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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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2 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

can we stop all this “Hornby are deliberately going after retail manufacturers” lark?

End of the day Simon Kohler said it in the tv program about protecting ‘their models’ it’s him that started it so is there any surprise people asscociate another direct comparison to these ;)

I understand it but equally it doesn’t hurt for them to realise what people are thinking with an aggressive policy when they admit it. 

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1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Remember Hatton's originally didn't announe any in LBSCR livery , they changed their mind after a lot of demand, some of us (me) at the time suggested perhaps another company was working on actual LBSCR prototypes (Tbh I suspected Rails of Sheffield), perhaps they knew Hornby were working on Stroudleys, perhaps it's all just coincidence, but for better or worse it just is what it is now 

Are you suggesting Hornby decided to genericify Stroudley coaches when they learnt of what Hattons was doing?

Edited by eldomtom2
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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Rather an obscure one - certainly not standard practice. Were they a feature of Stroudley's block trains?

 

No, I have works drawings for LBSC buffers, they never had any concave buffers, and the close coupled block trains had a single central buffer with the coupling built into it.

 

and besides, surely a concave buffer is more likely to lock as the buffers wont glide over each other nicely, but could well dig in? Me thinks a trick of the light has fooled someone (Happy to be proved wrong if anyone has evidence otherwise, and would love to see the picture in question)

 

Gary

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10 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

Are you suggesting Hornby decided to genericify Stroudley coaches when they learnt of what Hattons was doing?

Yes.

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I think this is welcome news.

 

1) Anything that 'normalises' pre-group modelling is a good thing. As the period moves into time beyond memory, modelling it has been dying a death and is now almost exclusively the preserve of finescale modellers working their way through stashes of long-discontinued kits or worse, building stock completely from scratch. Several key types of vehicles built in their thousands in the early C20 are simply no longer available in kit form as those manufacturers interested in the period retire. And we're not talking the esoteric stuff, but the basic furniture of C20 railways- like earlier types of GWR minks or even an Open A wagon.

 

2) I can build an etched brass carriage kit, but I COULDN'T paint and line it in a pre-group livery to anything like the standard of a modern printed rtr product. It is a significant barrier for those who want to model the pre-group era with minimal effort, and I suspect I am not alone in being willing to sacrifice prototype fidelity for something that looks as crisply finished as the loco that is hauling it.

 

3) It has also just occurred to me that with a bit of T-cut to the existing markings and replacement decals, those NBR carriages could just about pass as GWR 1912-1922 crimson lake.... They're generic anyway, so what would be the harm?

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2 hours ago, Nile said:

Yes.

But that would be illogical.  Would Hornby not continue to produce the Stroudley coaches and then produce a more generalised model based on the Stroudley for other liveries?  That way they would pick up the perceived demand for accurate  representations of Stroudley coaches and also capture a share of the generic market as well.

 

Regards

 

Roddy

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14 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Would you have bought the Hatton’s versions though?

umm...in all honesty, it was on my list of maybe's (i did watch Sam's and Jenny's videos on them)..i think the fact I've seen the finished product and  can have them in a few days has swayed me. I shall be doing a click and collect with my local shop on Saturday to give some support to him.

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2 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

 I shall be doing a click and collect with my local shop on Saturday to give some support to him.

Can he do that? Hattons have had to suspend their kerbside pickup service due to covid restrictions.

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5 minutes ago, Forward! said:

or worse, building stock completely from scratch

 

Terrible. What crimes against humanity!

 

2127331278_Pelsallglossvarnish.JPG.6082e3600b86f2ad512abd580b63071d.JPG

 

Like anything, it's just a question of being willing to practise.

 

I do rather object to the idea that pre-grouping modelling needs to be "normalised", as if its practitioners are somehow abnormal. 

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14 minutes ago, Roddy Angus said:

But that would be illogical.  Would Hornby not continue to produce the Stroudley coaches and then produce a more generalised model based on the Stroudley for other liveries?  That way they would pick up the perceived demand for accurate  representations of Stroudley coaches and also capture a share of the generic market as well.

 

Regards

 

Roddy

 

As illogical as releasing a coach pack with a Terrier in GWR livery or a Maunsell dining saloon that is several years too early for any of the Hornby restaurant firsts to run with it... :laugh:

 

Hornby love retooling things lately so perhaps actual Stroudleys are still on the cards 

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11 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

Can he do that? Hattons have had to suspend their kerbside pickup service due to covid restrictions.

i think so yes. the gov guidelines have not banned click and collect. he does everything by the book, your not allowed in, socially distance out (tons of room), given its a model train shop not exactly got a mile queue out side either :D

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1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

I do rather object to the idea that pre-grouping modelling needs to be "normalised", as if its practitioners are somehow abnormal. 

 

I have been known to dabble in a bit of scratchbuilding, but you've got to admit, pre-group modellers are a distinct minority in the hobby.  So in that sense, yes, we are abnormal! It's not a bad thing as every hobby has niche interests, but the advent in 2021 of being able to make up a generally quite plausible early C20 train using modern rtr products can only help broaden participation in modelling this fascinating period of British railway history. And ultimately, that's the only way our hobby survives and indeed grows.

