Hornby 2021 - Mk 4 coaching stock with DVTs

[james-htfc]

My first choice would've been Mallard sets for the GNER set too, to match the previously released HST. However, I'm currently updating the old tooling versions which is a Mallard set, so will be able to have both versions as per the transition period between 2003 and 2005.

Hopefully they do the red door versions in the future with the updates (e.g. blanked out windows on the service vehicle, WiFi dome on the DVT etc.), but at least the original version will allow me to run with alternative traction such as Railfreight 90s and potentially an 89 if that comes to fruition!

[scottrains29]

2 hours ago, James90012 said:

Would have preferred a Mallard set but as I'm modelling the WCML anyway, it's neither here nor there!

Us Scottish modellers get away with it as the 225's have always run on the WCML from Glasgow, through Motherwell to Carstairs and on the extension to Edinburgh.

Likewise, West Coast operators run to Edinburgh in the East.

[AndrewB7585]

Here are the CAD images from the Hornby catalog. Looks good to me 

[MGR Hooper!]

34 minutes ago, AndrewB7585 said:

Here are the CAD images from the Hornby catalog. Looks good to me 

 

Thank you for sharing that. I'm quite pleased with what I see. Looking forward to it. 

 

Now Hornby, where's the Mk3 coaches to these standards??? 

Edited January 8, 2021 by MGR Hooper!

[rockmonkey]

I see the coach lettering for the Intercity livery is listed as B-M, the original coach lettering started at A.  I believe the change to standardise the coach lettering with the HST trains was when Mallard refurbishment was undertaken in GNER days so both the intercity and GNER livery coach letters will be wrong.  A minor point which would be good to feed back to the Hornby development team - anyone have a contact email?

[Roddy Angus]

I may be wrong but was the first coach "A" at the locomotive end and "B" at the other end?  Was the first door only for the train crew's use and the "B" end door for passenger use?

 

Regards

 

Roddy

[Markwj]

11 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

With the current state of affairs, if I bought the catalogue, it would be another 3 months until I even got it at best. 

 

As for copyright infringement, whilst that may be an issue, it doesn't look like Hornby mind it. Hornby themselves are actively re-posting images from various customers who uploaded images of their catalogue on Instagram. 

 

But if it is an issue here, then so be it. No harm in asking. 

I honestly don’t know if it is a big issue but didn’t want anyone to get in bother

[adb968008]

On 08/01/2021 at 13:35, scottrains29 said:

Us Scottish modellers get away with it as the 225's have always run on the WCML from Glasgow, through Motherwell to Carstairs and on the extension to Edinburgh.

Likewise, West Coast operators run to Edinburgh in the East.

Quite so...

 

Glasgow Central
 

 

 

Location unknown, but on my way to Glasgow central, the 82/2 + 91 heading south encountered some drama,  as Ive a procession of pictures like this on the film.. 05/1990.

 

 

 

my train was a Manchester-Glasgow, but somehow got an 87 from Preston.

 

Things havent changed too much, heres an Azuma, next to a Pendolino at Glasgow Central in October 2019,.. which was the first time i’d been to Glasgow central since the above pictures.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008

[rockmonkey]

3 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

I may be wrong but was the first coach "A" at the locomotive end and "B" at the other end?  Was the first door only for the train crew's use and the "B" end door for passenger use?

 

Regards

 

Roddy

 

The first coach with "A" at the locomotive end and "B" at the other end was only on the HST sets only - A being for cycles/large luggage. 

 

The attached plan shows the full mk4/225 train layout with coach lettering for the GNER Mallard refurbishment, it also includes the original coach lettering for swallow intercity / early GNER. 

