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Hornby 2021 - Mk 4 coaching stock with DVTs


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On 25/06/2021 at 16:43, QuoitsPlayer said:

More pictures in this week's engine shed:

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/marked-progress 

 

Not a Mk4 expert but they look good and I'd query if the new coupling is a Hornby version of Hunt Couplings. The close coupling looks very good :)

Looking good,

Although hoping that Hornby have an alternative end tooling for at least the TOE on the TfWR vehicles. In theory all other (TfWR) vehicles should be missing the aero baffles on the non-drivers side (relative to the DVT cab).

 

Also noted is the WiFi connection on the TOE sample shown, which is correct for the post Mallard vehicles Hornby are now doing I believe. 

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  • 4 months later...

I wasn’t expecting these to be in the red door version, I guess mainly because the photo used of the entire set didn’t have them! It may have totally passed me by that this was the plan all along though!  

 

They seem to have gained these around 2004 looking at pictures (was this during the Mallard refurb?) and it became NX in 2008 and then the white stripe was added.

 

I always liked GNER livery, although my preference was always the original version without red doors! 
 

 

Edited by Global
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42 minutes ago, Global said:

I wasn’t expecting these to be in the red door version, I guess mainly because the photo used of the entire set didn’t have them! It may have totally passed me by that this was the plan all along though!  

 

They seem to have gained these around 2004 looking at pictures (was this during the Mallard refurb?) and it became NX in 2008 and then the white stripe was added.

 

I always liked GNER livery, although my preference was always the original version without red doors! 
 

 

 

I believe the original plan was to do a set of the pre-Mallard coaches (without the red doors), but then Hornby released a statement several months back that they had changed to the post-Mallard refurb vehicles (and added/dropped some model numbers to/from the set). I guess this made more sense given the GNER 91 released to go with them is 91117 - so post 91/1 refurb, which was some point between about 2000-2003 (not sure when this particular loco went through its refurb though). I believe the Mallard refurb of the coaches started at the end of 2003.

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50 minutes ago, Global said:

I always liked GNER livery, although my preference was always the original version without red doors!

 

It was a nice livery and suited them well. Hopefully Hornby will get round to doing all these variations in the end. I'd like an un-named Intercity 91 in as-built condition to run with the forthcoming blue/grey sleeper coaches and HST DVT as a test train, as I think that would be something very different (especially if they do a representation of Test Car 10 as well - but I digress).

I think only the first ten or so locos ran with the DVTs and the sleepers in these test train formations.... perhaps someone can correct me here if this is not right?

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1 hour ago, Global said:

I always liked GNER livery, although my preference was always the original version without red doors! 

Yeah, I prefer the pre-Mallard versions as well. Maybe they'll do them at some point in the future.

 

Either way, it's definitely one of my favourite post-privatisation liveries.

Edited by InterCity80s
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They’re looking great. Just what those of us of a certain persuasion have been after, after all these years! I think the coupling arrangement is an excellent solution from. I don’t know if it’s me, the lighting, or both, but the red doors look a touch bright? Either way, when these and the 91s are out, it’ll be a special train. 
 

Original GNER for the rails 89 and east coast grey next??!!
 

Oh dear, I’m turning into one of those people getting funny about colours!

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2 hours ago, scouse889 said:

 

Yes, looking very good indeed. I'm liking the close coupling on these too, looks a vast improvement over the Mk3SDs.

Yes, it does look good. I wonder if they're magnetic.

Just a shame no rtr manufacturer has yet produced a flexible rubber/silicone gangway to fully eliminate the gap.

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16 minutes ago, scottrains29 said:

Yes, it does look good. I wonder if they're magnetic.

 

I'm sure I read somewhere (further up this thread?! :jester:) that they were. I seem to remember they were featured in an earlier TES but I cannot find it now.... I'll have another look later.

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1 hour ago, scouse889 said:

 

I'm sure I read somewhere (further up this thread?! :jester:) that they were. I seem to remember they were featured in an earlier TES but I cannot find it now.... I'll have another look later.


D’oh! Last post of the previous page. Not magnetic, I must be getting confused! Or perhaps I just wanted them to be magnetic?

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18 hours ago, scouse889 said:


D’oh! Last post of the previous page. Not magnetic, I must be getting confused! Or perhaps I just wanted them to be magnetic?

