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Hornby 2021 - HST & Mk3 range


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19 hours ago, Timsouth47 said:

Also, i doubt the LNER would have taken the stock back to bare metal for a four day special, as this would have been prohibitively expensive.

Therefore, Hornby have just replicated the train as seen for the tour,(warts & all).

Seriously?  Your saying Hornby decided to replicate the signs of old livery under a newly painted coach?

 

I’ll have some of those pills your on please……:lol:

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I believe the power cars were repainted in Craigentinny and the coaches in Wabtec at Doncaster - perhaps someone can correct me if this is wrong? Sadly I didn't see the train first hand but there is lots on the web in praise of the care and attention that was lavished on the train for the event. There are countless pictures and videos of the four day tour (I imagine watching all the videos would probably take longer than the tour itself!) and it looks to me that the livery has been applied to a very high standard indeed, entirely befitting for these venerable machines. The finish looks to have a high gloss sheen to it, with no obvious imperfections - certainly no raised line visible down the sides of the coaches, e.g., in the images in this thread for reference:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/149336-lner-hst-farewell-tour-blueyellow-hst-december-18th-to-21st/page/3/

I asked one of the retailers where I often source models about the apparent finishing issue on the model coaches - they agreed that there was a decoration issue and it affects all the stock they have of the TF R40041A Coach L and TS R40042A Coach D, which I think are the only ones available at retailers at present. All the others (except the buffet) are showing in stock at Hornby and @AndrewB7585 has confirmed the TGS R40045 Coach B is the same, so it seems that maybe all the coaches will appear with the same issue.

I haven't seen one of these models in the flesh myself, but from the pictures it looks almost like the cantrail has been printed in the wrong place and then over-printed in blue...

I was very much looking forward to this model, what a disappointment it has arrived with a problem. I have emailed Customer Services at Hornby so I will see what their response is.

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The blue painted line looks interesting - I reckon it's their solution to get round a blurry line between the blue & the grey. No one's really mentioned it elsewhere but their recent Mk2F coaches in Virgin colours also have a thin printed line between the divide of the red and the dark grey, much similar to what's been done in the blue/grey Mk3 pic above.

 

Their older releases of the Mk2E in the same Virgin colours don't have this, so one would presume they are using these printed lines as a new feature in key areas of colour changes on the coaching stock, doesn't look great but hoping I can cover this up when I re-finish mine with new numbers, weathering & varnishing etcs. 

 

Cheers

James

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A real shame, but is it really noticeable? Especially when these are on the Lima/Hornby MK3S with numerous other flaws. A high fidelity MK3 is really what is needed. And with that a Class 43 (41 as well if you’re asking). Not bashing the Hornby powercars, I have 14 pairs and love the model. But the lack of tooling variation, (the model already has loads though), poor livery selection, high price and lack of Modern DCC control really does make me hanker for a new HST. Given Harry patch sets can sell for £500-£600 and the previous runs of FGW mk3s going for over £100 really shows the market. I await the FGW set I have ordered, sceptical of the results! If Dapol can do Fag Packet why can’t Hornby? 

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25 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

A real shame, but is it really noticeable? Especially when these are on the Lima/Hornby MK3S with numerous other flaws. A high fidelity MK3 is really what is needed.

 

 

9 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

That line looks terrible and would stop me buying the set.

 

Fair comments, and definitely shows individuals will come to differing conclusions as to whether or not this would stop them buying the set. I agree it would be nice to see a re-tooled HST (coaches mainly), but I think there are two important but separate issues here, in the models themselves (which may or may not have detail deficiencies when compared to the prototype) and then the finishing of those models. Whether the models (coaches or power cars) underneath are 100% true to the prototype or not, IMO they should not be let down by avoidable imperfections with the livery application. I can accept some compromises (it's only a model train after all) but eventually it gets to a 'straw that breaks the camel's back' point for me, as I'm sure it does for others - and it will depend on the individual as to what that point is... Still on the wall about the LNER farewell set myself...

 

42 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

I await the FGW set I have ordered, sceptical of the results!

