"Best" RTR Class 47 model in OO - opinions sought

[SteveyDee68]

Asking the combined wisdom of RMWeb...

 

Which is the "best" model of a class 47 in OO? I need to buy a single example of a class 47/0 loco in two tone green livery for my planned layout, and therefore wondered which manufacturer produced the most accurate/best performing model?

 

As far as I can tell, the choices are:

 

Hornby

Lima

"Limby"

Bachmann

Heljan

ViTrains

 

I am guessing that the latter three manufacturers run rings around the first three...

 

Any recommendations and/or pitfalls? Several are on eBay at the moment at reasonable prices!

 

I suppose I am asking how long is a piece of string, but would value opinions/experiences.

 

Many thanks!

 

Steve S

[ikcdab]

I bought the Bachmann one several years ago. Well, I bought the chassis and body separately on eBay as good prices.

I love it, excellent runner and (as far as I can tell) is an accurate portrayal.

It's the best as far as I am concerned.

Ian 

[spamcan61]

Probably some relevant info in this thread:-

 

There's also been a discussion in the recent past I can't find via search

Edited December 17, 2020 by spamcan61

[Legend]

I think the Bachmann one is your best bet , followed by Heljan   if you can accept the Heljan one is  slightly too wide . I have both and they are very good runners and honestly don't notice width difference . If you are looking for 2 tone green I think these are your best bets 

 

As far as I'm aware Limby isn't available 2 tone green  . I have a large logo blue one and again its fine . Lovely smooth mechanism , but definitely lighter on its feet than Bachmann or Heljan which you feel are more solidly constructed

 

Lima , bodywise OK . It will be noisy  . I think fine if you on budget

 

Hornby , well could go as far back as 1975. Ringfield motor , was ok for its time. I have one which is currently running on my layout pulling 5 Bachmann mk1s . Its got charm but certainly eclipsed by Bachmann / Heljan . 

 

No experience of Vi Trains . Did they do two tone green ?

 

Hope this helps

[cheesysmith]

The answer is how long is a piece of string lol

 

Seriously, what are you after?

 

If you just want a ready to plonk, Bachmann or vi trains (the latter is one of the underrated models around).

 

If you want one you can improve and work on yourself, limby.

 

If you want running quality, either Heljan, Bachmann or vi trains (i know people say about the faults on the Heljan version, but i have a fleet of them that run beautifully, and will pull anything asked of them).

[Waverley West]

It's the Bachmann one for me. I originally had a fleet of Heljan 47s, which I liked a lot. They ran very smoothly too, but ultimately the width bothered me, once I bought my first Bachmann one anyway.  

 

So I sold all my Heljan ones and replaced them with the Bachmann version. I like the Bachmann one, although I find that the all-wheel drive makes them more prone to derailments than the Heljan version, which because of its floating centre axle on each bogie will happily negotiate most track imperfections, even mine. Filing back the plastic on the bogie where the centre axle clips in to give the axle more play helps a lot I find and derailments are no longer a problem on my layout now.

 

I now have a fleet of Bachmann 47s which I'm very happy with. I will be watching Heljan's new version though when it's released. I'm not sure I will have the enthusiasm to go through with another wholesale fleet replacement though, especially as I like my Bachmann ones so much. I might make a few additions to my fleet from the new Heljan version, if it turns out as good as it should be.

[adb968008]

I have 83 class 47’s (put in perspective my first one is now 35 years old). Whilst it is an average of 2-3 per year, Ive probably owned double that number at differing periods over time (my once exclusively lima fleet was once 100).

imho Best 47...

 

1. Bachmann

2. ViTrains

3. Lima (with a Hornby Railroadchassis)

4. Hornby Railroad 

 

1. Bachmann

 

It has the best performance, several lighting options and are very good artistic renderings. It is let down by rivets around the cab and some bogie detail for the class 57 that shouldnt be there, but its a very acceptable model. Priced from £130-£160 for most new ones, £80-£120 for most second hand ones. Plenty of versions available including ETH, Steam Heat and Extended range tanks. Uses LED lighting. Driven off all 6 axles. For a new 47 this is your only choice, but it is equally a very good choice, Bachmann has kept the model up to date and produced fantastic detail levels. 2022 will bring a new £220 new 47 from Heljan, don't expect these to fall in price soon, if anything I expect sales to increase and some liveries to become rarer.

