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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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2 hours ago, Nile said:

Looks like the same types that Derails had - GNR, LNER & BR.

Crimson set just arrived from them! The BR Crimson livery is very nice done.  Plan is to put them into service on "Lyncombe Vale", forming a 'what if' Highbridge service, where SDJR 4 & 6 wheelers survived into BR...

 

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Edited by SDJR7F88
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20 hours ago, Nile said:

Something is puzzling me. To me the least convincing of these is the 4-wheel all brake. It's too long to compared to the prototype it's loosely based on, and the panelling is wrong for most other railways. And yet it is proving very popular with buyers. Derails have sold out of the ones they had, and at Kernow the GWR version is the best seller this week (pre-orders). There's no accounting for taste it seems.

Thousands of rakes of old Hornby 4-wheelers that finally have an end vehicle?

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5 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Ah, the trademark Kohler all-1st. I bet he's planning a full Pullman livery soon.

 

To be fair, a rather more common type for 19th-century 4/6-wheelers than 20th century bogie corridor coaches! But, even if one gets over one's profound doubt that any 6-wheelers surviving in passenger use after 1947 ever got BR crimson, there's the point that the outer compartments would undoubtedly have been downgraded to third.

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26 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Crimson set just arrived from them! The BR Crimson livery is very nice done.  Plan is to put them into service on "Lyncombe Vale", forming a 'what if' Highbridge service, where SDJR 4 & 6 wheelers survived into BR...

 

IMG_20210115_134911.jpg

IMG_20210115_134923.jpg

 

Oh my Callum, I am positively surprised! An order of ours that actually got to you quickly without DPD leaving it in a builders yard or Royal Mail keeping it at their depot for 27 days....that's a turn up for the books considering our last few attempts at getting items to you :wink_mini: Jokes aside, can't wait to see them on your new layout.

 

They are selling quite well (especially the LNER and GNR - all pretty much gone here now) so if you'd like some, make sure you contact your local model shop asap and see what they've got left!

 

Cheers!

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Derails Models said:

 

Oh my Callum, I am positively surprised! An order of ours that actually got to you quickly without DPD leaving it in a builders yard or Royal Mail keeping it at their depot for 27 days....that's a turn up for the books considering our last few attempts at getting items to you :wink_mini: Jokes aside, can't wait to see them on your new layout.

 

They are selling quite well (especially the LNER and GNR - all pretty much gone here now) so if you'd like some, make sure you contact your local model shop asap and see what they've got left!

 

Cheers!

 

 

You can imagine how surprised I was! :D

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44 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To be fair, a rather more common type for 19th-century 4/6-wheelers than 20th century bogie corridor coaches! But, even if one gets over one's profound doubt that any 6-wheelers surviving in passenger use after 1947 ever got BR crimson, there's the point that the outer compartments would undoubtedly have been downgraded to third.

I suppose at this point it's too soon to ask if anyone's - er - tried to remove any of the decals? And, looking to future when some of these sell less well than others, does anyone have a paint match for 1950s BR(E) "I'Can't-Believe-It's-Still-Running Brown"? :devil:

 

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40 minutes ago, Nile said:

Any idea when the other liveries are due?

 

No exact delivery dates but the initial order form indicated all to be released by the end of February :-) 

 

HTH

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19 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

But it wasn't 'ready' at the critical time - i.e. when Hattons went public with their Genesis range.

 

At that point in time both projects were at the CAD stage with Hattons continuing to refine the details over the subsequent 6 months thanks to feedback from Knowledgable RMwebbers as can be seen from the relevant thread if you start at the beginning.

 

Its also noticeable that Hattons were not initially going to them in LSBCR livery and there were rumours floating round the internet that this was because someone else was looking at doing authentic Stroudley coaches.

 

The suggestion made by some on here - and one which seems entirely logical when you look back on things is that Hornby, having seen how well the modelling community took to the idea of 'generic stock' decided they wanted a piece of the action. They had been working on Stroudley stock but were still some way off making the tooling so a number of hurried alterations were made (not just changing the handrails as pointed out by Zunnan) allowing Hornby to not only dodge claims of copying past practices* but also to get their product out before Hattons.

 

Nothing wrong with this per say - after all we kept being told by Governments and trade bodies that competition in the market is always a winner for the consumer, however as with the Terrier duplication there is a strong suspicion that Hornby have deliberately altered their plans so as to rush something out to steel a march on their competitors. The downside of this, as seen from the first batch of Hornby Terriers and now these coaches is they are still a bit 'rough round the edges' so to speak with the Rails Terrier and now Hattons equivalents generally having finer detail as befits a product which had a longer gestation and was not rushed to beet a rival.