 

I am looking forward to the FGW set too. I live just north of Oxford so I used to see the FGW (and GWR) HSTs fairly regularly. Sadly, it has got to the stage where I don't feel confident placing pre-order for Hornby products - having ordered too many things in the past which have turned up with livery or other issues (IIRC the R4371A buffet for the previous release FGW Dynamic Lines HST was the last time I pre-ordered, which was then produced with the roof for the TS/TF so lacked the vents - and who would have predicted that coming as an error?). I now generally wait until I see the actual production models before deciding whether to buy, and so take the risk of them becoming sold out.

 

Incidentally, I contacted Hornby a while back about the coach letter of the FGW buffet R40035, which is listed as Coach K in all the literature. However, with the rest of the coaches it forms a TGS-TS-TSD-TS-TS-TRFB-TFD-TF set so the coaches should be A-H in that order, i.e., the buffet should be Coach F. The prototypes were then changed to A-B-C-D-E-K-L-M immediately prior to the conversion of the TF (Coach M) vehicles in each set to a TS (which then became Coach F in converted sets) - so Coach K buffets were never in sets with Coach G and Coach H TFs - these being the letters Hornby have stated will be on the TFs R40036/R40036A. The reply to my query from a member of the developement team was:

"I believe it [the TRFB] actually is being produced as coach F, I suspect this was undecided at the time the titles were decided as we’ve had a lot of confusion about which formations we’d actually model."

So we will see... I'd quite like it to be Coach F so I can replace the R4371A in my other set!

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I didnt quite get the interest in this set myself…

a one off rake for 1 week in service, 2 years ago.

 

its marginal for me at best, the recent price increase moved it off the edge it was clinging too on my radar, but seeing that image just makes me laugh at it.

 

tbh I hope its just a few, as really its a faulty reject and should be sent back.

if all the coaches are like that, who is going to buy the £300 power cars ?

 

So the 31/1 thats a 31/4, the GBRF ‘s 50’s that are a more Tangerine less Tango.. the 60 with misprint logos and now these…

There is a distinct pattern forming here..

Edited by adb968008
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9 hours ago, scouse889 said:

I believe the power cars were repainted in Craigentinny and the coaches in Wabtec at Doncaster - perhaps someone can correct me if this is wrong?

Correct. In the recently released "Intercity 125 High Speed Tribute" bookazine there are 6 pages about the LNER farewell tour including an interview the Heritage Painting MD who repainted the power cars and 2 pics of them rubbed down almost to the metal prior to painting.

 

 

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11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I didnt quite get the interest in this set myself…

a one off rake for 1 week in service, 2 years ago.

 

its marginal for me at best, the recent price increase moved it off the edge it was clinging too on my radar, but seeing that image just makes me laugh at it.

 

tbh I hope its just a few, as really its a faulty reject and should be sent back.

if all the coaches are like that, who is going to buy the £300 power cars ?

 

So the 31/1 thats a 31/4, the GBRF ‘s 50’s that are a more Tangerine less Tango.. the 60 with misprint logos and now these…

There is a distinct pattern forming here..

And also not forgetting the 'glow in the dark' DVT's.

 

Incidentally did Hornby not check these (as in the LNER farewell Mk3's) before they went out?

 

EDIT I wonder if this is one particular factory?

Edited by jonathan452
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11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So the 31/1 thats a 31/4, the GBRF ‘s 50’s that are a more Tangerine less Tango.. the 60 with misprint logos and now these…

There is a distinct pattern forming here..

 

18 minutes ago, jonathan452 said:

And also not forgetting the 'glow in the dark' DVT's.

 

And the Flying Banana NMT HST power cars with matching banana-shaped writing on the sides....

Hornby do seem to have a significant ongoing issue with QC on a lot of their models, which arrive with completely avoidable factory errors. The 60 was particularly odd because the box art had the logo in the right place, so it just goes to show how you can't trust the renders in the catalogue and on the website to faithfully reflect the production models.

To be fair to Hornby, they re-issued both the construction 60 with corrected logos and NMT power cars with corrected bodyside text, and made these bodyshells available FOC for anyone who had an affected model and contacted customer services; anyone can make a mistake and so how it is dealt with afterwards is also an important factor.

I wonder if the LNER IC125 power cars will have the line problem on them?

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3 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

Well aside from the aforementioned line it seems Hornby have done a nice job. :good:

 The only problem is now youve seen that line its hard to ignore !

