Midnight-Freight Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Yesterday I took delivery of a Hattons 66 along with one of their DCR-12 Direct V2 decoders which I've fitted myself. I'm using a z21 start with wired Multimaus handset. When I tried to change cv1 to set the address the screen locked for a few seconds before displaying Error 2. I press ok and it then goes to the CV input screen but when I change it and press ok it displays error again and won't accept. Now I've just swapped the decoder from another loco and the Hattons decoder worked fine in the other loco but the problem remained in the Hattons one so it appears to be the loco at fault. When there is power to the track I can hear the decoder buzz slightly and if I turn the lights on the front ones illuminate but not the rears. This is all with the body still removed so no top lights. I'm assuming the body doesn't need to be refitted first and I think the lighting switches are set correctly, not that I would expect that to affect anything. Does anyone have any other suggestions before I contact Hattons? I'm hoping I don't have to return it as cosmetically it's a goodun. Just to add the only DC controller I have is an old Hornby one which I tried with the blanking plug in and no response from the loco. When I tested the voltage at the track it was only 8v on max though so I don't know if that tells me anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 You should always test a loco on DC first and as it fails to work on that then yes it does need returning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 If the loco is buzzing slightly on DCC that suggests to me that it is still configured to run on DC - have you removed the DC blanking plug? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, WIMorrison said: If the loco is buzzing slightly on DCC that suggests to me that it is still configured to run on DC - have you removed the DC blanking plug? Yes, I just mean a very faint noise, I assumed it was normal as most of my dcc locos do it. With the decoder in all the lights work on functions 0-4, it just won't read any cv's and the motor won't respond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Suspect the general buzzing is down to the transformer supplied with Multimaus giving out a very high voltage which can pose a problem with some decoders as they as enter a protected mode to preclude damage. The solutions are either 1. to string together two rows of diodes (on row all facing one way and the other row all the the other) in one side of the track supply (a 3 Amp rated diode will typically drop up to 1.2v), or 2. Use an alternative supply like an spare laptop supply Suggest you check the rail voltage - you can do this with any multimeter by adding 2 v to the reading when connected to a decoders blue wire and a function wire whose output is on. Ideally it should be around 14-16v but with the Multimaus transfomer can be around 10v higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Thanks for the replies so far. I've been doing some tests with my multimeter and have confirmed that there is continuity between the rails and the 4 points on the circuit board that I assume are the wheel pick up points (2 each side). With the blanking plate in place there is then also continuity at the two points on the board marked motor + and - (from their corresponding rail) which is broken when the blanking plug is removed so that suggests to me the decoder socket is ok and there should be power feeding the motor on DC. I wonder if there is no power going to the motor, which I'll try to confirm. My next question is what information does a dcc controller require from a decoder for it to be able to read cv's and function? If there was no feedback from the motor would that be enough to confuse it and think nothing was on the track? The error 2 code when I try to read cv's is what happens if I try to do it with nothing on the track so I guess my dcc controller isn't recognising there is anything there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said: Suspect the general buzzing is down to the transformer supplied with Multimaus giving out a very high voltage which can pose a problem with some decoders as they as enter a protected mode to preclude damage. The solutions are either 1. to string together two rows of diodes (on row all facing one way and the other row all the the other) in one side of the track supply (a 3 Amp rated diode will typically drop up to 1.2v), or 2. Use an alternative supply like an spare laptop supply Suggest you check the rail voltage - you can do this with any multimeter by adding 2 v to the reading when connected to a decoders blue wire and a function wire whose output is on. Ideally it should be around 14-16v but with the Multimaus transfomer can be around 10v higher. What on earth are you taking about? A Multimaus is a handset that is connected to the z21 - it doesn't output any voltage at all and the z21 works perfectly with all decoders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted December 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, Midnight-Freight said: Thanks for the replies so far. I've been doing some tests with my multimeter and have confirmed that there is continuity between the rails and the 4 points on the circuit board that I assume are the wheel pick up points (2 each side). With the blanking plate in place there is then also continuity at the two points on the board marked motor + and - (from their corresponding rail) which is broken when the blanking plug is removed so that suggests to me the decoder socket is ok and there should be power feeding the motor on DC. I wonder if there is no power going to the motor, which I'll try to confirm. My next question is what information does a dcc controller require from a decoder for it to be able to read cv's and function? If there was no feedback from the motor would that be enough to confuse it and think nothing was on the track? The error 2 code when I try to read cv's is what happens if I try to do it with nothing on the track so I guess my dcc controller isn't recognising there is anything there. As you suspect there needs to be a load in circuit with the decoder for it to get an acknowledgement that the command has been received. Generally the motor ‘chatters’ with each command and the loco can often move along the track in very small steps. With no motor in circuit it assumes nothing there. So a pcb to motor connection problem it would appear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 The Multimaus can be a stand alone system, mine certainly do not use a z21. Either way decoders should not buzz as a general rule so something would seem to wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 A Multimaus is a handset - always. You may have it plugged into something else from Roco such ad an amplifier or a booster, but the Multimaus is always just a handset whether it is wired or wireless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Izzy said: As you suspect there needs to be a load in circuit with the decoder for it to get an acknowledgement that the command has been received. Generally the motor ‘chatters’ with each command and the loco can often move along the track in very small steps. With no motor in circuit it assumes nothing there. So a pcb to motor connection problem it would appear. Yes makes sense. Obviously I can't change a cv on a decoder in that loco to see if the motor reacts to it. I'll try and check the wiring to the motor and see if I can find an issue there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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