Interesting - I wonder how they work then if not magnetic - they certainly look nice and discreet. The side on images do look rather as though they’re ‘jacked up’ standing up on ‘tip toes’ . I’m guessing that to negotiate sharp curves they’ve had to add some clearance in order to get the bogie to swing fully without the flanges to hitting the bottom of the coach. It does beg the question therefore, are they too high overall ?    

 

I’m sure there’s an argument for P4 in there somewhere ! 


tfn

 

jon


 

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41 minutes ago, 43179 said:

Interesting - I wonder how they work then if not magnetic - they certainly look nice and discreet. The side on images do look rather as though they’re ‘jacked up’ standing up on ‘tip toes’ . I’m guessing that to negotiate sharp curves they’ve had to add some clearance in order to get the bogie to swing fully without the flanges to hitting the bottom of the coach. It does beg the question therefore, are they too high overall ?    

 

I’m sure there’s an argument for P4 in there somewhere ! 


tfn

 

jon


 

 

Looks like they are a rigid bar with NEM dovetails at either end, moulded to look like couplings joined in the middle - a bit like some of the less fancy arrangements used by Dapol on a number of their wagons (MJA, Turbot, IDA, etc) or the Bachmann close coupling which resembles pipes between the coaches. I am sure Hunt Couplings will soon release a bespoke magnet-based coupling system for them!

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These really are looking good, and a vast improvement over the original versions with having all the different variations properly catered for, including the TSOE and post-Mallard refurbished vehicles.

Did you happen to notice if the model of 91111 For The Fallen had a VTEC logo or LNER logo on the rear cab?

It always struck me as a bit odd that Hornby originally announced 91111 with VTEC branding and the standard loco 91118 with LNER branding, then announced one rake of coaches with LNER liveried DVT - so effectively giving VTEC 91111 nothing to run with. I always thought it would seem more sensible to put an LNER logo on the back of 91111 and then the LNER coach and DVT set would be suitable for use with either 91111 or 91118.... they could even then just release another LNER DVT with a different number (like they have done with the ATW DVTs) and would probably sell people two full sets of the LNER coaches/DVTs plus the two locos - I'd certainly be considering two full sets!

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2 hours ago, scouse889 said:

I always thought it would seem more sensible to put an LNER logo on the back of 91111 and then the LNER coach and DVT set would be suitable for use with either 91111 or 91118

91111 has never carried the LNER logo. It retained the Virgin logo for a short while into the LNER franchise, before they were removed and not replaced by anything else. So for a period it was possible to see the loco with a Virgin Trains logo, working with an LNER branded DVT. It's a little tenuous, but hopefully that makes sense!

 

Screenshot_20211101-120916_Gallery.jpg.fa5285b4cc34b66ba5c95f296f1e030e.jpg

28/05/2021 at York. My photo.

 

Jack

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28 minutes ago, njee20 said:

The GNER blue looks too light to me? Shades (no pun intended!) of the GBRf 50s. 

 

It certainly looks darker than the shade employed on all of the previous Mallard releases though. The original dark shade used by Hornby on 91019 in R2002 always seemed pretty good to me, then it became a lot lighter for 91023 in R2002A  and all of the subsequent releases, including 91129, 91110 and 91122 in the Mallard packs (R2427/R2427A/R2602), which never really looked right to my eyes. It will be interesting to see how the blue used on these latest releases compares to the previously used shades.

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27 minutes ago, Jack Mc said:

91111 has never carried the LNER logo. It retained the Virgin logo for a short while into the LNER franchise, before they were removed and not replaced by anything else. So for a period it was possible to see the loco with a Virgin Trains logo, working with an LNER branded DVT. It's a little tenuous, but hopefully that makes sense!

 

Thanks for this, I never knew that. Perhaps I am getting it confused with 43238 which did have the Virgin replaced with LNER at the back?

I guess I am still a bit mystified why Hornby have chosen to put the Virgin branding on the back of it though, given their other releases it seems more sensible (correct for a longer time frame) to leave it without any branding...!

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14 hours ago, scouse889 said:

These really are looking good, and a vast improvement over the original versions with having all the different variations properly catered for, including the TSOE and post-Mallard refurbished vehicles.

Did you happen to notice if the model of 91111 For The Fallen had a VTEC logo or LNER logo on the rear cab?