 

2. ViTrains

 

Again similar shape to the Bachmann 47, similar details, if not slightly better as it doesnt have the 57 details. The chassis is slightly more dated under the hood (not LEDs, not separate switching). The buffers could be better rendered. Otherwise theres little wrong with it. Note some complain that you have to fit your own detailing, where as Bachmann's is already fitted. Priced second hand around £80-£120 for most versions with most liveries covering mid1990’s to c2013. The high second hand price shows the high esteem the model is held in by those who collect 47’s.

 

3.Lima (with a Hornby Chassis)

 

ok this isnt “off the shelf”. But the Lima 47 has the right shape, it sits well amongst Vitrains and Bachmann 47’s. Its dated, the details such as handrails, lamp irons are moulded on. Finally the battery boxes come in one shape (47/4) so doesnt offer Steam Heat, Extended range versions. However, it is cheap.. £30 will buy you most of the 120 odd different liveries and versions available and if you dont mind spending £20 for a Hornby drive unit (and selling your old Lima one onwards for circa £15) plus about an hours work you have a very decent power unit.

 

4. Hornby Railroad 47

 

Its really on par with the (Lima 47 on a Hornby Railroad chassis) as both are the same thing. The only reason I rate it lower than the Lima 47 on a Railroad chassis is the weight.. Lima has much more weight, giving more pull power. Secondly is colourful varities.. no one will beat 120 liveries of Lima, though Hornby has kept the liveries largely upto date. It comes DCC ready, pickups on all wheels and is cheap.. £50-£70 new. Many people buy these and swap the chassis with Lima ones.

 

 

Worst 47s..

 

1. Hornby 1970’s tooling

2. Heljan 1990’s tooling

3. Lima class 47

 

1. Hornby 1970’s tooling

Recognised by its wide loop coupling. In its day was a good model. The shape is ok, the earliest versions came with lights. Most early ones had moulded lines for the green stripes, evident on the other liveries too, until it was eventually updated in the late 1980’s. It was still about in 2012 in the Northern Belle set. Uses a ring field motor and steel wheels from the 1970’s, very chunky bogies with moulded details. Great for kids, Largely indestructible..unfortunately.. which means ebay will provide years of relatively pointless bone yarding.

 

2nd Worst 47..

 

2. Heljan 1990’s tooling

Straight to the point.. its too fat, obese or politically correct.. too wide. It stands out next to not just your other 47’s but every other loco you own. Not only is it too fat, but it puts on weight... many Heljan 47’s have expanded due to mazak rot, creating an artistic collection of scrap piles for its buyers. It gets longer, it bends like a banana and it cracks chunks out of the body. On the plus side theres plenty of liveries and no shortage of bogie, drive shaft and motor spares if you feel like making a chassis for your Lina upgrades. Whilst the horror stories have largely passed, and the working survivors are frequently for sale, they tend to be lower priced in the £30-70 range for most. If you feel like a challenge however, A1 models made an etching to make 47901 and it fits this body, not Lima, Bachmann or Vitrains

i only put it second worst as if you have a good one, it beats the Hornby 47 for detailing, chassis and motor, the spares are useful.

 

3rd worst 47

 

Lima class 47

You can go wrong here, theres over 100,000 in circulation, in over 120 liveries. Every conceivable livery was done from 1961 to 1999 has been modelled, some more than a dozen times. You could model Crewe Diesel as an RES depot in full without doing a renumber. The different cab ends were there too. Largely indestructible as a model, the later 1990’s versions came with darkened wheels and improved pickups, earlier ones with darkened brass wheels. The body shape set the standard which Vitrains and Bachmann followed, and many have spent the extra to put a Lima 47 onto a Bachmann or ViTrains chassis. But if left as it, it will scream around your non-DCC ready layout that will make you smile, and sit on shed blending in to your detailed Bachmann and ViTrains 47’s just fine. All it needs is regular wheel cleaning. Once priced at £19.99 these 47’s are on ebay between £20-£40 today, with some rare ones still fetching £100, where ViTrains & Bachmann hasnt repeated them.. these holy grails are both Scottish:  Large Logo or Intercity Exec 47’s.

