Who produces the best German HO locomotives

[JohnnyMarr]

Hi, I’m well familiar with OO gauge, who makes the best locos and stock (in my opinion anyway) and what decent stuff can be bought for a bargain from eBay etc but I am struggling to figure out the same for HO gauge, more specifically stock from the Deutsche Reichsbahn. I’ve heard there’s 3 rail AC locos but I’m not interested in that stuff, just normal, preferably DCC compatible locos. Marklin appears to be extremely expensive and the likes of liliput, roco and fleischman seem good quality but without seeing in person it’s hard to tell. Has anyone go an opinion on this?

[MichaelE]

Yes. 

 

Roco, TRIX, Bemo, and PIKO, all make quality locomotives. Most in the Expert or Pro lines are extremely well detailed and made in either Germany or Austria.

 

Some entry level equipment is produced in the Far East and I don't buy that level of equipment.

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

Have a look here, it’s just my opinion;

Hope it’s useful to you.

Cheers,

John.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Most of the well-known makes are good quality—though some can be very expensive. It is not just entry-level models that are being made in the Far East — my "made in VN" Roco ÖBB 2095 isn't entry level, and I believe all modern PIKO models are made in China.

 

As far as the Deutsche Reichsbahn is concerned, do you mean "era II" (I.e. between the wars) — this is usually referred to as DRG in adverts and the like — or post-war East Germany (usually referred to as DR).

 

I'd add Brawa to the names listed above — very high quality, also often very expensive (and made in China). Also Lilliput, which of course is Bachmann's European brand. Bemo is mostly narrow gauge.

Edited December 21, 2020 by D9020 Nimbus

[Ron Ron Ron]

Much of, if not most of Roco’s output is made in Romania (their own factory).

 

 

[RexAshton]

Roco

[Matti8]

Trix is Märklin's 2 rail DC range which offers the same locomotives. Their quality has really stepped up recently and I am very happy with what I have from them. Lilliput of course is excellent being a branch of Bachmann. Fleischmann is also great - all theirs are 2 rail. Roco, Brawa, Piko, and others are good and people speak highly of them but I usually only get rolling stock from them.

 

Any specific loco class you are looking for?

 

Matti

Edited December 21, 2020 by Matti8

[Adrian Stevenson]

I used to have some Fleischmann locos and stock from 30 years ago and only sold them two years ago. The quality was excellent.

 

Cheers, Ade.

[michl080]

All the mentioned brands a making good quality, but if you ask for the best quality, Brawa, ESU and Lenz should be mentioned as well. Sadly, Lenz is focussing on 0 gauge now, but their Köf II was a milestone. This little loco reaches high prices even in used condition.

 

Michael

[KeithMacdonald]

Some say there is a special brand of HO produced in Lapland. It's only available at Christmas, and delivered by a very Special Courier.

 

 

 

It's HO HO HO

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

ESU, Sudexpress, Brawa, Piko, Rocky-Rail, Gützold, Trix, Liliput, Roco.....

 

.

[David C]

Fleischmann and Roco brands belong to the same company. The former brand now only produces N gauge, but their H0 products can be obtained on eBay or secondhand. I've got two of their models, a class 98 0-8-0T and a class 70 2-4-0T, and both run very well and reliably. The only Roco I have is a class 64 2-6-2T: its very nicely detailed and runs smoothly, but is a little "sticky". It may improve over time, but my main problem with it is that it is very complicated to dismantle. In order to oil and clean the gears, the body obviously needs to be removed. The cab and tanks are separate, but there are about a dozen or pipes running between the cab and the domes, all of which are separate. Disconnecting and reconnecting them is a nightmare and needs great care. I wasn't able to connect the wiring for all the LED lights at the rear, so mine runs with only two. I was thinking about buying Roco's new (ish) class 86 (the 2-8-2T version of the 64), but if its constructed like the 64, I'm wont waste my dosh! 

 

However, I prefer Roco coaches and wagons to Fleischmann's. 

 

I also have a Brawa loco, a Bavarian type 0-8-2T. This company's products have the reputation for producing extremely well detailed and high quality stuff and my model is certainly very well detailed and a sweet runner. It was expensive, but Brawa stuff usually is - you pay for what you get, though. I only have two of their wagons, but they are also very high quality.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

David C

[adb968008]

On 23/12/2020 at 00:00, Ron Ron Ron said:

ESU, Sudexpress, Brawa, Piko, Rocky-Rail, Gützold, Trix, Liliput, Roco.....

 

.

I agree, and in the exact order presented !

 

Roco is good, it was the standard, however its standards havent moved on. That said Roco standard is still higher than most UK rtr standards... so where ever you go in HO, you will not be dissappointed.. the bar may be lower than it was, but thats because the earth has moved closer to the bar.

 

Europe, Once preserved of the DACH 4 manufacturers, there are now more European manufacturers than there has ever been, virtually every country now has its own choice of Manufacturers... Portugal.. go SudExpress, Poland  go Robo, Hungary Fuggerth, Italy.. Rivarossi... Swedish trams.. go SwedTram.. its all out there.

 

If your new today, you can pick a country and start there.

I have a mixed collection of OO/HO and intermix them, Ive found in recent years Piko, Sudexpress, Artitec, Brawa, ESU all produce excellant models, even Hornbys own Jouef range has come on considerably, Ive just bought a pair of BR642 DMUs last week (and think Hornby are missing a trick in some markets), but at least they arent afraid of spending money on modern image, even if its not in the UK market.

 

it doesnt have to be that expensive either, Piko Expert is cheaper than UK rtr, and is both mechanically and comestically fantastic.

Edited December 27, 2020 by adb968008

[JohnnyMarr]

All very helpful, thanks for the info!

