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Building an ex NER G5 0-4-4 Tank from a London Road Models 4mm kit


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On 14/02/2021 at 10:53, [email protected] said:

The build is looking really great, I've been too busy with Barnard Castle to progress my LRM G5 in the last few weeks. I thought you were building 67286, have you had a change of mind?

 

Hi,

 

Yes painted number has changed. Further research with people that knew Ray suggest that 67305 was his favourite loco. 305 was based at Darlington and seems to have been used on the Bank Top to North Road shuttle as well as other services I'm sure. There is also a picture of Ray's layout Tees Castle and the G5 model running is 305!

 

Build is going well but the hopper bunker is a bit of a devil due to the design obscuring area that you want to use a soldering iron on!!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS Thanks to all for the kind comments.

Edited by 30368
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Picture update - I have really struggled with the extender bunker/hopper assembly! I have used a combination of solder and where I really could not get access - superglue. I did consider assembling the hopper and then fitting it to the body but this perhaps was a greater risk if minor adjustments were necessary - it is really difficult to de-solder without making a mess. Cab interior has advanced, there is a locker above the coal shute and this has been added.

 

Cab interior

1934412986_003(2).JPG.861b841c9e0a128441e1bb2db383660e.JPG

 

That "nasty" bunker. Needs cleaning up following soldering. Lots of additional rivet detail added to hopper since it is such a feature on the prototype.

203249424_002(2).JPG.580c57300ecb3985d34b8162e2c89f4e.JPG

 

The cursing will reduce now....until the next time!

 

Boiler fittings fitted.

510984501_004(2).JPG.6e95be6ca2788909c9f48994866b31bd.JPG

 

Just had delivery of a selection of Markits LNER ross pop safety valves item M4SftyV2 (Fat Ross Pop) seems to be the correct item judging by drawings and images.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Hello Richard, 

Not sure if you've been warned already (I've only just come across this thread and haven't read it all yet), but the LRM kit supplies a strip of beading to go along the front edge of the cab and down on to the tank tops; ignore this: no G5 ever had this beading.

 

A curiosity of your loco is that it had some odd bracing or strapping added to the outside of the tank and cab side (not to be confused with LRM's beading) when shopped in the late 1940s: it's just about discernible in the photo of it with "British Railways" on the tanks on page 1 of the thread, and more clearly in this crop from a photo sent to me by Mick Nicholson: 

 

866355397_G5detail.PNG.442a5e727f87972fa5b81313c27fff91.PNG

 

It was fitted to both sides of the loco. However, it seems to have disappeared by the time it got the early crest. I'm not sure what period you are modelling the loco.  

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1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

Hello Richard, 

Not sure if you've been warned already (I've only just come across this thread and haven't read it all yet), but the LRM kit supplies a strip of beading to go along the front edge of the cab and down on to the tank tops; ignore this: no G5 ever had this beading.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks very much for the info, a great help since it confirms my own thoughts.

Regarding the tank top beading, I agree, no evidence of it in any of the images apart from the supporting loop for the handrail at the end of the tank.

 

The rivet detail in the image is interesting. The curved section follows the internal curved "splashers" which are a feature of the cab interior so at some stage snap head rivets were used to secure but, as you say, in later images CSK rivets are used so the rivet heads vanish. 67305 will be modelled mid 1950's when shedded at Darlington.

 

There is though an angled riveted strip at the base of the tank and bunker - it doesn't show up that well - I am in two minds about adding this detail since it will be very hard to get a very thin flat section with rivet detail that doesn't look a mess!

 

Very lucky that we have a lot of images of the G5's (popular engines then?) and in particular, 305.

 

Thanks again, kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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The angled rivetted strip, at the base of the tank and bunker seems to have been a feature of almost all ex NER tank locomotives. I've seen it on close up photos of other ex NER tank locos. The attached photo of the rear of an A8 also shows the same thing and gives an idea of depth and thickness. However, this photo, while showing the strip, does not show any rivets.

 

Great job you've done on the G5 bunker cage and hopper; t'aint easy!! The air in my workshop hasn't fully lost its blue tinge - even after all this time - from doing those bunker cages. Though the burns to the fingers have healed nicely!

 

Regards

 

MIke

 

A8 69852 South Dock.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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4 hours ago, mikemeg said:

The angled rivetted strip, at the base of the tank and bunker seems to have been a feature of almost all ex NER tank locomotives.

 

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the info - I am still not certain I will fit the angled strip - I think that it is riveted its just that they are CSK rivets.

 

Yes the hopper bunker is a swine - I called my etch some very crude things!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Continued with the cab today and marked out and drilled boiler/smokebox for vacuum pipe and handrails. The vacuum ejector pipe from smokebox to cab is such a feature of these loco's. I really am enjoying this build despite the very blue air at times.

 

Handrail and vacuum pipe holes drilled.

627585079_001(2).JPG.2fead2225d6ac2adec6fcabed4f69fe0.JPG

 

Cab front soldered into position so that vacuum ejector pipe can be fitted accurately. Sorry about the poor snapshot!

