Rolling stock card kits?

[Reptilian Feline]

I read that there used to be card kits for wagons and carriages and even locos. I'm the odd one who wants to build British outline in Z-scale, and I have found that my only option for proper looking houses that fit a WW2 setup, is to download, rescale and print my own.

 

When I read that something similar at least used to be available for rolling stock, I got excited. I wanted to find some. So, I ended up here.

 

I haven't printed anything yet, and I have no used Märklin rolling stock or locos yet, so I'm open to making it in 1:220 or figure out what true British Z-scale would be. Rescaling is rescaling and if I'm not going to dress up a German steam loco to look like it would fit an LMS line, then I can go either way. I'm not really bothered about it not being properly prototypical in scale, just as long as the rest is proper.

 

There seem to have been books available as well. If I can find such a book, I can scan it and rescale it to fit as well.

 

Any help is appreciated. 

[mike morley]

If I remember rightly, Peco Wonderful Wagons were pre-printed and embossed card overlays to go on die-cast metal bodies.  They were discontinued many years ago but, like conventional kits, the kind of thing people might well have squirrelled away in their "To Do" stash.

[009 micro modeller]

Are Alphagraphix still going?

[mike morley]

Good question.  Don't know.  The never did have an internet presence and I dont recall seeing their stand at any shows for a couple of years before lockdown.

[MikeTrice]

Have a look for Micromodels on ebay and via google.

[Marshall5]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Are Alphagraphix still going?

Roger had a stand at Leigh in April 2019.  Try e-mailing him sirberkeley@outlook.com

Ray.

[009 micro modeller]

4 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

Roger had a stand at Leigh in April 2019.  Try e-mailing him sirberkeley@outlook.com

Ray.

 

That’s useful to know, and yes I vaguely  remembered that they didn’t have an online presence. Not sure if it helps the OP though as they would need to actually buy kits, scan and reduce.

[Reptilian Feline]

10 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

That’s useful to know, and yes I vaguely  remembered that they didn’t have an online presence. Not sure if it helps the OP though as they would need to actually buy kits, scan and reduce.

It might be hard to buy from someone who usually only sells things at shows. Also... with brexit looming, who knows if it's even going to be possible to get anything without it costing double in postage compared to what the item might cost.

[andyman7]

In the early 70s, Trix offered some card kits to make Greseley teak coaches; and Hamblings was well known for its range of lithographed papers for various items of rllings stock, designed to be used round carved wooden formers.

[BernardTPM]

There were he mixed media Kenline kits too, part card, part cast metal.

[009 micro modeller]

46 minutes ago, Reptilian Feline said:

It might be hard to buy from someone who usually only sells things at shows. Also... with brexit looming, who knows if it's even going to be possible to get anything without it costing double in postage compared to what the item might cost.

 

Where are you based? Edit: just saw that you’re in Sweden. As far as I know, Alphagraphix is still based in the UK, although some of the prototypes are Irish railways. As far as I understand it, ‘no web presence’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘only sells at shows’ - they definitely used to do mail order by SAE or arranging things over the phone (this is also potentially difficult from outside the UK though, even without Brexit). The problem that I can see is that, because they are printed card rather than downloadable, you might have to actually buy the kit just to scan and rescale it.

Edited December 24, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Reptilian Feline said:

It might be hard to buy from someone who usually only sells things at shows. Also... with brexit looming, who knows if it's even going to be possible to get anything without it costing double in postage compared to what the item might cost.

Well, a card kit is not going to break the bank with postage.  Consider it the penalty you have to pay for the convenience, as sort of, um, delivery charge (I may not have thought that through fully).  I have already been in the situation of ordering an item online that cost more in postage than the item, but I needed it and that was what I had to pay to get it.  If you are comparing online ordering to buying at shows, which were the only outlet for many of the more left field items in pre-internet days, you have to factor in the cost of travelling to, entering, and subsisting at, the relevant show.  Back in the day, Bristol was my nearest for really off the wall stuff that I'd otherwise have to mail order.

[009 micro modeller]

28 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Well, a card kit is not going to break the bank with postage.  Consider it the penalty you have to pay for the convenience, as sort of, um, delivery charge (I may not have thought that through fully).  I have already been in the situation of ordering an item online that cost more in postage than the item, but I needed it and that was what I had to pay to get it.  If you are comparing online ordering to buying at shows, which were the only outlet for many of the more left field items in pre-internet days, you have to factor in the cost of travelling to, entering, and subsisting at, the relevant show.  Back in the day, Bristol was my nearest for really off the wall stuff that I'd otherwise have to mail order.