 

 

practising what I preach..

 

  1 Hornby (superdetailed repaint from the 1980’s)

  1 Heljan (47773, cheap broken bin find)

  4 Lima (a token few on late 90’s chassis just for fun)

  5 Hornby Railroad (2020 GBRF 3, plus 47033 and Dionysys)

25 Hornby on Lima Chassis (upgraded my fleet  in the mid2010’s) 

  7 ViTrains (47370, 47600, 47401x2, 47773,47786, 47802)

40 Bachmann 

 

What does the future of my fleet look like..

Depending on how well Heljan does, 5 strike my eye: 47452, 47492,47555,47596, 47815. I would imagine I would offload Lima: 47315,47579.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by adb968008

[Legend]

Stevey does say he is looking for a two tone green one though , which does kind of limit options . Did Vi Trains ever produce a 60s two tone green one ? 

[adb968008]

56 minutes ago, Legend said:

Stevey does say he is looking for a two tone green one though , which does kind of limit options . Did Vi Trains ever produce a 60s two tone green one ? 

No, not that I know of.

Hornby, Heljan, Bachmann, Lima.

 

Your options are limited anyway, as there really isnt that many made, considering most of them wore it, its not been a popular livery with 1960’s modellers.

 

Hornby : D1670 Mammoth

 

Bachmann HYE:

D1500, D1572 original shutters

D1746 (w/sound)

D1842 (inaccurate body) but revised shutter

D1670 Kernow Ltd Edition Mammoth revised shutter

 

Bachmann FYE:
D1677 / 1764

47256 weathered 1970’s

 

Lima

HYE D1524/D1542/

FYE 1664/1761/47369/

(Note Lima D1842 was preserved green)

 

its worth mentioning 1733 in XP64 livery... Bachmann, Heljan and Lima.
theres probably others (as others add to, I can update)

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by adb968008

[rob D2]

Simply , hold off and wait and see if new Heljan is super ..

 

At present I’d buy Bachmann - it’s an old tooling  with limited detail , runs well ( not as quiet as Hornby 31/60). It’s not worth the £150 odd quid Bachmann think - I’d pay up to about £120.

 

Old Heljan - dodgy wheels on older ones , dodgy mazak, too wide , massive current draw . Wouldn’t bother .

 

Vi - good shape , awkward detailing parts , reasonable runner . No spares or product support as discontinued .

 

Old Lima / Limby- good shape , cheap chassis , rubbish running . Don’t bother .

Original Hornby - just don’t 

 

that’s my 50p

[e30ftw]

its also worth noting Heljan are working on a all new 4mm version, if you can wait till that is released, and the reviews to come out. Will this also affeect the price of the Bachmann model once released?

 

I personaly have a Bachmann 47 and it looks like a 47 to me, but im no expert in class 47's and has alsready been pointed out it has its down sides, like a lot of other things in hobby and life, how far are you willing to go? Do you want the most accurate minature model? Do you want to customise it to represent a individual member of the class at a given date or would you be happy with a good but not precise representation of a class47. Do you want to run it DCC with sound, would you fit it your self or want a RTR choice.

 

sorry my reply isnt to helpful but the best "47" is an open question, and as you already admited your self the answer is.......it depends.

 

(just to add i was typing this but rob d2 beet me too it )

Edited December 17, 2020 by e30ftw

[55020]

As mentioned, what is best for one is not best for all.  If your main consideration is 2nd hand price, but also want something that hauls well and looks like a 47, then I would consider the Heljan model.  As previously mentioned it is slightly too wide, but it I don't think it is noticeable unless you sit it next to another manufacturers 47.  In every other respect it is a great model to have on the layout.

 

If you are not bothered about price the Bachmann offering is good, but do avoid models with oversized window rivets if accuracy is important.  Consider a ViTrains one if best in class hauling power isn't important (although I don't think there is a green version).

Perhaps have a read through this thread.   Nothing has really changed, until the new Heljan offering hits the shops next year.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by 55020

[SteveyDee68]

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far to my "string length" query; your answers have been exactly the kind of mix of personal experience blended with views on accuracy and running qualities that I was searching for.