[RyanN91]

The CAD images of the MK4 coaching stock look amazing! I can't wait to receive mine along with the BR Class 91, Class 43 DVT BR MK3 DVT and BR MK4 DVT!  all BREL products this along with BR Class 43 HST power cars, BR MK3 coaches, BR Class 370 APT-P, Cheshire North West , Derbyshire  East Midlands (from two of our beautiful English counties)  long with Metro-Cammell Washwood Heath Birmingham West Midlands the heart of British industry all of these together mark fantastic history of British railways transport history of the late 20th centenary engineering products finally all of InterCity 125 Class 253 Western Region 40th Anniversary 2016, InterCity APT 2020 and InterCity 225 2021, will all look amazing all together on layouts! all together in 2020s tooling!  I  just hope that when all this Covid is over I can visit Northern England and The Midlands again! The Cumbria Settle to Carlisle line, I want to visit Cheshire and Derbyshire even Staffordshire and beautiful Shropshire the Peak district national parks villages etc and  of course for the amazing Crewe Heritage Centre again as I  haven't been for there a number of years as it is very out the way living at the bottom of England even though I live just a 10 minute drive away from Dartmoor national park!  Also I need to visit North Yorkshire, York Cathedral is beautiful and  for the amazing NRM  I haven't been for a few years as well! I spent the last few  hours on my last visit sat on the balcony outside watching all the Virgin East Coast InterCity 225 trains ( that's how long ago it was!) and in Carlisle watching the Virgin Trains Pendolinos and BR Class 142 pacers in Arriva Rail North livery (As we sadly don't have these now by GWR just BR Class 143 pacers. in 2018 I even went to Ashford Kent South East just to view the Eurostars!

 

 

[Wild Boar Fell]

18 hours ago, AndrewB7585 said:

Here are the CAD images from the Hornby catalog. Looks good to me 

 

That TOE is looking sharp, looking at the end detail, I would say as shown there was for a vehicle post Wi-Fi fitment but pre 67/ Wales conversion.

[James90012]

22 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Where on the WCML? You could do diverts north of Carlisle perhaps?

The Manchester / Potteries area I'm afraid!

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

13 hours ago, rockmonkey said:

 

The first coach with "A" at the locomotive end and "B" at the other end was only on the HST sets only - A being for cycles/large luggage. 

 

The attached plan shows the full mk4/225 train layout with coach lettering for the GNER Mallard refurbishment, it also includes the original coach lettering for swallow intercity / early GNER. 

Thanks for at least confirming for me that everyone in the last five pages rabbiting on about Mk4 TSO, TSOD and TFO was barking up the wrong tree! I was 95% sure they were classified TO etc and I'm 99% sure the T stood for Tourist, not Trailer but hadn't got round to looking it up.

[adb968008]

On 08/01/2021 at 12:31, TomScrut said:

 

Where on the WCML? You could do diverts north of Carlisle perhaps?

 

On 09/01/2021 at 11:02, James90012 said:

The Manchester / Potteries area I'm afraid!

Given that between London and Carstairs the ECML and WCML dont touch.. it could be a fictional divert, due to some engineering works on the ECML north of York.

 

The Sleepers do the opposite occasionally and head to Scotland up the ECML from London, sometimes they use KX too.

 

More than a few times Ive been at Carlilse when ECML diverts have happened, in those cases ECML HSTs, and the odd 67 drag.

 

[TomScrut]

 

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Given that between London and Carstairs the ECML and WCML dont touch.. it could be a fictional divert, due to some engineering works on the ECML north of York.

 

The Sleepers do the opposite occasionally and head to Scotland up the ECML from London, sometimes they use KX too.

 

More than a few times Ive been at Carlilse when ECML diverts have happened, in those cases ECML HSTs, and the odd 67 drag.

 

Traditionally they used HSTs 91/67 as you say, now they either use 9 car 800s OR 5 car 800 with 5 car 801 with all 4 engines at it.

 

OTOH I cannot think of any WCML diverts going down the ECML other than the CS services you mention which has me flirting with some CS mk5s.

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

Traditionally they used HSTs 91/67 as you say, now they either use 9 car 800s OR 5 car 800 with 5 car 801 with all 4 engines at it.

 

OTOH I cannot think of any WCML diverts going down the ECML other than the CS services you mention which has me flirting with some CS mk5s.

Ironically it was the introduction of electric locos and Mk4's that killed off a lot of ECML diverting, suddenly the ability to swing off via Cambridge or up the Joint suddenly became a long drawn out affair requiring the additional use of a suitably powerful ETH fitted loco. Even historically the WCML south of Carlisle has never been a diversion for ECML traffic though...