 

Agreed - lots of the more niche suppliers are only accessible at shows or by post. Since @Reptilian Feline is in Sweden, there probably wouldn’t be an opportunity to buy from Alphagraphix at shows even in normal circumstances as they don’t really attend shows outside the UK. But I’m not even sure Alphagraphix would be of any use for this - certainly they don’t do Z gauge kits so it would be a case of scanning and reducing.

[Reptilian Feline]

The thing about ready printed kits, is that they are usually very good for assembly (I only have experience with Metcalf kits) but might not always be so good for scanning. Books are easier to scan because there are not pre-cut edges.

 

British outline isn't popular in Sweden, no matter what scale, even though we do get the railway modelling magazines. I think it is because most people used to do local places for their models and Märklin and Fleishmann have a large range in H0 and N, and many German setups can easily(ish) be made into something Swedish. It probably has to do with track width.

 

What I'm also a bit curious about, is how you go about fixing the wheels and couplings on card kits. I know it's possible to buy spare wheels, but they have to be... connected? somehow to the undercarriage. Where the old kits paper only, even down to the wheels? Older wagons have some very interesting spoked wheels.

[sagaguy]

On 24/12/2020 at 00:35, Reptilian Feline said:

I read that there used to be card kits for wagons and carriages and even locos. I'm the odd one who wants to build British outline in Z-scale, and I have found that my only option for proper looking houses that fit a WW2 setup, is to download, rescale and print my own.

 

When I read that something similar at least used to be available for rolling stock, I got excited. I wanted to find some. So, I ended up here.

 

I haven't printed anything yet, and I have no used Märklin rolling stock or locos yet, so I'm open to making it in 1:220 or figure out what true British Z-scale would be. Rescaling is rescaling and if I'm not going to dress up a German steam loco to look like it would fit an LMS line, then I can go either way. I'm not really bothered about it not being properly prototypical in scale, just as long as the rest is proper.

 

There seem to have been books available as well. If I can find such a book, I can scan it and rescale it to fit as well.

 

Any help is appreciated. 

These are Micromodel cards,they could possibly be scanned and reduced.I do have nearly the full sets of cards.Let me know.

 

                        Ray.

[PatB]

Given that, for British Z, you're going to have to make or modify pretty much everything you need, it might be worth considering mastering some free drawing software and creating your own "kits". If you can befriend someone with a laser cutter you can even avoid long hours with a scalpel and bandaged fingers. 

 

It seems a longwinded way of going about things, but, as I'm finding as I develop my skills with QCad (free download), drawing stuff up is quite a satisfying hobby in itself. 

[Reptilian Feline]

1 hour ago, PatB said:

Given that, for British Z, you're going to have to make or modify pretty much everything you need, it might be worth considering mastering some free drawing software and creating your own "kits". If you can befriend someone with a laser cutter you can even avoid long hours with a scalpel and bandaged fingers. 

 

It seems a longwinded way of going about things, but, as I'm finding as I develop my skills with QCad (free download), drawing stuff up is quite a satisfying hobby in itself. 

I'm pretty good at making things in Inkscape and Gimp, and am using both for tweaking and scaling buildings.  If I have access to blueprints/ construction drawing with proper scale printed on them, I probably could make small models using Inkscape. I don't know anyone with a laser cutter, but I came across "printers" that cut after SVG-files when looking into making my own punch cards for my knitting machine.

[Michael Hodgson]

 

A friend in the Isle of Man produced these items for his own layout but is also making them available for sale, they and other rolling stock are available in O & OO gauges, also some tramway and O scale narrow gauge stock and a few buildings in card. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-Gauge-railway-card-kits-Babbedge-and-HInkley-coal-wagons-G-KER-salt-vans-O-kit/254464494217?hash=item3b3f440a89:g:uZkAAOSwdGFYu0kG

[5050]

Tony Collett used to supply 4mm scale card printed private owner wagons sides and ends.  Long out of production but they may turn up on e-bay perhaps.

[zarniwhoop]

On 24/12/2020 at 23:04, Reptilian Feline said:

What I'm also a bit curious about, is how you go about fixing the wheels and couplings on card kits. I know it's possible to buy spare wheels, but they have to be... connected? somehow to the undercarriage. Where the old kits paper only, even down to the wheels? Older wagons have some very interesting spoked wheels.

