GWR B Set coaches - livery dates

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The first pic looks like there is an LMS liveried coach at  the back rather than BR livery...

 

I think that's just the effect of the lining. But BR maroon was intended to be the same colour as LMS / Midland crimson lake; if it looks duller that's down to the finish - but one can't really tell since one doesn't have colour photos of the LMS livery taken under the same conditions (lighting, film stock).

[rodent279]

Has anyone noticed the cream window frame in one of the doors of the crimson coach behind the railcar in the second photo? Prototype for everything!

[rodent279]

Some good Information here, though I can't vouch for how accurate it is.

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

[Marshall5]

8 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

   The first pic looks like there is an LMS liveried coach at  the back rather than BR livery..

 

Unless your comment is 'tongue in cheek' I can see no evidence that the last carriage is in anything other than post 1956 livery as LMS liveried carriages had a double yellow/cream line below the cantrail.  Apart from that isn't it a GWR designed vehicle.......

Ray.

[Tim V]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Some good Information here, though I can't vouch for how accurate it is.

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

I consider it to be reasonably accurate, though I wrote it several years ago! You can always update the information.

[Scottish Modeller]

2 hours ago, Tim V said:

I consider it to be reasonably accurate, though I wrote it several years ago! You can always update the information.

Hi Tim,,

 

Yes - have found your pagees very interesting and useful.

 

I've also found Maurice's article on detailing the Dapol N gauge ones.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[Tim V]

The Dapol coaches have the same faults as the 4mm versions - extra windows, incorrect battery boxes, end details, but can be 'improved'.

[The Johnster]

23 hours ago, Tim V said:

You're getting confused there, the Bset produced by Airfix/Dapol etc was the E140. By changing the bogies to 9' it could be an E145.

 

E116 - K's

E129, E147 - Comet.

Sorry, yes, you are right, and I've made this mistake before; stuck in my head for some reason and I can't shift it and replace it in the cerebral memory banks with the correct information...

[The Johnster]

15 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Carmine faded to a weird variety of hues, rather like red Japanese cars did in the 1990s

It sure did, and this may account for the odd purple colour of Airfix B sets and auto trailers, though I think that was an attempt to model unlined maroon 1956-9 livery.  Most RTR prior to this was a bit flaky in terms of colour rendition, to be fair to Airfix, though Lima and Mainline were upping the game to something a bit more akin to current standards.  Some early Triang and tinplate Hornby Dublo was not too bad at all livery wise, but the Triang, later Triang Hornby and Hornby, 'scale length' mk1s were some very odd colours and Hornby Dublo's 'super detail' mk1s, with printed tinplate sides, were a bit to red to my view, though the malachite and (WR versions) choc/cream looked spot on to me.  Can't recall much RTR in plain crimson livery; my memory is of Triang suburbans in plain maroon or malachite, and HD in lined maroon or malachite to match the emu, a much brighter green than the Triang version, but the Triang MetroCam unit looked pretty accurate for colour.

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Has anyone noticed the cream window frame in one of the doors of the crimson coach behind the railcar in the second photo? Prototype for everything!

Looks white in this picture but so does the cream on the railcar.  This was not uncommon and the result of local carriage depot replacement of broken droplights with GW liveried spares from stores or withdrawn stock.  The glass in these droplights was vulnerable to the spring inside the door jamming, or their being pulled up over-enthusiastically, or to the door being slammed hard if the light was a bit loose.  And even in those days there was some vandalism, stone throwing kids mostly...

[rodent279]

7 hours ago, Tim V said:

I consider it to be reasonably accurate, though I wrote it several years ago! You can always update the information.

I wasn't questioning it-but if there are any inaccuracies, I certainly wouldn't be able to spot them!

[melmerby]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Looks white in this picture but so does the cream on the railcar. 

Look at the signal post behind the DRC

Definitely not the same and that is white.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 22/12/2020 at 07:35, rodent279 said:

Has anyone noticed the cream window frame in one of the doors of the crimson coach behind the railcar in the second photo? Prototype for everything!

It's a Tyseley set. What do you expect? They were masters of pick'n'mix even before the DMU twilight years.