612973149_002(2).JPG.b4d9a6c897e14644b371ade386b38366.JPG

 

Some of the smaller cab parts - the ecxcellent Branchlines drivers brake valve which on this loco is mounted on the cab side sheet. Also the fairly complex reverser mechanism which is mostly scratch built.

376062674_004(2).JPG.d2d3f4a0a973f6921c615b5aef19a7fc.JPG

 

Kind regards and thanks for all the interest and help,

 

Richard B

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59 minutes ago, 30368 said:

the angled strip

Yes, it's the angle iron attaching tanks/cab/bunker to the footplate. Arthur K put it on a scratchbuilt G5 many years ago, putting us all to shame. I've considered doing it with a transfer before the topcoat - BR orange-black-orange boiler bands would be the right width. There's a similar angle iron at the top of the cab sides where they are joined to the roof. That one I do put on, using 4 thou by 0.62mm copper strip from Hobby holidays - photo of the packaging here in case anyone wants to order: 

    

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Most NER tank locos had a 2" angle joining tank to footplate. I have added this feature to several of my scratch built locos. From  memory I used 0.5mm angle for this. (obtainable  from Eileen's Emporium).

 

ArthurK

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6 hours ago, 30368 said:

Continued with the cab today and marked out and drilled boiler/smokebox for vacuum pipe and handrails. The vacuum ejector pipe from smokebox to cab is such a feature of these loco's. I really am enjoying this build despite the very blue air at times.

 

Handrail and vacuum pipe holes drilled.

627585079_001(2).JPG.2fead2225d6ac2adec6fcabed4f69fe0.JPG

 

Cab front soldered into position so that vacuum ejector pipe can be fitted accurately. Sorry about the poor snapshot!

612973149_002(2).JPG.b4d9a6c897e14644b371ade386b38366.JPG

 

Some of the smaller cab parts - the ecxcellent Branchlines drivers brake valve which on this loco is mounted on the cab side sheet. Also the fairly complex reverser mechanism which is mostly scratch built.

376062674_004(2).JPG.d2d3f4a0a973f6921c615b5aef19a7fc.JPG

 

Kind regards and thanks for all the interest and help,

 

Richard B

 

 

NER Vacuum fitted locos used the Dreadnought brake valve. This was a complex unit. The Vacuum ejector pipe  from the smokebox entered this though the cab front sheet. There was a second smaller steam pipe from this unit to a manifold on the firebox. Sometimes this pipe was external from the shoulder of the firebox and entered the cab  about 6" above the ejector pipe.

 

I have the Dreadnought in my range of castings. 

 

ArthurK

Edited by ArthurK
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12 hours ago, ArthurK said:

NER Vacuum fitted locos used the Dreadnought brake valve.

 

Hi Arthur,

 

Thanks for the really useful advice. I have some good images of the cab interior.

 

1680691062_014467248cabDuns10-07-50(CJBSanderson)198.jpg.3a2690336031cb7ae902d68236cdb363.jpg

 

This shows the vacuum pipe entering the cab top R/H and then to the manifold on top of the firebox. I have fitted the pipe and terminated just inside the cab with a 14BA nut to connect to the copper "pipe" running across to the manifold (That looks like the Vacuum Gauge just above the pipe). I have fitted a drivers brake valve to the cab sidesheet but would be happy to replace with a "Dreadnought" - what an evocative name? HMS Dreadnought's appearance in1906 revolutionised capital ship design and many other companies, making all sorts of kit, used the Dreadnought name to enhance their products.

 

Anyway, I will buy a couple of valves from you please send details in a PM.

 

Kind regards and thanks again,

 

Richard B

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Hi Richard,

 

So many pipes! The Dreadnought Valve is the thing silhouetted in the right cab window. The gadget above the right cab opening is the Westinghouse brake valve. This was retained for those locos that retained air-brakes for loco and /or train.

For comparison I offer a photo of the preserved J21 taken whilst at Marley Hill.

 

246820477_Book9072006.jpg.40203a181f3331715084242112e7780a.jpgThe Exhaust pipe to the smokebox is Lower right behind the mounting bracket. The main body is at centre, Unfortunately  the operating lever is  out of shot.

 

There are excellent cab views in Ken Hoole's book "An illustrated history of NER locomotives".

 

ArthurK

 

 

Edited by ArthurK
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18 hours ago, ArthurK said:

Most NER tank locos had a 2" angle joining tank to footplate. I have added this feature to several of my scratch built locos. From  memory I used 0.5mm angle for this. (obtainable  from Eileen's Emporium).

 

Thanks Arthur, I have ordered a slection of brass angle from Eileen's, thanks for the tip.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS Ken Hoole's book on order.

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Today's update - worked on the tank filler's and the clips that secure them - some very tiny scratch built parts. Handrails fitted on boiler/smokebox sides. Those eagle eyed will notice that the leading wheel is not in contact with the track - due to trailing wheel compensation issue - the gearbox idler shaft just fouls the boiler preventing movement - easily solved.