If you are going to make them as static items, then I suppose you might be able to use card for the wheels (I know nothing about paper-based kits, but I assume they were either "scratch aid" (i.e. make your own underframe/bogies or axleboxes) or designed for available chassis from existing r-t-r items.

 

I know very little about 6.5mm gauge, but I assume you are going to have a hard job running anything which doesn't fit on an available chassis and you'll have to use whatever wheel size(s) are available for rolling stock. Unless you are a model engineer, that raises a bigger problem - finding available chassis for british-style locos. All I've ever seen in Z is german-based, and steam locomotives from germany are somewhat unlike most british locos. For 1960s or later diesels, perhaps do-able - but for pre-nationlisation much harder.

 

OK, you could come up with some 'British Z" scale which might help a little, but I'd be dubious about the running qualities and indeed the appearance. 1:200 would be similar in relative sizing to 00, but it only buys you 10% in terms of dimensions - a 57' coach would want a 19.1 metre chassis, a 10' wheelbase wagon about 3.35 metre wheelbase (just over 15mm in 1:220). Not trying to discourage you, but it sounds like a lot of work with many compromises and I suspect many people would not find the result acceptable.

 

Of course, if you are a model engineer then get the lathe out to produce the wheels. Perhaps someone in germany does actually produce a range of wheels and similar for more-realistic modelling of (german) Z stock ?

[Reptilian Feline]

Rokuhan makes some chassis that might work for early diesel shunters, and I did a search a while back that pulled up some interesting alternatives, but of course I can't remember exactly what I was searching for when I found it.

 

I think making the wagons and coaches look OK with card kits using the basic wheels provided by Märklin might work. To my untrained eye, it's the distance between the wheel sets that looks off comparing German to British.

 

The layout is for my pleasure, but I'd like to be able to post pictures and videos of it without people laughing at me.

[009 micro modeller]

Can anyone remember what was used for the British Z gauge ‘Aldeburgh’?

 

Taking a slightly different tack, what era/location are you thinking of modelling? I’m just wondering whether T gauge is also an option. On one hand British T seems to have taken off in a much bigger way than British Z did, on the other hand it’s even smaller and steam prototypes could be an issue.

[Reptilian Feline]

I'm modelling fictional Yorkshire 1942-1945. You see, I want some spitfires and "Dad's Army" and the diversity of rolling stock in a mostly branch line rural setting with lots of grass and rolling hills.

 

I've read about T-scale in Railway Modeller. It seems almost too small, but if there is enough to work with, it would be an option to consider.

[PatB]

Changing the wheelbase of 4 wheel wagons shouldn't be that hard. Remove German body, saw appropriate segment out of middle of chassis, rejoin remaining ends using styrene sheet splint, add printed card representation of British  van or open body, and Bob's your male relative. You'd probably need to carve off the decidedly Germanic brake gear too. If you're brave, you might be able to fabricate a replacement from wire. Personally, I probably wouldn't bother in Z. Much larger scales got away without it in the past and still managed to give a good overall impression. 

 

Coach chassis can also be similarly shortened. The bogies will be wrong but, again, it's Z. Is anyone really going to notice without a magnifying glass?

 

Steam locos may be more of a problem. Minitrix got away with German chassis under British bodies in N, long ago, so you might be OK, but you're going to have to build the bodies yourself, or maybe draw them up for 3D printing. Diesels are likely to be much easier (it's notable that the limited amount of Z that isn't German tends to be diesel era). You sure you can't be tempted to bring the date forward 25 years and update Dad's Army to being the local Civil Defence instead? 

[Reptilian Feline]

I want WW2 with all the quirks of no road signs, taped up windows, and so on. The number of different wagons I can run, and the setups of the trains, I just love the idea of it. I know it's bonkers to want to model something like that in a scale that doesn't really exist, but I love to make things and solve problems, so I'm not put off by the difficulties.

 

Boogies and wheels can be bought separately as well (they are spare parts I guess) and then finding an 0-6-0 steam engine and putting a British shell on it (unless only a little need to change from the German version) should probably help a lot.

 

I think I can get away with a lot of adaptations... as you say, PatB, it's Z, and on a branch line anything old goes. No need for a fancy Flying Scotsman.