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32 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

Well aside from the aforementioned line it seems Hornby have done a nice job. :good:

One thing that really stands out and spoils the look is the over scale window frames (depth), they seem to be much too prominent unlike the prototype.

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24 minutes ago, The 158 Man said:

 

True but for a model that is classed as "old" tooling these days it's not that bad. When running it wouldn't be as noticeable.

If that’s the case, fair enough but it needs addressing in the next iteration.

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4 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

I wouldn't hold your breath.

Pretty sure Paul Isles (might be wrong on the spelling, now at Accurascale), did the mk3sd project and said Hornby had no plans for a new mk3. But, if the Hst and MK3 is done, they now have the Oxford tooling to use. We’ve seen how kholer feels about Hornby producing the ‘legacy’ stuff and how they will defend their range. The Hst is of that ilk. Just hope accurascale, or others explore this market. 

Edited by Class 158 productions
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27 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

Pretty sure Paul Isles (might be wrong on the spelling, now at Accurascale), did the mk3sd project and said Hornby had no plans for a new mk3. But, if the Hst and MK3 is done, they now have the Oxford tooling to use. We’ve seen how kholer feels about Hornby producing the ‘legacy’ stuff and hoe they will defend their range. The Hst is of that ilk. Just hope accurascale, or others explore this market. 

The Oxford tooling is the wrong scale is it not?

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30 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

The Oxford tooling is the wrong scale is it not?

 

And am I right in thinking that the Oxford Rail tooling is for the loco hauled Mk 3a and/or 3b stock rather than the HST stock? I think Oxford had plans to expand its Mk3 range to HST vehicles but never did so.

Certainly no TGS has been released in the Oxford range, so unless tooling exists behind the scenes it would seem retrograde in fact to switch from Hornby/ex-Lima mix for the HSTs to ex-Oxford Rail/ex-Lima mix instead!

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Images of all the LNER farewell coaches (with the exception of the yet-to-be-released buffet) are now available to view on KMRC's website, and the "line" issue is clearly present on all of them - it appears in these pictures as a lighter area between the lower body blue and the upper grey. I wonder if it is an overspray where a thicker grey stripe has been printed (on purpose or by mistake?) and then partially overprinted with blue - which just hasn't quite worked? Anyway, I've decided to take the plunge and have ordered one so I can see it for myself and decide whether I want the rest or not!

 

7 hours ago, The 158 Man said:

Well aside from the aforementioned line it seems Hornby have done a nice job. :good:

 

Completely agreed, otherwise they do look the part. At the risk of saying something highly controversial here, even the shade of blue looks good - looks to have changed to a much lighter shade than used on the recent MkIIf and MkI RMB vehicles.

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Sigh! and another longer Sigh. (and another sigh plopped in for good measure).

 

This is just unfortunately typical Hornby of late.  Giving us product that just isnt up to their usual standard.   

 

The Farewell MK3's (which thankfully I cancelled my pre order of a few months ago - phew!!) are riddled with errors and flaws and basic poor manufacturing quality.

 

The glaring paint error that runs the length of these coaches is an obvious flaw.  Don’t the factory have any care/pride in producing this stuff? Does anyone check it? Does anyone check it when it arrives in the UK?, or are they now too nervous to do that as there will probably be issues?

 

They the wonky lettering on the TGS, the running number is off the level.

 

The green door unlock...not sure if that was ever green, happy to be proved wrong.

 

What the factories are churning out just isn’t good enough.  The Hornby MK3 coach is a decent model and I like it. It captures the look and feel of the simple looking MK3 well and whilst its not got the added detail of the Oxford Model it does the job. It’s a robust, well tooled and has a decent coupler, not any of these useless body mounted pivots like the mk3SD and Oxford mk3. 


But manufacturing errors at the factory like the ones above are unforgiveable.  I have read comments saying 'it isnt that noticeable' etc.   Id reply; would you accept other products with flaws on it?  Why do people think its ok to accept second rate stuff just because its 'only a model'?

 

This isn’t a direct salvo at Hornby. But more the factories they are using. We’ve had a line of unacceptable stuff in red boxes this year! 

 

Bachmann, Accurascale, Cavalex all manage to produce stuff without glaring errors in their factories.  So Why should Hornby production be any different?

