Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Morning, I have fitted a Zimo MX648 sound decoder to one of my locos. It all works just fine, the drive and the sound, but I cannot change the address. My system is a PIKO Smartcontroller Light. I placed the loco on the program track and went through the procedure to change the address but when placed back on the layout, and the new address entered, there is no response. If I select loco 3 again, it works. I have tried it three times now and it still won't accept a new address. I know that there is nothing wrong with the program track, or what I am doing as I placed a different loco on the program track and changed its address as a test. The test loco accepted the new address. If I ask the controller to read the address of the loco that I am trying to change, it shows 0 but it runs on 3. Any ideas as to what is wrong and how I can get it to accept a new address? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Perhaps it's been locked. Unlocking' a ZIMO decoder using CV144 = 0 must be done with POM. It cannot be performed using Service Mode on a programming track. Norman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Also check that the decoder doesn’t have a long address set. If it does you will need to disable the bit in CV29 to be able to set the short address in CV1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 3 hours ago, norman said: Perhaps it's been locked. Unlocking' a ZIMO decoder using CV144 = 0 must be done with POM. It cannot be performed using Service Mode on a programming track. Norman Thanks. What is a POM? 2 hours ago, WIMorrison said: Also check that the decoder doesn’t have a long address set. If it does you will need to disable the bit in CV29 to be able to set the short address in CV1 How do I check if it has a long address? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) Firstly check the value of CV29 and see if it has the Long address enabled in bit 5 of CV29 - easiest way to do this is enter the CV29 value in\DCC CV29 Calculator (2mm.org.uk) and see what options are set. If it has been set then you either need to remove it or identify the long address that is stored in CV17 and 18. The best option is generally to either remove the long address by removing it from CV29 or enter a new long address in CV17 and 18 using the calculator Calculation of CV settings for 4-digit (long) address (ruppweb.org) Edited December 19, 2020 by WIMorrison URL not displaying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BokStein Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 No need for a second web site, scroll down \DCC CV29 Calculator (2mm.org.uk) and you'll find the CV17 & 18 calculator. POM = Program on Main [track] as opposed to POP (Program on Program [track]) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I don't see this stuff on long/short addresses helps. If Dave (Ruston) is getting a value of 0 when reading CV1, something is wrong. I'm assuming the "good" loco can be read as well as written to ? That would confirm the system is behaving, and there isn't a user-mistake. In the faulty loco try to read CV8. Does it report Zimo's value of 145 ? If not, then its either a wiring fault in the loco, or a faulty decoder. - Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) Dave, Try temporarily disconnecting the Stay Alive capacitor during programming/re-addressing. Sometimes these can disrupt the process. Service mode programming (on Programming Track) normally terminates with a power re-cycle (off then on) which helps to make any CV changes 'stick', but that brief power down will not happen if a Stay Alive pack is connected as it's purpose is to maintain power to keep the decoder 'alive'. A supercap will keep a decoder alive for up to a minute if the power drain is small. Your sound project does not have the programming lock enabled or long address set unless you have successfully loaded a 'long address' yourself. Just for the sake of information which may help us, to what address (number) have you been trying change the default '3'. Best regards, Paul Edited December 19, 2020 by pauliebanger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Ruston said: Thanks. What is a POM? It's a British expat in Australia. One of the barmy army. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Alternatively POM is 'Programming on the Main', take your pick. Best regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 1 hour ago, pauliebanger said: Dave, Try temporarily disconnecting the Stay Alive capacitor during programming/re-addressing. Sometimes these can disrupt the process. Service mode programming (on Programming Track) normally terminates with a power re-cycle (off then on) which helps to make any CV changes 'stick', but that brief power down will not happen if a Stay Alive pack is connected as it's purpose is to maintain power to keep the decoder 'alive'. A supercap will keep a decoder alive for up to a minute if the power drain is small. Your sound project does not have the programming lock enabled or long address set unless you have successfully loaded a 'long address' yourself. Just for the sake of information which may help us, to what address (number) have you been trying change the default '3'. Best regards, Paul Thanks, Paul, The number that I am trying to change it to is 10. I did try 11 as I already had a 10 but I changed that loco to 11 as the test. I haven't loaded a long address myself as I wouldn't have a clue how to do that (as you know, I'm a dummy when it comes to this stuff and long addresses and bits of CVs are well above my understanding). I have changed the addresses on other locos that are fitted with stay alives, with no problem so I wonder why this one won't do it? I'd rather not disconnect the stay alive but if there's no alternative then I'll have to try that. By the way, I have already sent you an email