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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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Quick question 

 

I know that when Dugald Drummond began designing NBR locomotives there was a lot of Stroudley influence with some of the early types being near copies of Stroudley types.

 

So the question is was there a similarity in the carriage designs as well.

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20 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

This is the best I can quickly do for length of the six wheelers. 
 

my video review will be coming on Wednesday. 
 

34CD679E-E1AE-433E-9E6C-1CD1D5EEA521.jpeg.dff8c930a87e1c839dde4e5efda01471.jpeg

 

I read that as 127mm over body (152-25)= 31'9"

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6 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

I know that when Dugald Drummond began designing NBR locomotives there was a lot of Stroudley influence with some of the early types being near copies of Stroudley types.

 

So the question is was there a similarity in the carriage designs as well.

 

Possibly. It certainly seems there wasn't much in the way of carriage design on the North British before Drummond arrived in 1875, after five years as works manager at Brighton. These would be the folk to ask. Drummond certainly introduced new designs on the Caledonian but these have the three-layer panelling that was also characteristic of North British carriages from at least the time of Holmes, so rather different to Stroudley's designs.

 

When thinking about Stroudley's influence on Drummond, it's worth remembering that both cut their teeth under S.W. Johnson's superintendency at Cowlairs in the 1860s.

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2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Well now, once upon a time there was a TV drama called God's Wonderful Railway and the title music was, indeed, a piece of Elgar, his Severn Suite, Opus 87. 

 

But, yes, Elgar is evocative of England generally, but perhaps particularly places in the West, such as the Malvern Hills.

 

 

 Perhaps "The Wagon Passes" might be more appropriate.

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3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Well now, once upon a time there was a TV drama called God's Wonderful Railway and the title music was, indeed, a piece of Elgar, his Severn Suite, Opus 87. 

 

Ah, yes, I remember that - late 70s / very early 80s? It was filmed on the Severn Valley Railway, at Arley, I think, and traced a railway family through three generations, from the point of view of the family children of the time - the construction and opening of the line, the Edwardian heyday, and the Second World War. So the choice of that particular piece of Elgar was apt, as well as wonderfully atmospheric.

Edited by Compound2632
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1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

I read that as 127mm over body (152-25)= 31'9"

 

I actually make it 128mm over body (151-23) = 32"

 

Which would make sense with the prototype SR No 7514 being a 32ft 4-compartment 1st - SR Diag 507/508/509

 

As I have said previously the model is a very close representation of the prototype Stroudley LB&SCR - the only main difference being the more "generic" choice of grab rail adjacent to each door.

 

What would be interesting is to have the other dimensions - especially the wheel base.

 

According to Mike King's drawing this should be 10ft 6in + 10ft 6in

 

IMG_20210110_0001.gif.eefd3de52172a7a6baa72f27aff59b78.gif

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I'm beginning to think that grab rails are the key to the use of these as 'layout coaches', which is all they're ever going to be at best except if they can be worked up into LBSCR condition,  My interest is for 4 whelers as GW workmen's stock, for which they may have some uses, especially as much of the underframe incorrectness is hidden by footboards.

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17 minutes ago, adrianmc said:

 

I actually make it 128mm over body (151-23) = 32"

 

Which would make sense with the prototype SR No 7514 being a 32ft 4-compartment 1st - SR Diag 507/508/509

 

As I have said previously the model is a very close representation of the prototype Stroudley LB&SCR - the only main difference being the more "generic" choice of grab rail adjacent to each door.

 

What would be interesting is to have the other dimensions - especially the wheel base.

 

According to Mike King's drawing this should be 10ft 6in + 10ft 6in

 

IMG_20210110_0001.gif.eefd3de52172a7a6baa72f27aff59b78.gif

 

Is this actually a Stroudley carriage? The high arc roof looks more like the style built under Billinton's superintendancy.

Edited by Compound2632
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8 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Surely Elgar, Holst, Britten, or another English composer would be more appropriate.

 

Not forgetting the first to be knighted for being a composer......

 

Les

 

- Sir Arthur- composer of the North East South West Diddlesex Junction 

Edited by Les1952
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16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Is this actually a Stroudley carriage? The high arc roof looks more like the style built under Billinton's superintendancy.

 

I would agree - I was using Stroudley as a description as to general style - the coaches to these diagrams were built 1892-1897 so definitely under R.J.Billinton's tenure with as you say a higher arc-roof profile.

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Generally speaking, a passenger-rated vehicle should be measured over the headstocks (the buffer beams ). Then, add 7mm at each end for the buffers to give you the overall length of the vehicle. Measuring the body is ok-ish, but if the tumblehome is of a different design, you might not get the accuracy you want. 

 

I'm rather taken with these coaches; although generic, the basic structure of the Vctorian coach was already generic by design. It's only the detail features  that sets one coach apart from its cousin. Having not seen the Hattons models yet, it appears  that  convincing looking train formations   can be gleaned from both. 