 

 

* Back in the 1970s and 1980s it was quite normal for an accurate model to also be released in a number of fictitious liveries on the basis that the result was 'good enough' Thus we got pretty accurate Collett GWR stock from Hornby Masquerading as Maunsells while Lima went and released their Mk1s in LMS and GWR liveries

My point still applies, why would they bother?  They have a product making it less an authentic model doesn't make it more Generic with a coat of paint.

 

From what I remember, Hornby's range from the 70s had something like a Thompson for the LNER and the other design was used for LMS, GWR, SR and BR B/C & B/G whereas Lima made Mk1s in maroon, chocolate and Cream and Southern Region Green with the BR crest which was prototypical if not very accurate.

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2 hours ago, Derails Models said:

 

Oh my Callum, I am positively surprised! An order of ours that actually got to you quickly without DPD leaving it in a builders yard or Royal Mail keeping it at their depot for 27 days....that's a turn up for the books considering our last few attempts at getting items to you :wink_mini: Jokes aside, can't wait to see them on your new layout.

It’s obviously the customers fault......my order for the barn kit  and stuff arrived safely today just two days after ordering it.....:good:

 

You have to pick your customers more carefully :lol:

 

 

Edited by boxbrownie
Correct the postal timings
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I have been following the announcement from Hattons regarding their Genesis range of coaches for what seems like decades, and despite continually adding more liveries, they still they do not appear to have any for sale, so I am pleased that Hornby have introduced these coaches, and some liveries are already available to buy.

 

I model the K&ESR up to the1930's, and they ran a variety of four and six wheel coaches, purchased second hand from other companies. Liveries are a matter of some conjecture, the only documented record being that most of the coaches (both four and six wheel) were brake thirds, with photographic evidence indicating that the gaurd's observation windows were always located at the end of the coach. This configuration is reflected in both the four and six wheel brake coaches from Hornby, wheras only the four wheel brake coach from Hattons has the Guards observation window at the end.

 

At the moment construction of a brake third for the layout, requires the canibalization of two Ratio GWR four wheel coaches with four sections each to both sides and scratch building one end. All this occupies a great deal of time, costing almost as much a purchasing one ready made brake coach from Hornby, and I wont have to paint them! I will be contacting my local model railway shop, in the hope that they will have some of the Hornby coaches in stock soon.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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1 hour ago, Mark Dickerson said:

And, looking to future when some of these sell less well than others, does anyone have a paint match for 1950s BR(E) "I'Can't-Believe-It's-Still-Running Brown"? :devil:

 

Yes, it's festering in the bottom of my jar of thinners...

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3 hours ago, Bishdurham said:

from what I remember, Hornby's range from the 70s had something like a Thompson for the LNER and the other design was used for LMS, GWR, SR and BR B/C & B/G whereas Lima made Mk1s in maroon, chocolate and Cream and Southern Region Green with the BR crest which was prototypical if not very accurate.

1970 - Mk.1s in LMS, GWR and SR liveries and Thompson sides in a Mk.1 shell*, plus GWR clerestories. Later the old Caledonian coaches (again based on a Mk.1 shell) were added in LMS, GWR and SR liveries (replacing the Mk.1s for GWR & SR) and the clerestories in LNER 'teak'. The new '57 ft' range replaced this hotch-potch in 1977.

 

*In this case meaning underframe/ends, bogies and roof.

Edited by BernardTPM
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2 hours ago, Mark Dickerson said:

I suppose at this point it's too soon to ask if anyone's - er - tried to remove any of the decals? And, looking to future when some of these sell less well than others, does anyone have a paint match for 1950s BR(E) "I'Can't-Believe-It's-Still-Running Brown"? :devil:

 

I think Phoenix P60 is what you want. Despite its name it's actually brown. Humbrol 29 or Revell 82 might also do, with some weathering.

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2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

It’s obviously the customers fault......my order for the barn kit  and stuff arrived safely today just two days after ordering it.....:good:

 

You have to pick your customers more carefully :lol:

 

 

What he keeps telling me... :lol:

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14 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

What he keeps telling me... :lol:

Don't worry - I've had similar issues. Post via Bristol I fear...

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Was just about to press the button on Derails web site for a GN 3rd 4 wheeler when something niggled me about it and did a quick web search found this ; not such its six compartments long but rather each compartment has a roof ventilator whereas Hornby  on their five compartment 3rd class 4 wheelers are only providing three ventilators which makes it look more toy like to me. 

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

... and of course blue/grey.

Yes, though those were not being used generically. They used Mk.1s as substitute Stanier, Bullied and Collett/Hawksworth stock rather than as Mk.1s.

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