[33052]

On 23/12/2020 at 00:00, Ron Ron Ron said:

ESU, Sudexpress, Brawa, Piko, Rocky-Rail, Gützold, Trix, Liliput, Roco.....

 

.

To add to the Smorgasbord i can think of Acme,Ade,Jaegerndorfer,RailAd,LS Models to name a few.

[33052]

17 minutes ago, JohnnyMarr said:

All very helpful, thanks for the info!

If you have a Specific Era or Locomotive in mind you can Compare and choose whats available,for instance take the Modern Siemens Vectron Loco,off the top of my head you can get it from Piko,Roco,Marklin/Trix,LS Models and Jaegerndorfer,all excellent quality but enough variation to be able to choose between them.

Edited December 27, 2020 by 33052

[Mike at C&M]

Another aspect to this is that whilst many perceive Brexit to be a barrier to trade with the EU, there are shops within the UK that stock many of the brands listed thus far. The adverts in the "Continental Modeller" are a good guide as to who these are.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Mike at C&M said:

Another aspect to this is that whilst many perceive Brexit to be a barrier to trade with the EU, there are shops within the UK that stock many of the brands listed thus far. The adverts in the "Continental Modeller" are a good guide as to who these are.

 

It will be interesting to find out what the situation will be with regards to UK customers ordering goods from EU countries.

 

Up until 31st Dec 2000, when ordering from anywhere in the EU, you paid the local VAT on your purchase at the point of sale, just like ordering from Sheffield or Liverpool.

e.g. ordering from a German supplier, you paid the local German VAT, as if you were living in Germany.

If you ordered from Italy, you paid the Italian rate of VAT, etc.

In all cases there is no tax to be paid in the UK.

 

From 1st January, had the UK not agreed a trade deal with the EU, orders made by UK customers, purchasing from an EU based supplier, would have been priced VAT free (zero VAT) and UK VAT and any applicable import duties would have been applied by the UK authorities, just as ordering from say, the USA.

 

However, with the trade deal in place, which removes the requirement for any trade tariffs (import duties), what will be the VAT situation?

Will local EU VAT rates still be applied at the point of sale, or will goods be supplied minus VAT, with local UK VAT being levied on import?

 

.

[Mike at C&M]

19 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

It will be interesting to find out what the situation will be with regards to UK customers ordering goods from EU countries.

 

Up until 31st Dec 2000, when ordering from anywhere in the EU, you paid the local VAT on your purchase at the point of sale, just like ordering from Sheffield or Liverpool.

e.g. ordering from a German supplier, you paid the local German VAT, as if you were living in Germany.

If you ordered from Italy, you paid the Italian rate of VAT, etc.

In all cases there is no tax to be paid in the UK.

 

From 1st January, had the UK not agreed a trade deal with the EU, orders made by UK customers, purchasing from an EU based supplier, would have been priced VAT free (zero VAT) and UK VAT and any applicable import duties would have been applied by the UK authorities, just as ordering from say, the USA.

 

However, with the trade deal in place, which removes the requirement for any trade tariffs (import duties), what will be the VAT situation?

Will local EU VAT rates still be applied at the point of sale, or will goods be supplied minus VAT, with local UK VAT being levied on import?

 

.

As I understand it, if you are a personal customer, the supplier in the (remaining) EU will not charge you VAT on the price, so it will appear that you are suddenly getting a bargain.

 

However, you will pay UK VAT, and a customs charge before/or as the parcel is delivered in the UK. This will more than cancel out the perceived saving of not paying EU VAT.

 

It is therefore worth looking at buying from British suppliers.

 

For example, I buy in direct from ACME (Italy) and LS Models (Belgium), and we buy a case full of models at a time. Therefore our UK customs charge is very much diluted over lots of models, rather than being applied to each single model. This (hopefully) will allow our prices to be more competitive to sourcing your models direct from the EU.

 

(Please feel free to correct this if I have mis-understood how this will work)

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks Mike.

I have read the trade agreement document and find it difficult to interpret how it would apply to retail sales across the divide.

With regard to VAT there is some mention of not charging more than would be charged in the state of supply, so if I ordered a model from country X  within the EU , who’s VAT rate is 19%, then that suggests the U.K. authorities couldn’t charge me more than that rate of VAT.

I may have interpreted that wrongly, but regardless, I can’t see how that could be implemented for various different rates of VAT depending on where you buy from.

 I’m sure there’ll be some initial confusion and misapplication of the rules, even by government departments.

[adb968008]

On 27/12/2020 at 14:18, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

It will be interesting to find out what the situation will be with regards to UK customers ordering goods from EU countries.

 

Up until 31st Dec 2000, when ordering from anywhere in the EU, you paid the local VAT on your purchase at the point of sale, just like ordering from Sheffield or Liverpool.

e.g. ordering from a German supplier, you paid the local German VAT, as if you were living in Germany.

If you ordered from Italy, you paid the Italian rate of VAT, etc.

In all cases there is no tax to be paid in the UK.

 

From 1st January, had the UK not agreed a trade deal with the EU, orders made by UK customers, purchasing from an EU based supplier, would have been priced VAT free (zero VAT) and UK VAT and any applicable import duties would have been applied by the UK authorities, just as ordering from say, the USA.

 

However, with the trade deal in place, which removes the requirement for any trade tariffs (import duties), what will be the VAT situation?

Will local EU VAT rates still be applied at the point of sale, or will goods be supplied minus VAT, with local UK VAT being levied on import?

 

.

 

i will let you know.

ive ordered some coaches from Germany on ebay on Dec 24th.

Seller just messaged today to say they were posted today.

lets find out if DHL taxes them like US packages....