 

If I was in Hattons shoes right now, I'd be having a damn good look to see if I could 'out Hornby, Hornby'.  With 150-odd coach company liveries to choose from, it wouldn't be too hard.

 

Interesting times indeed.

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9 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Generally speaking, a passenger-rated vehicle should be measured over the headstocks (the buffer beams ). Then, add 7mm at each end for the buffers to give you the overall length of the vehicle. Measuring the body is ok-ish, but if the tumblehome is of a different design, you might not get the accuracy you want. 

 

I'm rather taken with these coaches; although generic, the basic structure of the Vctorian coach was already generic by design. It's only the detail features  that sets one coach apart from its cousin. Having not seen the Hattons models yet, it appears  that  convincing looking train formations   can be gleaned from both. 

 

If I was in Hattons shoes right now, I'd be having a damn good look to see if I could 'out Hornby, Hornby'.  With 150-odd coach company liveries to choose from, it wouldn't be too hard.

 

Interesting times indeed.

 

I think they've already got a couple of dozen liveries announced already.

 

But when you end up with something like the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire I think it's time to give up as you are selling about three of them....

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1 hour ago, adrianmc said:

 

I actually make it 128mm over body (151-23) = 32"

 

Which would make sense with the prototype SR No 7514 being a 32ft 4-compartment 1st - SR Diag 507/508/509

 

As I have said previously the model is a very close representation of the prototype Stroudley LB&SCR - the only main difference being the more "generic" choice of grab rail adjacent to each door.

 

What would be interesting is to have the other dimensions - especially the wheel base.

 

According to Mike King's drawing this should be 10ft 6in + 10ft 6in

 

IMG_20210110_0001.gif.eefd3de52172a7a6baa72f27aff59b78.gif

I make it 42mm from axle centre to axle centre on my example. 
 

The lighting is particularly good. I like the magnet actuation and the choice of the CR2032 battery should give reliability and longevity. 
 

0CCCF22D-31F3-4520-AA14-B9AC083A3573.jpeg.99d0c49317f593ea981e5189d9091177.jpeg

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1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

If I was in Hattons shoes right now, I'd be having a damn good look to see if I could 'out Hornby, Hornby'.  With 150-odd coach company liveries to choose from, it wouldn't be too hard.

 

Interesting times indeed.

 

For some reason theres been a delay in Hattons revealing the livery details of the 2nd batch LSWR examples. I wonder if they might pull them, or even adjust some of their 1st batch examples in light of Hornbys announcement. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

I make it 42mm from axle centre to axle centre on my example. 
 

The lighting is particularly good. I like the magnet actuation and the choice of the CR2032 battery should give reliability and longevity. 
 

0CCCF22D-31F3-4520-AA14-B9AC083A3573.jpeg.99d0c49317f593ea981e5189d9091177.jpeg

 

Interesting I note there is a sag in the footboard quite noticeable to my eyes ! 

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6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Well now, once upon a time there was a TV drama called God's Wonderful Railway and the title music was, indeed, a piece of Elgar, his Severn Suite, Opus 87. 

 

But, yes, Elgar is evocative of England generally, but perhaps particularly places in the West, such as the Malvern Hills.

 

 

Definitely - those of us lucky enough to have grown up in the tight little Worcestershire/Shropshire corner of the Severn Valley are called home by Elgar. Housman too, on the poetry side.

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1 hour ago, Jenny Emily said:

I make it 42mm from axle centre to axle centre on my example. 
 

The lighting is particularly good. I like the magnet actuation and the choice of the CR2032 battery should give reliability and longevity. 
 

0CCCF22D-31F3-4520-AA14-B9AC083A3573.jpeg.99d0c49317f593ea981e5189d9091177.jpeg

 

I rather like them, other than  (personally ) I think they are a tad too bright. 

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2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I think they've already got a couple of dozen liveries announced already.

 

But when you end up with something like the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire I think it's time to give up as you are selling about three of them....

 

Yes, very probably. But remember that there are quite a lot of coaches, multiplied by a lot of railway companies. Right now I'm trying to find my Mountford book on Western Absorbed Coaches.  Can I find it? PAH!

 

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4 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Yes, very probably. But remember that there are quite a lot of coaches, multiplied by a lot of railway companies. Right now I'm trying to find my Mountford book on Western Absorbed Coaches.  Can I find it? PAH!

 

 

However I think 372 is more than enough!

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1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

The reed switch activated light system could be problematic for Kadee users with fixed magnets for the Kadees. 

Unlikely with the Reed switch in the roof. The kadee 308 large magnets need to be within a few mm to actuate. I have mine on drop flaps to stop random uncoupling and they only need to drop about 15mm for the sleeper base to stop them actuating. 

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