about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Try writing the address in REG programming mode if your controller supports this. Short address is register 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ruston said: Thanks, Paul, The number that I am trying to change it to is 10. I did try 11 as I already had a 10 but I changed that loco to 11 as the test. I haven't loaded a long address myself as I wouldn't have a clue how to do that (as you know, I'm a dummy when it comes to this stuff and long addresses and bits of CVs are well above my understanding). I have changed the addresses on other locos that are fitted with stay alives, with no problem so I wonder why this one won't do it? I'd rather not disconnect the stay alive but if there's no alternative then I'll have to try that. By the way, I have already sent you an email about this. Dave, Yes you have, just found them in my Spam folder. OK, address 10 has no adverse connotation that I know of, save that for no explicable reason, some decoders (usually older, cheaper models) refuse to accept particular, apparently random, adresses. Not my experience, but this has been reported rom time to time on RMweb and elsewhere. Have you tried programming a different address than 10?* Most of my ZIMOs will programme OK with Stay Alives connected, but occassionally, and usually it will be one of the miniature families like the MX648, a decoder will not do so without disconnecting the SA as I suggested. You should only need to disconnect one of the leads from the SA pack to break the circuit. It's possible that there's problem with the decoder but that's a bit unlikely. Nigel also suggested earlier that there could be a problem with the signal path between the track and the decoder. No offence intended, but this is a kit built model and for programming, the standard of contact integrity needs to be higher than that required for DC running. It's possible that a combination of a compromised signal/electrical pathway and a connected Stay Alive is sufficient to cause these problems. You've stated that the motor control and sound work OK, and I had no difficulty loading the sound project, so it's unlikely that there's a fault with the decoder. Of course, I did this with the decoder directly connected to my MXULFA (sound loading module) so the signal path was as short and robust as it gets and there was no SA connected. Until both of these potential factors have been eliminated, it would be rash to jump to other conclusions. You could try putting some weight on the model or press it down onto the programming track with your hand whilst attempting to programme a new address. This might overcome any poor contact between wheel and track. I suggest you try these steps in this order. 1. Try programming a different address (between 4 and 99)*. 2. Closely inspect for any obvious barriers to good connection between track and decoder, including the quality of your soldering/dry joints etc. 3. Ensure pickups/ wheelbacks/plungers are scrupulously clean with no surface contaminates - oil, weathering powdersor paints and so on 4. Ensure all 4 wheels are in good contact with the track, add weight if necessary, during programming. 5. Temporarilly disconnect one of the Stay Alive connections for programming. 6. Operate this model on address 3. Not ideal, but since youcan change all other to different addresses, it is workable. (Obviously, option 6 is tongue in cheek). *I just re-read your post and see that you have already attempted to programme alternative addresses, sorry. Best regards, Paul Edited December 19, 2020 by pauliebanger Correction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 It gets stranger! I have cleaned the programming track and have pushed down on the model and read the address. Instead of coming up with 0 it is now reading 54! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 I have no attempted to change the address again, whilst pressing down on the model and it showed "OK" but when place back on the track it still runs on address 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 Tried again with address 13. Placed back on the track it went crazy, trying to run at full speed even though the controller hadn't been touched and it wasn't running when removed from the layout and placed on the program track. Back on the program track, reads 0 but runs on layout on 3. I'll have to cut a wire to the stay alive and try that. What a pain in the backside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 That 'run away' tendancy coupled with what you said earlier confirms that this is most likely a poor signal path. (though there are other reasons why a run away can occur) Explanation: The decoder detects power but there's no clean DCC signal so defaults to DC analogue mode. On DCC, all connected track is fully powered all the time. Decoder 'sees' a full power request and sends max voltage to the motor. Best regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 I have disconnected one wire from the stay alive and have tried twice to change the address. I pressed down on the loco, as suggested and on the other just left it. Again, it comes up as 54 when read on the program track but runs on 3. When it is on the program track it is doing the little jig that they all do, so something is getting to the decoder but nothing so far has made any difference at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Have you tried resetting the decoder yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: Have you tried resetting the decoder yet? No. What do you mean by resetting it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Write 8 to CV8, this will reset the decoder to default which will have CV1 as 3. You can then start changing the settings to what you want them to be e.g address 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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