[ELTEL]

Good afternoon all
 

I’m considering adding. B coaching set to my 4mm layout Camel Quay to be used on the Camel Quay  to Wadebridge / Bodmin General service, the motive power being a Class 45xx small prairie or occasional Pannier.

 

The era being late 1950s/ early 1960s 

 

Does any one produce a suitable model ?
 

Camel Quay is roughly based on Padstow and was originally built by Ray & Polly Wilton (full build here on RMWEB 

 

Terry 

[The Johnster]

Which sort of B set?  K’s produced a rather basic plastic kit for the E116 (flat ends, fishbelly bogies), the old Airfix/Hornby is for E129 (bow end, 7’ Collett bogies, recessed guard’s doors, and Comet do kit for the E129 and also the E147 (flat ends, pressed steel bogies).  E140 is a scratch build job TTBOMK. 
 

Unless I’ve confused my E129s and E249s again…

Edited July 16, 2021 by The Johnster

[Scottish Modeller]

36 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Which sort of B set?  K’s produced a rather basic plastic kit for the E116 (flat ends, fishbelly bogies), the old Airfix/Hornby is for E129 (bow end, 7’ Collett bogies, recessed guard’s doors, and Comet do kit for the E129 and also the E147 (flat ends, pressed steel bogies).  E140 is a scratch build job TTBOMK. 
 

Unless I’ve confused my E129s and E249s again…

Hi there,

 

My initial posting says N Gauge.....

 

Having passed on the livery information the guy has reacted by saying he will buy a pair of each livery - if he can find them.

 

Thanks

Phil H

 

In the meantime? I'm busy building freght stock for him.

[ELTEL]

I am really looking for a ready to run 4mm model that would have been the type that ran from Padstow to Bodmin in the 1950/1960s 

 

Many thanks 

 

Terry 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by ELTEL

[Compound2632]

18 hours ago, ELTEL said:

I am really looking for a ready to run 4mm model that would have been the type that ran from Padstow to Bodmin in the 1950/1960s 

 

As @The Johnster says, your only option for a RTR 00 B set is the Hornby (originally Airfix) set, which you would have to hunt for second hand - but ought to be readily available at moderate price once exhibitions are up and running.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Compound2632

[ELTEL]

I was perhaps hoping that a more accurate RTR might have been available, or new model was on the horizon.

 

Wishful thinking.

 

Terry 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

I was perhaps hoping that a [...] new model was on the horizon.

 

You could not have escaped noticing the froth if that was the case!

[The Johnster]

I reckon if there ever is another RTR B set it will be a retooled and upgraded E129, as these were I believe the most numerous and widespread type.  They are unsuitable for my particular location, though, and I have built a Comet E147 set.  These look scary, being etched brass, but are in fact quite easy; if I can make a reasonable model out of the kit, pretty much anyone should be able to.  They are quite time-consuming, though.

[chris45lsw]

The most numerous 'B' set was the flat ended E147, over 50 pairs. 

 

The second most common was the bow ended E140 with 7ft bogies (I make it 41 pairs).  This is the diagram made by Airfix/Hornby.  It is also the type that appears most often in photos on the Bodmin-Wadebridge-Padstow branch.

 

E145 was the third most common (25 pairs, I think) and as said elsewhere was the same as E140 apart from having 9ft bogies.  

 

The were only minimal numbers of other 'B' set diagrams, E116 (7 sets), E129 (5 sets) and E135 (2 sets).

 

Chris KT

 

 

[ELTEL]

Thanks guys 

 

I have decided for the time being to purchase a pair of the Hornby coaches of flea bay.

 

I will probably update the bogies etc in time and turn a blind eye to the guards window .

 

Ive got too many projects on to look at coach kits ( and lack of skills )

 

We will see what the future brings 

 

Terry 

[mdvle]

21 hours ago, ELTEL said:

I was perhaps hoping that a more accurate RTR might have been available, or new model was on the horizon.

 

Not so far, but for those that want to try and encourage one to be made Rapido have a product suggestion form

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product-suggestion/

 

I don't know if Accurascale are following it, but there is an idea thread on here for them

 

Other manufacturers may also have methods of suggestion, or now that shows may restart you can try suggesting in person.

Edited July 18, 2021 by mdvle

[McC]

We see all.