Do all Panniers sound the same? (DCC Sound Question)

[Guest WM183]

Hi all!

I have a pair of 0 gauge pannier tanks, a Dapol 57xx with factory DCC sound and Real drive and all installed, and a 74xx with a regular vanilla decoder - and not a great one at that. I want to install a sound decoder in my 74xx - it is 21 pin ready for DCC sound, with provision for a speaker inside. Who sells a decoder for this, and do I need to "install" sound or does it come loaded on the decoder? I have installed loads of decoders in everything from N scale steam to 0 gauge diesels, but never one with sound before, so I know nothing about it.

Also, do all panniers "sound the same"? I know there must be some difference, but does a decoder for 57xx sounds sound the same as one for a 74xx, as for a 1500, etc?

Thanks much,

 

Amanda

[charliepetty]

They have different sized boilers & boiler pressures, no definatly not.

[ColinK]

I don’t know about the sound, but they all look the same to me 

[Harlequin]

Ideally you want the sound project to be based on a recording of the relevant class of pannier tank but if you can’t get one then another pannier would probably be the closest match and very few people would be able to tell the difference.

Then there’s the question of sound quality. The project that sounds the best might not be the “correct” pannier sound for the model - and that’s a subjective judgement only you can make.

 

 

[jcm@gwr]

1 hour ago, charliepetty said:

They have different sized boilers & boiler pressures, no definatly not.

 

Plus different sized wheels and pistons (including stroke),

not to mention different types of valve gear.

[scafellpike]

HI, This is a really interesting question.  Not all Pannier tanks sound the same as different classes have been designed for the tasks they perform and so have different size boilers, cylinders valves smoke-boxes and wheel diameter.  Even locos of the same class can sound different as wear and tear takes its toll in everyday use.  For example a newly built loco would have a nice clear whistle , whilst its classmate after a year or two in service could have a whistle that hisses and splutters.   With the pannier tanks I have a number of different ones from a 1366 through 5700-8750,6400 and 9400. all with different sounds the 6400  being of special interest as it has a WheeltappersDCCsounds decoder with Autotrailer sounds that can be switched on or off at will.  Of the  5700 and 8795s I have 5 all with slightly different sounds some with crisp out of works condition whistles others with a slight hiss.   I hope this helps.    

[Nigelcliffe]

Add to the above;  all modern recordings are done on preserved examples, almost all recordings are on lines with quite low speed limits, and the owners of the preserved locos don't want them abused.   So, its a modern recording of a loco which is over 50 years since it was in actual service, run in circumstances which don't reflect how they were when in service.   The recording is taken in a particular place (eg. microphone strapped to footplate).  The sounds heard 100 yards away over a field might be a bit different, with some elements not heard with the observer stood further away.  
In service, two examples of a given type of loco will sound different, due to wear & tear, and how each was being fired and driven. 

And beware period films of engines;  the pictures might be of the correct engine, but the sounds are often something else entirely.  

 

So, what's "right" ?   Difficult to say, other than getting glaringly obvious stuff correct such as whistles, appropriate pumps present or absent, etc..   
When installing a decoder, different speakers, and speaker installation methods, results in different sounds:  something I've used deliberately when installing sound chips in a pair of locos, each examples of the same class of loco.  By using different speakers, the two locos sound slightly different which may be more "right" than "wrong" (we'll never know as the locos were scrapped a long time ago, and there are no known sound recordings of them, so the whole thing is informed guesswork).   

 

- Nigel

[Jeremy Cumberland]

How good are your ears?

 

I can tell a three cylinder locomotive from a two cylinder one easily enough and the number of beats per distance travelled is a function of wheel diameter, but the most obvious differences in exhaust sound are between different blastpipe arrangements and whether the valves are properly adjusted.

 

Apart from that, I cannot distinguish between such things as slide and piston valves, type of valve gear (Stephenson's and Walschaert's, at any rate), valve travel, cylinder diameter and stoke, boiler pressure or whether a locomotive is superheated or not. I really cannot see what difference boiler size makes at all.

 

57xx and 74xx classes both had 4' 7½ wheels and of course both were two-cylinder, and I expect they both had similar blastpipes, so I doubt I could tell the difference. Of course, there would be differences between individual locomotives within a class, as others have said.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Jeremy C

[Gordon A]

Also differing boiler pressures and how hard the loco is working will effect the sound.

[Guest WM183]

Hi all.

Thanks very much for the feedback. It makes sense that different boiler pressures (and pressure at a given time) along with different stroke distances would impact sound and cadence. Can anyone recommend a dealer of a decoder in that case? I like the momentum and all of my 57xx decoder very much.

Amanda

[Harlequin]

Youchoos can usually be relied upon:

https://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Shop.php?L1=Project&Item=GWR94XX

(Recording of 9466)

 

[charliepetty]

If its ESU Decoders you need, then give this a look:

From Wheeltappers or DC Kits:

https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=88_266&product_id=1711

Edited December 27, 2020 by charliepetty

[scafellpike]

Hi, After many years of installing sound decoders in locomotives I have settled on 2 suppliers  www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk for my steam locos and legomanbiffo for my mainline diesels.  Both have been very helpful and are willing to tweak sounds to suit individual requirements.  On the Wheeltappers site you also have an index of locomotive types with a description of their design and work, very useful. I have installed 2 6400 sound decoders from Wheeltappers both recorded from preserved examples. The 7400s  are identical in every way apart from not being auto-train fitted.  I suggest you get in touch with them for advice.   As one person has said the subject is esoteric, so just tell them your exact needs.  

[FSB]

Many GW locos sound very similar. For that reason South West Digital group their GW sounds. So their group 1 sound is very appropriate for most pannier tanks and other small GW locos. Various varieties of pannier tanks (and others) will sound slightly different. Also two or more locos of the same class will sound different to each other. This is the nature of the steam loco. Try using different speakers and maybe in different positions - that will give subtley different versions of what is essentially the same sound. I have done this in both 7mm and 4mm panniers.