 

To answer a couple of the points raised: I am looking for a good representation of the class that will stand alongside SR steam and electric locos by the likes of Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol and Hornby; performance wise it needs to be able to pull a nine carriage train; livery wise two-tone green pre-TOPs number and preferably small yellow end panel rather than full yellow end (fussy ain't I, considering I want a generic loco!)

 

I already have a Heljan "Hymek" for my visiting WR train; the class 47 will be for a visiting ER boat train/sleeper service (that exists only in my imagination!)

 

On balance, I shall be looking at the Bachmann model followed by ViTrains (repaint required!) and maybe Heljan* if a nice looking one turns up at a good price!

 

I don't know if I dare ask which is the better model, the Hornby or DJM class 71?!

 

Steve S

 

* As 55020 suggests, as it will be my only class 47 it may well pass muster despite needing to go on a diet!

[spamcan61]

41 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

 

I don't know if I dare ask which is the better model, the Hornby or DJM class 71?!

 

Steve S

 

 

Having looked at this myself a while ago, the DJM has finer detail in some areas, but is intolerant of less than perfect track and is geared way too low for an express locomotive. The Hornby is a better runner and can pull a more realistic load  at realistic speed for an express. Plus the front end shape is closer to prototype. All IMHO of course.

Edited December 17, 2020 by spamcan61

[dagrizz]

I bought three new two-tone green Heljan 47's on release, D1100, D1734 and D1942. D1734 was one of the ones to suffer mazak rot and I received a free replacement chassis from Howes. D1100 and D1942 were fine, I sold D1942 a few months ago but the chassis was still OK. I still have D1100 and it is fine, as is the replacement chassis for D1734.

 

Graham    

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I have 83 class 47’s 

 

 

 

That's 82 too many...............

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

 

I don't know if I dare ask which is the better model, the Hornby or DJM class 71?!

 

Steve S

 

 

Hornby all day long.

 

Look around now or in the sales coming up as there are some good deals on them at the moment and I reckon there will be further discounts post Xmas.

 

There was a bit of support for the DJM version, but most of that seemed to come from the DJ fanboys and Hornby bashers. They all went quiet for some reason....

 

 

Jason

[NickL2008]

Id definatley say vitrains for the Better clas 47 model. Sadly the closest they produced to a two tone green version was 47519 in Two tone green, but that was a 1980s/1990s(?) version of it and it wont have the alphanumeric center headcode if youre modelling it in the 1960s. the extra detail parts are ok, but only certain ones are useful for the class 47 as for some reason Vitrains included their class 37 parts. The detail is good, nice and crisp in some areas, and it doesnt have the overscale headlights the Bachmann one has, although it loses out on points compared to the Bachmann model because of the weak chassis design and the not good lighting , especially the taillights which you can barely see. Otherwise likewise with all of the other models, detailing by adding parts from Shawplan will improve its appearance.

 

NL

[Halvarras]

Personally I think the Heljan model's excess girth problem has been overplayed, there are some well-known layouts out there whose owners don't have a problem with it. It didn't help that the early releases had bogie sideframes which were rather 'slim-fitting' which only served to exaggerate the excess width of the body. 

I have half a dozen of these, including D1733 and D1734, and the only one which suffered Mazak Rot was the XP64 loco, in 2008 IIRC - luckily I was able to save the body despite having to cut the block out with a hacksaw and Howes provided a replacement chassis (my current proposal is to build the spare drivetrain into a Hornby underframe then shove this under a Lima 47484 in GWR150 livery - Frankenstein would be proud!)

Two-tone green livery applications on Bachmann and Heljan models have seen improvements to the width and positioning of the Sherwood Green bands and masking of yellow warning panels with each release, the latter especially so in Bachmann's case - compare D1500 to the latest version D1842. Kernow's D1670 is good but the newer D1842's livery must be the sharpest rendition yet.

[SteveyDee68]

19 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Having looked at this myself a while ago, the DJM has finer detail in some areas, but is intolerant of less than perfect track and is geared way too low for an express locomotive. The Hornby is a better runner and can pull a more realistic load  at realistic speed for an express. Plus the front end shape is closer to prototype. All IMHO of course.

