Hornby 2021 - HST & Mk3 range

[RyanN91]

Wow Midland Pullman HST!  and my prediction of both reintroduced MK3 Sleepers and the LNER 1978 Lets Go Round Again! farewell HST BR Class 43 power cars with MK3 coaches InterCity 125, were both correct not that anyone cares! 

[Hilux5972]

Is the different roof colours on the Pullman HST accurate?

[wozZle]

15 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Is the different roof colours on the Pullman HST accurate?

Roof should be grey on both power cars:

 

[Bob83a]

Are the coach letters correct on the FGW set, the TFO’s are shown as G and H and the TRFB is shown as K. this would put the TRFB between the 1st and the power car. I have only seen sets where the 1st class is between the TRFB and the power car. The TGS is surely always been A, next to the other power car and the TSO (B-E/F) are then all together before the TRFB

[surfsup]

5 hours ago, Bob83a said:

Are the coach letters correct on the FGW set, the TFO’s are shown as G and H and the TRFB is shown as K. this would put the TRFB between the 1st and the power car. I have only seen sets where the 1st class is between the TRFB and the power car. The TGS is surely always been A, next to the other power car and the TSO (B-E/F) are then all together before the TRFB

I did indeed notice this the yesterday, and it seems there is some confusion in the lettering. For a 2+8 with two TFs like that (2006 to 2012), the formation should be;

 

PC + A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H + PC 

 

A being the TGS, C being the TS-D, F being the Buffet. 
 

When the First Class started to be reduced to 1.5 from 2012 onwards, the formation changed to; 

 

PC + A, B, C, D, E, F, K, L+ PC 

A - TGS, C - TS-D, F - 425XX or 401XX Mini Buffet, K - TRFB or TC, L - TF. 
 

Things were changed again in their last year of service, due to the introduction of the IETs, but too late for an all blue set like this. The 425XXs were mostly made up of stored and redundant Buffet vehicles heavily converted to standard class TS’s and former First Class TF’s. 
 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by surfsup
Addition of Vehicles.

[Hilux5972]

On 07/01/2021 at 06:25, wozZle said:

Roof should be grey on both power cars:

 

Hopefully that’s just a mistake on the photoshopped image for the catalogue then. 

[Mackenzie546]

On 05/01/2021 at 21:42, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I think we should assume the FGW 402xx and the Midland Pullman buffets will be Limby lash ups, we need to see the roof to see if they are just late number RFMs in other liveries.

 

i thought the same, but i have just looked at the image after pre ordering, and (yes i know its a photoshopped image so may or may not mean anything) it does have the correct vents to not be a repainted RFM

 

also (once again i know its a photoshop) if they had done it from the image of an RFM it would have the smaller window by the buffet counter

 

at the end of the day however, all we can do at this time is speculate until Hornby release more information.

 

 

[surfsup]

4 hours ago, Mackenzie546 said:

 

i thought the same, but i have just looked at the image after pre ordering, and (yes i know its a photoshopped image so may or may not mean anything) it does have the correct vents to not be a repainted RFM

 

also (once again i know its a photoshop) if they had done it from the image of an RFM it would have the smaller window by the buffet counter

 

at the end of the day however, all we can do at this time is speculate until Hornby release more information.

 

 

 

A TRFB / TRSB should have two small window on the counter side too, to the same layout as the RFM. As you said, all we can do is speculate until one is produced, however at that price point I cannot see it being anything other than the ex Limby Hybrid. In fact, that photoshop seems to be a stretched 407XX - the location of the vents being the give-away. 

 

 

[SimulationNetwork]

Guys it's official... What a shame.

 

 

Usual Hornby cutting corners and being lazy ONCE again. Sigh.

[Class 158 productions]

£314 rrp and no headlight retool. Wow 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

1 hour ago, Class 158 productions said:

£314 rrp and no headlight retool. Wow 

and replicating a silly elite train that has still only ever run once. They will still queue up to buy it, and those of us seeking Midland Mainline Rio or ANY 1996-2006 GWT/FGW livery power cars have to wait another 50 weeks for another disappointment. Not that I'm bitter or anything...

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

£314 RRP and no headlight retool. Wow 

How easy and cheap do you think it is for Hornby to add that headlight? Just asking....

[Legend]

HST is Hornbys cash cow .   Very decent model but no competition  unless its the Railroad version , but then of course Hornby aren't going to compete against themselves. So they've no doubt calculated that enough people will buy it at £314 which I think is £30 dearer than other versions  , and they are correct . I bet this sells out 

 

Still smarting at £261 for a pair of Inter7City power cars . The irony is that while the power cars are very expensive actually the Mk3s are not bad value 

 

It does strike me that an enterprising decal company could produce the transfers and a number would be content to repaint Lima/Limby/ Railroad HSTs and perhaps pair them with the Pullman mk 3s  or just repaint the lot .

Edited January 21, 2021 by Legend

[Class 158 productions]

17 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

How easy and cheap do you think it is for Hornby to add that headlight? Just asking....