It always struck me as a bit odd that Hornby originally announced 91111 with VTEC branding and the standard loco 91118 with LNER branding, then announced one rake of coaches with LNER liveried DVT - so effectively giving VTEC 91111 nothing to run with. I always thought it would seem more sensible to put an LNER logo on the back of 91111 and then the LNER coach and DVT set would be suitable for use with either 91111 or 91118.... they could even then just release another LNER DVT with a different number (like they have done with the ATW DVTs) and would probably sell people two full sets of the LNER coaches/DVTs plus the two locos - I'd certainly be considering two full sets!

 

I think what will happen is similar to the LNER/Virgin EC HST, in that Hornby released the limited edition 43238 pack and the standard pack and one set of coaches and the coaches went very quickly and they needed to do a second run with different running numbers. I'm expecting that next year will come with more Mk.4's in Virgin livery released. From what I've seen 91111 has a Virgin logo on the model, so possibly Virgin DVT to come next year?

 

I'm also really hoping we get a re-run in East Coast Grey too as mentioned above next year, maybe they could tie it in with the appropriate HST and Mk.3's being released too... as those are like rocking horse s**t.

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9 hours ago, XChris said:

I'm also really hoping we get a re-run in East Coast Grey too as mentioned above next year

 

I aren't sure how likely I see there being more mk4s next year, given what is already announced (in general, not just these) is looking like middle of next year already and if we are lucky the ones from this year will only just be here when the announcements are made. I expect though they'll want to capitalise on the tooling with every livery in due course.

 

9 hours ago, XChris said:

From what I've seen 91111 has a Virgin logo on the model, so possibly Virgin DVT to come next year?

 

Having said the above that is probably an easy one to do, depending on what sales look like for the coaches. If coaches are about sold out then why do the DVT, if the coaches are still about then the DVT may help shift them.

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36 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I aren't sure how likely I see there being more mk4s next year, given what is already announced (in general, not just these) is looking like middle of next year already and if we are lucky the ones from this year will only just be here when the announcements are made. I expect though they'll want to capitalise on the tooling with every livery in due course.

 

 

Having said the above that is probably an easy one to do, depending on what sales look like for the coaches. If coaches are about sold out then why do the DVT, if the coaches are still about then the DVT may help shift them.

 

It would make sense if they did capitalise on the tooling they have, but Hornby dont tend to go through every livery combination quickly, e.g. how long did it take to get an Intercity Executive HST and even then the branding was silver rather than white and things like Class 31s have obvious gaps in what has been produced 20 years later.

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2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

It would make sense if they did capitalise on the tooling they have, but Hornby dont tend to go through every livery combination quickly, e.g. how long did it take to get an Intercity Executive HST and even then the branding was silver rather than white and things like Class 31s have obvious gaps in what has been produced 20 years later.

 

Agreed, Hornby don't release things very quickly (still waiting for a 60 in Railfreight Metal sector myself - and a coal one in the correct colours would be nice, but I digress), although on the other hand they do tend to have at least one or two models of each class on average in the range every year. So when you take this approach with the 60s and 43s, which are quite numerous and have worn lots of liveries over the years, it takes a while for each livery to come round. But then compare that with the 67s, for instance, and I think Hornby have done pretty much every livery ever worn by the class, in may cases in duplicate and triplicate, plus some of the one-offs, because there just isn't the same variation as for some of the other classes. In this regard the 91s are quite similar and so are a good choice for Hornby. Off the top of my head:

1. as built Intercity Swallow

2. GNER gold 91/0

3. experimental GNER silver 91/0

4. refurb GNER gold 91/1

5. NXEC branded ex-GNER

6. NXEC (only one loco, 91111, IIRC?)

7. East Coast branded ex-GNER

8. East Coast branded ex-NXEC (91111)

9. East Coast

10. Virgin branded ex-East Coast

11. VTEC

12. LNER

13. Europhoenix

14. 91119 re-created Swallow

other one-offs:

15. Flying Scotsman

16. For The Fallen

17. Skyfall

18. Sky TV??

I guess these will have subtle variations depending on operator/timeframe, as we have already been talking about with 91111 For The Fallen.

But I think that's pretty much it? So, a few more than 20 in total including every single variation of basic liveries, including variations of one-offs (!), and we have 4 locos to kick off with in the initial releases, so not going to be too long before there must be some duplication in livery - you would imagine Hornby will want to maximise profit from their new tooling investment by releasing more soon (assuming they are good sellers), and I guess it would be good for them to do this at least in part before the real locos disappear from the UK for ever.

 

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