before, but the Hobby as a whole is far less tolerant of such antics these days than they were in the 1960s, 70s & 80s.

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I think we had this discussion on the Hattons thread, but shouldnt the LNER coaches be in a brown livery, as they didnt use teak for 4 and 6 wheeled stock?

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Posted (edited)
Quote

 

SR, 6 Wheel Coaches

This SR coach is modelled as having step boards to enable access at stations with low platforms and electric lighting.

 

So you can't get access at stations with low platforms and gas lighting.

 

I am disappointed with this range, which duplicates Hattons' range somewhat. There are plenty of other things that Hornby could have made, see wishlists passim. Someone said that this gives people choice, but for those of us who would like a few Electrostars we have no choice at all as nobody makes them. Same for earlier Southern EMUs such as the 4COR and the 4SUB.
 

Edited by Budgie
typo
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32 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

I do wonder why they didn't just announce a range of Stroudleys and be done with but hey ho!

 

Given the popularity of Terriers, Stroudleys must be a likely candidate for a non generic release (ie following Dapol's O gauge lead) by a manufacturer. However this release might reduce the viability of such a venture.

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3 minutes ago, stephennicholson said:

 

Given the popularity of Terriers, Stroudleys must be a likely candidate for a non generic release (ie following Dapol's O gauge lead) by a manufacturer. However this release might reduce the viability of such a venture.

 

Well this is the thing, Hornby have the Terriers to pull them, and it seems they went and measured the prototype, but then decided to make it a little less accurate to stick more liveries on it , eh I'm sure they know what they're doing 

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At some point in the future I might well pick up a train for the GWR ones knowing that they are not accurate, but knowing that they would look lovely on a small layout. 

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