 

finally, I’m sure the top brass at Hornby will be frustrated by this latest livery cock up. If they aren’t, they should be. 

Edited by DaveClass47
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When it comes to presentation, I don’t see “modern image”, I see “that’ll do”.

 

I wonder if we are in a spiral, in that errors come along, people shrug shoulders and walk past, resulting in lower sales, that translates to management as “modern doesnt sell” ?

 

I think the bar for minimum viable product is set much lower on anything post 1968.
 

Maybe modern just isnt Hornbys interest and we should accept it, there are several emerging alternatives?

 

With mk3’s like this, its a matter of time before someone else makes a mk3.

 

What now for the power cars ? The coaches might be soaked up eventually in the kids market and those who dont care, but £329 power cars?  Its a shame, I keep hoping the full Blue Grey set would be preserved, but after 2 years i’d say thats now starting to look unlikely…

 

flickr url.. not my image

IMG_1298

I won’t be buying those mk3’s, so if I bought the power cars mine would look like this too.

 

if the power cars end up being used on low speed onsite HS2 construction traffic, then I might have a use for them on my layout, I cant think of any other future for them.

Edited by adb968008
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11 hours ago, DaveClass47 said:

They the wonky lettering on the TGS, the running number is off the level.

 

The green door unlock...not sure if that was ever green, happy to be proved wrong.

The lettering was straight on my TGS. The EDR handle is green on the real train with a white background and a body coloured surround. Hornby have painted the frame around the handle white and represented a red handle with a green background.  Hornby have silver door handles, these were yellow on the real train. CB401E4D-111E-467E-BDDE-9D59B4BD6875.jpeg.e057cb54780574cd7469cd870ec89cb6.jpeg8714804E-39B7-4385-9628-E861825DDD1D.jpeg.b2b3c814440e24018dee4b207bc4f8c9.jpeg

Edited by AndrewB7585
Clarified colour of EDR
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16 minutes ago, AndrewB7585 said:

The lettering was straight on my TGS. The EDR handle is green on the real train with a white background and a body coloured surround. Hornby have painted the frame around the handle white and represented a red handle with a green background.  Hornby have silver door handles, these were yellow on the real train. CB401E4D-111E-467E-BDDE-9D59B4BD6875.jpeg.e057cb54780574cd7469cd870ec89cb6.jpeg8714804E-39B7-4385-9628-E861825DDD1D.jpeg.b2b3c814440e24018dee4b207bc4f8c9.jpeg

That numbering is off the level on examples. And the inter-city 125 was also Wonky on the examples I saw up close. The flawed line just says it all….no care and attention, no checking at the factory or distribution. A real shame as these coaches would have looked stunning next to the power cars…when ever they should arrive. 

36C60238-E5AF-4E66-97A6-C82B59F0BC83.jpeg

Edited by DaveClass47
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Again, Hornbys consistent errors and lack of liveries really do make me clamour for new models from others. The 31,50 have all been discussed I just hope for a new HST and MK3. I would like to see the FGW samples after this latest failure. It is really disappointing after the price rise which in some cases is charging nearly £40 for an old Lima tooling. The powercars themselves are good, but at £329. The shape issue becomes even more apparent, the incorrect number of slats on the side, lack of variations for MML sets and huge gaps in the livery just sum up hornbys lack of care for the modern modeller. I appreciate that they still do HSTs but at this standard with so many flaws, why bother. Their QC has been bad for getting on 5/6 years. 

Edited by Class 158 productions
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9 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

Again, Hornbys consistent errors and lack of liveries really do make me clamour for new models from others. The 31,50 have all been discussed I just hope for a new HST and MK3. I would like to see the FGW samples after this latest failure. It is really disappointing after the price rise which in some cases is charging nearly £40 for an old Lima tooling. The powercars themselves are good, but at £329. The shape issue becomes even more apparent, the incorrect number of slats on the side, lack of variations for MML sets and huge gaps in the livery just sum up hornbys lack of care for the modern modeller. I appreciate that they still do HSTs but at this standard with so many flaws, why bother. Their QC has been bad for getting on 5/6 years. 

 

Add in those moulding lines on the cab of Hornby's power cars too. I just don't get how Lima managed to perfectly capture the face of a HST Power Car 40 years ago (without any additional moulding lines), yet Hornby still can't get it right. 

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