 

Will

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3 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

i think so yes. the gov guidelines have not banned click and collect. he does everything by the book, your not allowed in, socially distance out (tons of room), given its a model train shop not exactly got a mile queue out side either :D

In the last few days there has been talk of banning click n' collect at nn-essential shops in England but as far as I can trace that has not yet been enacted.  Legally Hattons would appear to be able operate a click n' collect service under the Lockdown Regulations.  However unless they live near to Hattons' premises a customer would be breaking the Lockdown law if they were to go to the shop to collect goods they have pre-ordered.  Thus your modelling bill could legitimately be increased by £200 if the local constabulary happen to find out what you are doing and take exception to it.  

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18 minutes ago, Forward! said:

Several key types of vehicles built in their thousands in the early C20 are simply no longer available in kit form as those manufacturers interested in the period retire. And we're not talking the esoteric stuff, but the basic furniture of C20 railways- like earlier types of GWR minks or even an Open A wagon.

 

I'll take this sentence a bit more seriously. Assuming we're talking about 4 mm scale and focusing on wagons, since you mention them, you need to look around you a little more. You refer obliquely to the demise of the Coopercraft range, which is to be regretted; it is true that there are several older ranges of whitemetal kits that have passed on but equally there are cottage manufacturers filling the void with new technologies, producing kits of pre-grouping prototypes that are much more accessible to the beginner than a whitemetal or etched brass kit. Within the Slaters and Ratio ranges, there are plastic wagon kits that cover getting on for 20% of the railway company-owned wagons running in the early 20th century (by quantity, not by type); a proportion that I think RTR struggles to match for the grouping or even post-nationalisation periods. (For the Midland Railway, that proportion rises to around 70%, thanks to Slaters.)

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32 minutes ago, Forward! said:

3) It has also just occurred to me that with a bit of T-cut to the existing markings and replacement decals, those NBR carriages could just about pass as GWR 1912-1922 crimson lake.... 

 

I haven't seen them in the flesh, but from the pics the colour and lining is a good match.

 

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30 minutes ago, Forward! said:

 

I have been known to dabble in a bit of scratchbuilding, but you've got to admit, pre-group modellers are a distinct minority in the hobby.  So in that sense, yes, we are abnormal! It's not a bad thing as every hobby has niche interests, but the advent in 2021 of being able to make up a generally quite plausible early C20 train using modern rtr products can only help broaden participation in modelling this fascinating period of British railway history. And ultimately, that's the only way our hobby survives and indeed grows.

 

Will

Some people just like to do things the hard way.....

 

If r-t-r pre-grouping just becomes too commonplace, they'll just migrate to 3mm or S Scale....

 

:angel:

 

John

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28 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'll take this sentence a bit more seriously. Assuming we're talking about 4 mm scale and focusing on wagons, since you mention them, you need to look around you a little more. You refer obliquely to the demise of the Coopercraft range, which is to be regretted; it is true that there are several older ranges of whitemetal kits that have passed on but equally there are cottage manufacturers filling the void with new technologies, producing kits of pre-grouping prototypes that are much more accessible to the beginner than a whitemetal or etched brass kit. Within the Slaters and Ratio ranges, there are plastic wagon kits that cover getting on for 20% of the railway company-owned wagons running in the early 20th century (by quantity, not by type); a proportion that I think RTR struggles to match for the grouping or even post-nationalisation periods. (For the Midland Railway, that proportion rises to around 70%, thanks to Slaters.)

And quite a few more if you don't omit Cambrian kits.....

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

umm...in all honesty, it was on my list of maybe's (i did watch Sam's and Jenny's videos on them)..i think the fact I've seen the finished product and  can have them in a few days has swayed me. I shall be doing a click and collect with my local shop on Saturday to give some support to him.

Then your correct, Hornby have succeeded in what they set out to do  :D

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57 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I do rather object to the idea that pre-grouping modelling needs to be "normalised", as if its practitioners are somehow abnormal. 

For main stream manufacturers it has to be “normalised”, there were so many different combinations and odd custom conversations in pre grouping it would be impossible to be 100% accurate on a range and have a big enough market, they deem it better to be close enough and please more customers than 100% and only please maybe less than 5% of the market.

 

 

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I have been given permission to share one of the images Hornby were working from with regard to the buffers: 

 

64BF20BF-FD40-4554-B542-12371BFBD032.jpeg.8a34dc9ec9d2b7613917c4b0953d1c61.jpeg

Courtesy of the Mike King Collection.

 

Hornby raised my pointing out of the concave buffers in my review and sought to clarify the reason they are so on the model. I am just passing this on. 

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Did they not think it better to go with the flat faced buffers as per the photo then? Because using a photo of flat faced buffers to justify concave buffers seems a very odd decision.

 

(No offence meant to you Jenny, I know you are just the messenger)

Gary

Edited by BlueLightning
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I wonder how easy it will be to fit Hornby's coach lighting (that they are offering as a separate item) to a Hattons unlit coach....

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Surely if you're wanting illuminated stock though, you'd just plump for the lighting option from either company rather than paying roughly the same price for the lighting kit after the fact? It costs the same price (£35.99 for Hornby's lit carriages compared £36 for Hattons'). 

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4 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Yes, but the point is that the Hornby lighting will not cause a drag on the coaches, whereas the Hattons one will. 


My concern is that the Hornby ones appear to have inside bearings which I would worry about increasing drag far more than the Hattons pinpoints in metal cups!

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