How easy and cheap was it to change the exhaust cowlings, some retooled quite recently, or the difference in windows and roof grilles. I thought given these had the cab light, the electrics are in there, just move the light forward and add a lens. I thought the added cost was for this, not just the 1:1 brand

[MGR Hooper!]

2 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

How easy and cheap was it to change the exhaust cowlings, some retooled quite recently, or the difference in windows and roof grilles. I thought given these had the cab light, the electrics are in there, just move the light forward and add a lens. I thought the added cost was for this, not just the 1:1 brand

Adding that headlight would need quite a bit of new tooling:-
- Hornby will need to create a brand new tool entirely for front of the HST
- They will need to create a whole new tool for the lighting guide and lens
- The will have to modify the cab interior tooling just to accommodate the new lens and light guide unit

That is by no means a cheap undertaking just for one small headlight.

The different exhaust cowlings and so on were all factored into the tooling when the Hornby HST was first released. I am not aware of any retooling done to the HST in recent times to model various exhaust cowlings, windows and roof grilles.

It will be far cheaper for a smaller company such as Express Models, Illuminated Models etc. to produce a lighting kit.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

About the headlight issue, surely they could at least drill another hole in the roof and put the cab light closer to the end of the roof. That means that the cab light (for once) has some usefulness and shouldn’t really add to the cost as much. That could justify the higher price but then again knowing the recent QC issues that hole could be anywhere!

[MGR Hooper!]

Just now, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said:

About the headlight issue, surely they could at least drill another hole in the roof and put the cab light closer to the end of the roof. That means that the cab light (for once) has some usefulness and shouldn’t really add to the cost as much. That could justify the higher price but then again knowing the recent QC issues that hole could be anywhere!

You will still need tooling for a lens and modified cab interior. Leave the lens out and people here will be complaining about a shabby job (which is perfectly fine, why do a half-hearted job??)

PS: When models have holes drilled in the body shells, they use a jig and some manufacturers like Marklin and Roco actually used automated arms that do all these things. So the positioning of the drill isn't the issue.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

I forgot to add the lens, my apologies. But still, it’s less expensive than designing and retooling an entire new cab. They don’t have an EMT light cluster tooling so they could and probably will use the LNER/GWR/SR bodyshell. Even then iirc the lighting would have to be changed. Still though, why the extra £15?? I understand that it’s part of the 1:1 collection but that doesn’t justify the price rise. Especially when the dummy can be sold on its own for £70

[Legend]

1 minute ago, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said:

I forgot to add the lens, my apologies. But still, it’s less expensive than designing and retooling an entire new cab. They don’t have an EMT light cluster tooling so they could and probably will use the LNER/GWR/SR bodyshell. Even then iirc the lighting would have to be changed. Still though, why the extra £15?? I understand that it’s part of the 1:1 collection but that doesn’t justify the price rise. Especially when the dummy can be sold on its own for £70

 

Compared to Accurascale Mk5s , a rake of 5  packed with functions for £225 and you realise  just how expensive these are.

[David12]

It isn't only the top headlight that's different from the HST "standard". Note the driver's side window - it has been partially blocked out to give a clean line around the livery. I cannot imagine for one second that Hornby will correct that detail, either. And don't even ask about the Kitchen and Buffet car modifications. I was totally committed to buying a set - no more. This is an example of Hornby modelling expertise at its worst: minimum effort, maximum profit. Thank goodness for the likes of Accurascale and other manufacturers that care about those of us who are prepared to pay for models and not accept second rate efforts like this is already turning out to be.

[Class 158 productions]

29 minutes ago, David12 said:

It isn't only the top headlight that's different from the HST "standard". Note the driver's side window - it has been partially blocked out to give a clean line around the livery. I cannot imagine for one second that Hornby will correct that detail, either. And don't even ask about the Kitchen and Buffet car modifications. I was totally committed to buying a set - no more. This is an example of Hornby modelling expertise at its worst: minimum effort, maximum profit. Thank goodness for the likes of Accurascale and other manufacturers that care about those of us who are prepared to pay for models and not accept second rate efforts like this is already turning out to be.

Completely agree, As well as these little errors, I’ve lost confidence on Hornby’s colour matching skills. Hopefully samples are received as I’ve ordered a full fgw and want it to be correct. I’ve waited a long time for another one. Don’t want another gbrf 50 situation 

[boxbrownie]

On 05/01/2021 at 11:46, Ouroborus said:

The Pullman HST is a chunk pricier than the FGW, so i would expect some mods.

Different coloured paint? 

[truffy]

38 minutes ago, Willoughby Glen said:

Hornby aren't going to spend thousands of pounds to change tooling for such small items for a one off 

But colour matching and application over the side windows hardly represent challenges in the same degree as changed tooling though.

[Ouroborus]

2 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Adding that headlight would need quite a bit of new tooling:-
- Hornby will need to create a brand new tool entirely for front of the HST
 

 

They've already done this for the network rail HST

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Willoughby Glen said:

from 2ft away will we actually see those details and worry about them.  If we go into that type of detail, we will be looking at grille slats being bent as per the prototypes!!

 

Hornby aren't going to spend thousands of pounds to change tooling for such small items for a one off 

You’ll certainly see the missing headlamp, not that I’m a worried......wrong sector.