[Rhydgaled]

On 09/01/2021 at 11:57, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Thanks for at least confirming for me that everyone in the last five pages rabbiting on about Mk4 TSO, TSOD and TFO was barking up the wrong tree! I was 95% sure they were classified TO etc and I'm 99% sure the T stood for Tourist, not Trailer but hadn't got round to looking it up.

I knew the first class and buffet were (at least initially, I forget whether they still are) known as PO (Pullman Open) and SV (Service Vehicle) but do sometimes refer to them as FO and RFO either because of a momentary lapse of that knowledge, or because I'm not sure others would know what I was on about, or (in the case of the buffet), I want to be clear regarding the classification of the seating (they were of course changed from first to standard at the Mallard refurb, but SV doesn't tell you that). I didn't know the standard class vehicles were listed as TO (I think I've seen them listed as TSO or SO elsewhere, but that might be from listings written by people like me who didn't know better). Given the lack of an 'S' for 'Standard' and the lack of a 'T' for Trailer on the PO and SV then my guess is that you are correct and the 'T' stands for Tourist on the mark 4s.

 

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Given that between London and Carstairs the ECML and WCML dont touch.. it could be a fictional divert, due to some engineering works on the ECML north of York.

Is York to Northallerton double-track or three/four tracks? And has it ever been closed for engineering? My guess would be that, if it did, the obvious diversionary route would be via Leeds and Skipton and from there dragged via Settle to Carlisle unless there is a north-facing junction at Carnforth where they could join the WCML. To get a drag over to Manchester you would need the ECML to be shut further south still and either go Grantham to Stoke via Nottingham and Derby or perhaps Retford to Manchester via Sheffield if there are junctions facing the right way.

 

4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

Traditionally they used HSTs 91/67 as you say, now they either use 9 car 800s OR 5 car 800 with 5 car 801 with all 4 engines at it.

 

OTOH I cannot think of any WCML diverts going down the ECML other than the CS services you mention which has me flirting with some CS mk5s.

Interesting; I hadn't thought that they might use 801s via Carlisle. I'd have thought it would be exclusively 800s with the 801s restricted to London - Leeds/Newcastle. Going back to WCML diverts, assuming it is at least four tracks south of where the Northampton route rejoins the main trunk, there are effectively two seperate electrified routes south of Crewe which presumably means they can keep at least two tracks available throughout most engineering work. Unless there was an all-lines block at Rugby...

[Steven B]

At lease one Class 91 + Mk4 set did get to Manchester:

https://flic.kr/p/h1UrSJ

https://flic.kr/p/h1UwFm

https://flic.kr/p/h1Us4g

 

It may not have been a standard set - I believe it was linked with Manchester's bid to host either the Olympic or Commonwealth Games.

 

Steven B.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Steven B

[GordonC]

2 hours ago, Steven B said:

At lease one Class 91 + Mk4 set did get to Manchester:

https://flic.kr/p/h1UrSJ

https://flic.kr/p/h1UwFm

https://flic.kr/p/h1Us4g

 

It may not have been a standard set - I believe it was linked with Manchester's bid to host either the Olympic or Commonwealth Games.

 

Steven B.

 

there was also a special ran to promote a bid for extra money to build more Class 91 sets for the WCML.

[guarded]

I'm looking to build a full length 1989 train in original livery.Would somebody be kind enough to tell me which coaches I need to order please?

Edited January 11, 2021 by guarded

[InterCity80s]

These ones:

[InterCity80s]

Re the coach classification, Eversholt (who own them) have them classified as POS, POD, PO, SV, TOD, TO, TOE on their website ( https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/mark-iv/ ).

 

In my Key Publishing Rolling Stock Review, however, they're listed as FO, FOD, RSB, TSOD, TSO, TSOE.

 

 

[TomScrut]

49 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

Re the coach classification, Eversholt (who own them) have them classified as POS, POD, PO, SV, TOD, TO, TOE on their website

 

Which does possibly explain why the 3 firsts have 3 different R numbers although I don't know the difference between POS and PO

[InterCity80s]

Me neither but they list the POS as being the coach coupled to the DVT if that makes any difference?

[InterCity80s]

They list the unit formation as: DVT-POS-POD-PO-SV-TOD-TO-TO-TO-TOE