 

 

001 (2).JPG

002 (2).JPG

 

1183323434_003(2).JPG.0fd0653983b727baaad65e0f97f9b1cf.JPG

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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With today's progress I guess the build is closer to the finish than the start. Cab detail is about complete and the chassis is running in now that additional weight has been added - lead embossed to look like the two internal cylinders from the front.

Running as a chassis or with thebody on it runs best as a 4-4-0, which is good given it is push-pull fitted, but will add further balancing weights to improve traction further.

 

Chassis runs from very low speed. All that brake gear to fit soon.

1552565020_003(2).JPG.e94feac30ec67f06261399a00f12ffde.JPG

 

Fairly pleased with cab details.

1083916540_001(2).JPG.7492191fba4f34319d39ef5047672667.JPG

 

37174174_002(2).JPG.f35258bdf590369a526bf59bcc626297.JPG

 

2073406603_004(2).JPG.8e8d3771558395debe0c9ba2310a724b.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Spent much of today's time dealing with lack of traction when pulling with drivers leading. My test track does have a bit of an incline but much wheel spinning initially with two Bulleid coaches. Front of boiler is now stuffed with lead and added some to the frame too. This improved matters and she will pull three Bulleid* coaches from a standing start up hill. Pushing is no problem and I suspect on more level track things will improve further. Four coupled wheels not as good as six - as in prototypes.

 

More detail added - cab roof just temp fit.

356984003_002(2).JPG.5e594b07cf08142ab12f060cb3dbe8fe.JPG

 

Thanks David - From drawings and images those fitted looked to be best fit but will take a look at Brassmaster item.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

* Sorry LNER Coaches packed away - even SR layout need ex LNER coaches for those trains from the NE!

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Much work on adapting some Alan Gibson castings for Vacuum Push - Pull as fitted to LNWR locos. Brass angle for base of side and well tank has arrived from Eileens Emporium so thanks for the suggestion Arthur.

 

1300437852_002(2).JPG.eeb07857aea4aa6b259da7d9c85fb6af.JPG

 

 

471675555_004(2).JPG.1be05f6b9f5003937fc4c9adf848144e.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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The Push-Pull fitted G5's had a very busy bufferbeam! Not only 2 vacuum pipes and a steam heat pipe but the RCH lighting trip and set cables/supports and conduits. There won't be much space for red paint!

 

Conduit passes into cab to, I assume, the trip and set switch. Tanks side looks very rough, it is fairly smooth! Will polish up before etching primer applied.

763293914_001(2).JPG.e25d06dce7598938e20f6cd2a81c4eb3.JPG

 

Front buffer beam has most components fitted. Still needs trip/set conduit and cables for connection to coaches and under bufferbeam pipework to vacuum hoses.

1491546927_002(2).JPG.3f27ddd8b62d1853c6d0bc973209dade.JPG

 

Camara is very cruel!!

1159449105_003(2).JPG.0bd3cf81d71b0cd2f5c76623051062e2.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Brake gear today - fairly complex set up - need to make sure brake cylinder is positioned correctly! Etched parts are nicely made and fit together well.

 

Handbrake operating lever still to fit.

538454786_001(2).JPG.4f69d7c285150e337e95d65e201a1291.JPG

 

Detail a bit clearer in this shot, 30777 looks on in the background.

324534929_002(2).JPG.7ff549cd8ed506ae6e37e9080f035dd6.JPG

 

The very fine angled sections fitted to the base of the sidetanks seem to have caught the light in a way that suggests rivets - in fact - these are extrusion markes.

1283803170_003(2).JPG.69f9999f8fee5637b08aafb7b1fa42ae.JPG

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Hi Jack,

 

The reversing lever end attached to the valvegear is made of scrap brass bits. The drivers mechanism is a combination of LRM parts and scrap brass parts with the wheel from an old etch. I suppose most lever reversers at the valve gear end look alike.

 

The drivers end is an imperfect representation of the prototype but as close as I can get it!

330408979_001(2).JPG.b1742a6f960cf051e246bdfcf216935c.JPG

 

The real thing.

1558738191_1641-11643-11647-11648-1G5ReversinggearDarlingtonScrapyard1957-8(JWArmstrong35mm)386.jpg.ef1844db61fc805863f22d0d7ce41f08.jpg

 

Valve gear end

1794901460_003(2).JPG.bd9928338cbbfc13404877892bb0990b.JPG

 

As you know I have a scratch built an 0395 - an early effort so don't judge too harshly!

609280823_004(2).JPG.6fce039f82d5a6d0ab884b4395a09bf6.JPG

 

Sorry, a poor picture.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

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Richard,

 

The DJH 0395 is not the best proportioned model, unfortunately scratchbuilding is the only option at the moment. However, a few more early SR models are trickling through the system. Thanks for sharing the build of the G5

 

StaySafe

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11 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

The reverser is interesting  does that mean it could be used like a lever or a screw type? 

 

Yes, the lever moves the reversing rod and the screw moves the lever. convenience of the lever and finesse of the screw.

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