Thanks for your opinion on this - I already have one class 71 (purchased from The Locoshed in Whitefield - Jim, the owner, commented upon what a lovely runner it was when we tested it, and remarked it was a shame it wasn’t that popular a model - well, in the NW at least!!) 

 

Prices on eBay seem to vary wildly, but as I can pick up a brand new one for less than £100 it seems the bargains are already there! Plus a pre-TOPS early blue version for just over £100! There are a couple of DJM versions on priced between £100-£130 ... I just wondered if these were like Betamax video players (better quality but outsold by a cheaper rival!)

 

 

[SteveyDee68]

On 17/12/2020 at 15:33, Steamport Southport said:

 

Hornby all day long.

 

Look around now or in the sales coming up as there are some good deals on them at the moment and I reckon there will be further discounts post Xmas.

 

Jason

Hi Jason

 

As I just mentioned, I think there are already some bargains to be had!

 

Mind you, if I pay £90 and then after Xmas they are on offer at £65 I will be a little bit miffed!! 

Edited December 8, 2023 by SteveyDee68

[adb968008]

35 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Hi Jason

 

As I just mentioned, I think there are already some bargains to be had!

 

Mind you, if I pay £90 and then after Xmas they are on offer at £65 I will be a little bit miffed!! 

I think the days of mega discounted 71’s are passed.

 

Hornby flooded the market with several class 71’s in response to DJM.. so many you could pick them up between £50-65 within weeks of release. Whilst I suspect theres still no shortage of them, those prices havent been seen for 2+ years now and am not sure they will return. I’d be amazed if Hornby or anyone else, produced a new batch of 71’s this side of 2025.

However at £80-100 for a new one your good, but even s/h £60-80 isnt bad. Never read any complaints of the Hornby class 71.. it does the job, but dont think they will ever be rare or over supplied again.

 

one or two may think the DJ version might hold a collectors appeal, but history doesnt look kindly on inferior models that have better toolings in the market, if you wanted a DJ 71 however, Hattons still have them new on discount.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/3094212/1000588/1000672/0/dj_models_dave_jones_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_electric_locos/prodlist.aspx

Edited December 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Hroth]

21 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

I don't know if I dare ask which is the better model, the Hornby or DJM class 71?!

 

I got a factory-weathered green DJM when they were being flogged off cheaply (can't remember price/supplier now). Its a nice looking model, even if the heaviness of the weathering makes it looked uncared for...   I used it for a while, but it was a dreadful sluggard so it went back into its box.  I've no experience of the Hornby model, if I feel a need to bring back the 71, I'll make do with the one I've got!  Who needs more than one???

 

 

[SteveyDee68]

13 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I got a factory-weathered green DJM when they were being flogged off cheaply (can't remember price/supplier now). Its a nice looking model, even if the heaviness of the weathering makes it looked uncared for...   I used it for a while, but it was a dreadful sluggard so it went back into its box.  I've no experience of the Hornby model, if I feel a need to bring back the 71, I'll make do with the one I've got!  Who needs more than one???

 

 

 

The comments earlier about the low gearing and your own comment above have decided me - no DJM class 71s for me (even a fully decorated Golden Arrow version exclusively from Hattons at £96!)

 

As to who needs more than one? Possibly nobody.

 

Who wants more than one? ME!! 

 

I have E5001 in green with a small yellow warning panel. I'd like an all green model (E5018 or E5022) plus an early blue preTOPS numbering version (E5005), just to ring the changes! 

 

HOURS OF ELECTRIC FUN!

Edited December 18, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Loco numbers!

[PMP]

Re the 47’s I’d look at the current Bachmann as first stop. 

This has had new glazing added from Shawplan, and window rivets removed, and PHD steps. Bogies have had the 57 specific details removed too. There was an early batch that used to run a little lopsided, but believe that’s now resolved.

The Heljan version for me works well too, the extra width doesn’t really notice until you have it next to a narrower bodied version.

Again this has had a makeover with Shawplan products roof grills and glazing and PHD etched steps.

Finally ViTrains are very good too but only did later variations so a lot of work to backdate them.

Edited December 18, 2020 by PMP